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Did God Abandon Us?

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posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

The artist formerly known as god?
Have you ever read leviathan? That is my favourite description of "it".




posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: MrBlaq
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Apparently you've decided not to read my response also,
or you would have read how NONE of those characters
he posted will spend eternity in hell or a lake of fire.

I can only assume there's a comprehension issue, since
my post explained the exact opposite of what he posted.

Death is NOT permanent, try reading, you might just learn something.





Sorry. Guess my little peon brain isn't as good at understanding what I read as you.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Peeple


Have you ever read leviathan

The book by Hobbes? I haven't read it but I have heard of it. Do you recommend it?



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: Peeple
No, it isn't just a change in name.

Not sure which leviathan your talking about.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: pthena

That depends, it's ancient but I consider it to be still valuable. It's mostly a description of the state working as a body. And the first chapter contains his, for his time, revolutionary description of god, the universe and everything.

Scratch that: a must read.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

Isn't Hobbes just making an argument for the god of the bible in that book?



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

No not really. He is basically philosophically explaining how every attempt to describe god has to be flawed. Why no human can speak for god, because he is beyond our imagination.
The god of the bible is a justification for those in power.
That's a simplification. Maybe tomorrow I'll post a quote to show what I mean. Or dedicate this it's own thread. Look here or search leviathan.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

I'm not seeing any real description.

You said it was your favorite description. Since he is talking about the christian god, the lack of description means that the description in the bible applies and we are back at square one.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

If you got a leviathan at hands it's chapter 31,
You can't apply our definition of will, you can just describe what he's not, or just use indefinite terms, because all you know is he is, but beyond any space, time, or comprehensibleness.

Just read it again and it's pretty hard to translate I only got it in German. What really was the eye opener for me back then was that there is this ancient text, 1651 published and the description is far from what many people even today think it is. It made me understand that the nature of god is the nature of life, not here on earth or anywhere, but everywhere. It's cruel and beautiful, but just to the individual to life itself these terms don't make any sense.

Think about it if one tiny atom in the universe wouldn't be exactly where it is none of us would live. God is not conscious as we are, he is not "self aware", he doesn't have a plan or any of that he IS. Everything and everywhere.

That's why it's pretty pointless to argue about god, because even if you call him chance, it's still a miracle.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

That still is not a description of god. It's a cop out so you can claim he exists without backing it up.

Don't get me wrong I fully understand about something being impossible to describe still, it isn't a description of the thing.

Also my position is usually one of what "god" is not.


edit on 26-7-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Funny, we are on the same page from opposing angles? At least we can agree it's not an old man sitting on a cloud.
I could back it up, because you can feel him. Sit under a pretty tree, feel the sunshine listen to the birds and open your mind, the sensation of being a part of everything that's god.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: Peeple
Funny, we are on the same page from opposing angles? At least we can agree it's not an old man sitting on a cloud.

Yeah, but so can the christians and I doubt that that means that we are even close to agreeing about what/how god is.


I could back it up, because you can feel him. Sit under a pretty tree, feel the sunshine listen to the birds and open your mind, the sensation of being a part of everything that's god.

And there is the crux of the problem, according to the text book definition of "god", it is a being, the idea of an energy that just is and doesn't even know that it is doesn't fit the definition of god.

Then we have the fact that I can do all of the above and to me that isn't even close to some of the things I have experienced. They are mundane and not proof of god at all.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Well I don't know what you experienced, so how could I explain what it was?
Besides there are a few things I would hesitate to discuss here.
Just one thing, there are 7 heavens, each has its own guardian and all have their own "exams" before the gates open. Maybe you accidentally stumbled upon one of those?
But what you encounter there is not god.

Heaven might sound misleading. Keep in mind all in religion is a personality test. Much of it is about our subconscience.


edit on 26-7-2016 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Raggedyman




Faith begins as an experiment and ends as an experience.
William Ralph Inge

You can't argue with those which are firmly settled in their own omniscience.


What bothers me is the new atheist fundamentalist, as bad as the religious fundamentalist if not worse, many live in a moral vacuum.

Please take their battery's out



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm








Here you go TC

www.youtube.com...
edit on 26-7-2016 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Well they're on their own journey. Some go through hell during life. I only have to live with myself and am not responsible for their choices.
What annoys me is this judgmental mindset tough. No clue what they're talking about but screaming louder than their own mind.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: Peeple
Well I don't know what you experienced, so how could I explain what it was?

I'm not asking you to but still, the sensation of being a part of everything being god does not fit the dictionary definition of god and it doesn't do it for me personally either.


Heaven might sound misleading. Keep in mind all in religion is a personality test. Much of it is about our subconscience.

A test by who?
edit on 26-7-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
What bothers me is the new atheist fundamentalist, as bad as the religious fundamentalist if not worse, many live in a moral vacuum.

Please take their battery's out

Moral vacuum makes your point moot.



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

It does. "The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority. The supreme being."
Are you not part of the universe?
Who else would be interested in testing your personality?
Which part of you feels a need for morals to begin with?
Do you believe you have a soul? Would you define that soul as being, or part of the being which is you?



posted on Jul, 26 2016 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: TheChuckster




If there is a God could this be true? Are we all alone now? Why would it abandon us?

No, we are never alone.
You just have to reconnect with the creator is all.
It is not very hard to do, but most people don't do it.

How do you do it?
That I don't know for you,
only for me.

I choose to call "God" the universe.
An intelligence that flows through everything,
and is a part of everything.
SO for myself, it was just a matter of connecting with myself.
Finding yourself so to speak.

We all have times when we wonder why it has to be so subtle, why can't God just make things better...
But the reality is that we create what we experience,
and it is not up to God to fix what we mess up,
it is up to us.

The creator helps, if you connect to it,
but as saying goes, God helps those who help themselves.

It is just a matter of connecting with yourself and what you really are at your core.
But that is just my opinion,
and I have my own weird relationship with the creator.



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