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Russian Defense Minister Purges Baltic Fleet Command

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posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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The commander of Russia's Baltic Fleet has been sacked along with 50 or so officers. Purge of Baltic Flt Command



The Defense Ministry announced the purge in a terse statement late Wednesday. It said the fleet commander, Vice Adm. Viktor Kravchuk, his chief of staff, Rear Adm. Sergei Popov, and an undisclosed number of other senior officers of the fleets have been fired over serious flaws in combat training and their failure to take proper care of personnel.


The public nature of this purge is unusual. However we do know a few things and guessing as to what the problem is, is pretty easy. Putin over the last year has been visiting military commands and although publicly praising them he is likely seeing the results of massive corruption in the Russian military.

In May while visiting the Black Sea military district and being shown a new armored SUV build by a Russian company by the Commanding General the door handle fell off, and unable to open the door through the open window he had to crawl through the back. Putin loses handle on military inspection

One of the complaints was the Baltic Fleets officers family quarters that was in such bad shape part of it collapsed. Just last year a Russian Paratrooper barracks collapse killing 23 of them after it had been repaired. Also their seems to have been a lot fake reports on the condition and readiness of the fleet and the cover up of a submarine accident.

And here lies the problem. Corruption. It has been eating away at the Russian military for a long time. And it is often over looked to keep militray commanders loyal. They pocket money for construction, training, maintenance, weapons etc. and create fake reports pretending everything is great. They have even at times been caught creating fake soldiers to collect their pay. Putin has not been able to do much about it since many of these officers are allies. Up until now the Russian Navy was the one branch that seemed above all this. It was rare you heard about corruption being a real problem. In the second Georgia war where the Russian Army and Air Force were a mess, the Navy was the one service the West saw that performed its missions professionally.

For it's size the Russian Navy has always been underfunded but, has always been Russia most disciplined professional force. That the Baltic Fleet, the most important to Russia's defense is having accidents, poor training, low readiness and bad morale is a huge wake up call for Putin who had to come down hard and in public. To make it clear that this level of corruption is simply not acceptable.

With Russia's economic woes corruption is up as well. Members at all level of the military sell things on the black market. The entire Russian military needs reforms and a purge of its forces. Cut its size in half. Only use professional soldiers, no more conscripts. Heavy inspection and regulation of of funding, readiness, inventories, and training with a zero tolerance policy needs to be in place. A small well payed professional force would go a long way to fixing the problems they have. Of course those kinds of reforms could lead to a coup. So Putins options are limited. He has tried to reform them before and it failed. This purge is a good start. It also reveals that Russia does not expect any trouble with the West anytime soon.




posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Wow, that handle thing had to have pissed Putin off a bit.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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It also reveals that Russia does not expect any trouble with the West anytime soon.

The hell. He's focusing on the Back Sea Fleet for good reason. US is encroaching in that Russian lake, too.

That Putin is there personally taking charge and 'cleaning house' reveals that quite clearly.

NATO to remain in Black Sea
edit on 30-6-2016 by intrptr because: link


Edit:


With its own Black Sea Fleet operating out of Sevastopol, Russia views these maneuvers as the latest example of NATO’s eastward expansion. The alliance plans to station four new battalions in the Baltics and Poland, and has installed a new missile defense system in the region.

Any permanent stationing of a US warship in the waterway would be a violation of the Montreal Convention, which states that countries without a Black Sea coastline cannot keep military ships in the region for more than 21 days.

Another broken agreement, and the US complains about China occupying the South China sea. "Deterring Russian aggression", they been there for centuries. Who the hell does the US think they are?
edit on 30-6-2016 by intrptr because: Edit:



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr




It also reveals that Russia does not expect any trouble with the West anytime soon.

The hell. He's focusing on the Back Sea Fleet for good reason. US is encroaching in that Russian lake, too.

That Putin is there personally taking charge and 'cleaning house' reveals that quite clearly.


You do not purge your most important fleets officer corps if your expecting any kind of trouble. It will take a couple of years to fix the Baltic fleets problems and put in all new officers who have to change the culture. If your expecting trouble you do not do this. And Putin did not do this personally. He did visit the Baltic Fleet a few months ago and praised its performance. If he wanted to put his personal stamp on it he would have then. He left his to the Defense minister so that if their was any large push back from the military in general he could reverse the order, sack the Defense minister and say it was a bad decision as we was just there and on record as praising the fleet. The Russian political dance is always fun to watch.

