Orlando Nightclub Massacre

a reply to: RomeByFire


Great points and observations! Logically, we can only control what we understand. We understand and created Gun Manufacturing plants. We didn't create, and don't understand the human mind. So, if we're ready to start slowing down these gun murders, begin doing so at the places that we built and understand. It's common sense.


But America and the World is not ready. Not yet..

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: opethPA

Yes, I agree that targets closer and more confined are easier to hit than some outside and moving. Still 50! that's just worth questioning the background of the said perp.

He had gun license and was trained. Security license in Florida as well.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Just thinking, should someone who is on the radar be able to legally own a firearm?

Good point.

If he is a citizen, why not? Or can we deny his right before due process?

Or should we change law to not allow citizens on the radar to own (or purchase) firearms even if they had them before they went on the radar?

"On the radar" is such a vague phrase that gives us no information upon which to draw conclusions about what *should* be done.

There are people that are not allowed to purchase guns.

True.

But some type due