Not sure why you talking about the Black Sea fleet, other than it really needs modernization which the Russians can not afford. Nor is it a Russian lake as NATO members Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey along with NATO friends Ukraine and Georgia make up most of the coast line of the Black Sea. Nor is a US Navy presence their new. In fact before Putin Russian and US Navy and NATO ships in the Black Sea conducted joint exercises. So you can toss that encroachment stuff out the window because history and previous Russian actions does not back that up.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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Culling that many "managers" equates to removing the Ghost TROJAN HORSE Division which exists within every Nation-State or group thereof.Yes...if trouble was looming he would 86 this many.Trump is going to win and IMHO 86 3x that many in the US military all branches....he will EXPOSE WHO PLANNED AND EXECUTED 9-11 ....England pulled away from the target co-ordinates...Russia is kicking her Tires and topping up her fuel tanks....mehinks someone in the EU is about to feel the Hammer of Justice descending upon their sensitive spots.






edit on 30-6-2016 by one4all because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
The hell. He's focusing on the Back Sea Fleet for good reason. US is encroaching in that Russian lake, too.


Oh, Lord. There are many nations that have Black Sea coastlines, including coastlines longer than Russia's. How can taking that small fact on board lead people to the confused conclusion that the Black Sea is Russian? Unfortunately Russia's actions have directly alienated most nations in the Black Sea.

Edit to add that I have pretty much repeated what MrSpad said! Should have read the whole thread!
edit on 30/6/2016 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: one4all

Stalin purged his generals rank before hostilities broke in WWII. The US done it too...

wiping the slate

It most certainly presages an expectation of higher tensions and a "you're either with me or you're out". Look at where the US is today. I bet most of those officers resisted being tools in the bid for Global Imperialism.

If Putin is taking a personal interest there its for the same reasons, only in his case, he's defending his own backyard.

And you're right... its folly to go against a military superpower, thousands of miles from your own turf.

Like I keep saying, hell is the impossibility of reason.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: paraphi


Should have read the whole thread!

I read you well enough. Jumping in on the warmonger side, as usual. NATO expansion into the Black Sea is unwarranted and a violation of established law.

Permanently positioning a US destroyer in the straits is a blocking maneuver on the part of NATO to keep Russian Naval elements out of the Mediterranean. The reason for that is obvious enough. Any interference in the Mediterranean by the Russians would hinder NATO's ongoing efforts to subjugate nations states in the Middle East like Syria and Iran. The goal of conquering those two countries in succession hasn't changed, just the ongoing BS has.

Though the rhetoric in the western press has subdued slightly, the over all goal hasn't changed. Waiting for Hillary in the white house to kick it off again.

Meanwhile, another cold war chess move in the Turkish straits:

Strategic importance of the Straits


The two gateways between the Black Sea and Mediterranean, the Dardanelles and Bosphorus, were very important as a trade route from the Black Sea into ports all over the world for Turkey and its other Black Sea neighbors: the USSR, Romania and Bulgaria, all three of which were militarily aligned.[3] The straits also served as an important component of military strategy; whoever wielded control of traffic through the straits could use them as an exit or entry point for naval forces to traverse to and from the Black Sea.

Now play dumb about NATO expansion.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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can you imagine Not being able to defend your self
becouse you can not open the Doors to yor tanks!
any one got a coat hanger?



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: one4all

Stalin purged his generals rank before hostilities broke in WWII. The US done it too...

wiping the slate

It most certainly presages an expectation of higher tensions and a "you're either with me or you're out". Look at where the US is today. I bet most of those officers resisted being tools in the bid for Global Imperialism.

If Putin is taking a personal interest there its for the same reasons, only in his case, he's defending his own backyard.

And you're right... its folly to go against a military superpower, thousands of miles from your own turf.

Like I keep saying, hell is the impossibility of reason.



Methinks 9-11 is the Donalds Intro but his "Big Show" will be his response to what is known by some as histories "Big Event".......IMHO the Kennedy history will soon be openly corrected....and this means a massive American Purge....its been facillitated slightly already but IMHO we will see a sudden LANDSLIDE action which will be Global-Reaching and involve multiple SuperPower Nations and their constituants.

When you have 300 bigger fish listed on legal documents facing billions upon billions of dollars in tax levies you can assume something bigger is on the move.....the peripheral support posts are being removed to break esprit de corps and incite panic and doubt.....

In reality there is simply to much data available online to the public for anyone to hide their tracks ....for example Hillarys connecions to Waco and the 3 ex-Secret Service who may have been sniped by Special Forces soldiers to possibly protect Hillarys position and Bills National Image ....one we all eventually learned of anyways.

To be frank Trump is a nerd with truculent ideas of nationalism and patriotism right and wrong which relfect an older more traditional hopefull forward moving thinking Boomer type of America and which are openly embraced oday....and he doesnt have anything to expose worth looking for....nothing worthy...so he is impervious to traditional attacks.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

And the USSR suffered greatly due to the Great Purge. Let's not forget the huge number of losses they experienced during the Winter War.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: intrptr

And the USSR suffered greatly due to the Great Purge. Let's not forget the huge number of losses they experienced during the Winter War.

That was because Hitler broke his agreement with them over Poland, remember? Hitler guaranteed Soviet sovereignty when he entered Poland, they made a deal to split the country and "thus far, no further". Like then as now, only a ruse, stalling time for Hitler to build for Operation Barbarossa

Think Russia 'buys it', this time?



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: one4all

Stalin purged his generals rank before hostilities broke in WWII. The US done it too...

wiping the slate

It most certainly presages an expectation of higher tensions and a "you're either with me or you're out". Look at where the US is today. I bet most of those officers resisted being tools in the bid for Global Imperialism.

If Putin is taking a personal interest there its for the same reasons, only in his case, he's defending his own backyard.

And you're right... its folly to go against a military superpower, thousands of miles from your own turf.

Like I keep saying, hell is the impossibility of reason.


Are you really dragging out the old Obama purged officers junk that has been debunked so many times that nobody even bother with it any more? Really? 200 out over 200 thousand? Obama Officer Purge Skeptoid

And Stalin purged the military in the 20's, 30's, during the war and after the war. Along with purging everybody else as well. T hat had nothing to do with military planning just being paranoid. Ironically and making your point moot many of the purged officers were brought back before the war broke out, 30% of them in fact, and more later after the war had started. Because purged are terrible for military reediness and can take years to recover from.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed in June of 1939 and lasted until 1941. The Winter War started in November 1939 and lasted until the following year. Germany breaking the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had nothing to do with the USSR's poor showing against Finland. It was entirely down to the purges of the previous three years crippling Russia's military.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

So whats the big deal your making from 'Putins Purge'?

More ridicule and discrediting the Russian military. You need to do that to justify war.

Hitler said once that Russia was teetering like a rotten barn, all he had to do was, 'kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure would cave in'. (paraphrased)

Isn't that what you just did in your OP?

History may not repeat but it does rhyme.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: paraphi


Should have read the whole thread!

I read you well enough. Jumping in on the warmonger side, as usual. NATO expansion into the Black Sea is unwarranted and a violation of established law.

Permanently positioning a US destroyer in the straits is a blocking maneuver on the part of NATO to keep Russian Naval elements out of the Mediterranean. The reason for that is obvious enough. Any interference in the Mediterranean by the Russians would hinder NATO's ongoing efforts to subjugate nations states in the Middle East like Syria and Iran. The goal of conquering those two countries in succession hasn't changed, just the ongoing BS has.

Though the rhetoric in the western press has subdued slightly, the over all goal hasn't changed. Waiting for Hillary in the white house to kick it off again.

Meanwhile, another cold war chess move in the Turkish straits:

Strategic importance of the Straits


The two gateways between the Black Sea and Mediterranean, the Dardanelles and Bosphorus, were very important as a trade route from the Black Sea into ports all over the world for Turkey and its other Black Sea neighbors: the USSR, Romania and Bulgaria, all three of which were militarily aligned.[3] The straits also served as an important component of military strategy; whoever wielded control of traffic through the straits could use them as an exit or entry point for naval forces to traverse to and from the Black Sea.

Now play dumb about NATO expansion.


LOL wait, wait so your saying that a single US destroyer that rotates out every 20 days is stopping the Russian Black Sea Fleet from entering the Med? When the Turks already control the straights? Not to mention the entire Turkish navy?

Maybe you never notice but the Russians do on occasion sail into the Med. Not often as it is hard to supply and pay to keep their ships out like that but, they do it and nobody stops them. Please enough with this nonsense. The US has always had a destroyer or more ships in the black sea because most of the black sea states are friends and allies. And in fact the Russians used to join the US in exercises there.

Not to mention the Russians are now making up with the Turks. It is always ironic how you seem to forget Russia was a NATO partner during its expansion, that it joined NATO exercises in the Baltic, Black sea and even in the US itself. And suddenly you try and change the narrative. That just is not going to jive with anybody who know history.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: MrSpad

So whats the big deal your making from 'Putins Purge'?

More ridicule and discrediting the Russian military. You need to do that to justify war.

Hitler said once that Russia was teetering like a rotten barn, all he had to do was, 'kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure would cave in'. (paraphrased)

Isn't that what you just did in your OP?

History may not repeat but it does rhyme.



The big deal is the one branch of service in Russia that had managed to remain professional and well disciplined is now being hurt by corruption as well. That is a bad thing because who knows what is being sold on the black market and to whom. Nobody needs to invade Russia or even wants to. It is a mess all unto itself. It is trying to play at being a world power with an economy the size of Mexico. It's military is bloated, mostly conscripts and rife with corruption. The biggest danger Russian presents to the West is if it collapses. The chaos that would bring is far worse than any war.

Nobody wants war. Not the West not the Russians. They easily could have had it if they wished. After the Soviet Union fell the US and Western countries payed to keep Russian's defense industry and nuclear weapons industry alive and gave Russia all these special positions like the G8 and Russia NATO Council to keep Russia from falling apart. Now I am saying the time may come when we have to do it again.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Finland has nothing to do with the Soviet German spilt of Poland. While Germany was invading from the West, the Soviets were doing the same thing from the East.

Germany got ever closer to the Russian border as a result, exactly what Hitler wanted. Now today, in a different manner, NATO is deploying its military along the Eastern Polish border with Russia. Like I said, you think Russia buys into the dogmatic, here and no further?

You don't think Russia is aware that for the first time since WWII there are Armored units under NATO's banner along its border? Anyone thinks they won't protect their security interests in this regard is a fool.


...rhetoric aside, the military preparations of the US and its allies are anything but defensive in nature.
In reality, the US and NATO forces massing on Russia’s border are part of preparations for a range of military and covert-intelligence operations directed against pro-Russian political factions and against the Putin government itself, aimed at destabilizing and overthrowing pro-Russian governments using the “hybrid warfare” methods employed by the Western powers during the 2014 coup in Ukraine and the 2011 US-backed insurgency in Syria.

NATOs increasing presence in Eastern Europe

When considered along wth expansion into the Baltics, the Black Sea, the coup in Ukraine, the Missile Defense Shield, its only too obvious who the real aggressor is.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

The topic is Putin purging part of his military. I brought up the Winter War as an example of what happened the last time Russia purged their military and then went to war. You're the one that tried to tie it in to Germany breaking the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. The Winter War was a massive blunder on the USSR's part and it directly stems from the Great Purge. It took until at least 1940 for their military to recover.

So, if Putin is as smart as he appears then he must think a war is not inevitable. If he did he wouldn't be purging key aspects of his military.

As for your comment about NATO being the aggressor... Who is it that has actually taken land through force?



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254


As for your comment about NATO being the aggressor... Who is it that has actually taken land through force?

NATO. Try being a citizen in any eastern Country and resisting NATO. Would you let Russian tanks deploy along Mexico border?, peacefully? He shows great restraint so far and tactical savvy. Look at Russias recent air strikes in Syria.

Just the right amount of force applied in just the right place.

But long term he is also aware that the longer NATO supply lines become the easier it will be to destroy them.

Come NATO, come... if you are really as stupid as you appear like Hitler, Alexander and Napoleon, come...


edit on 30-6-2016 by intrptr because: map



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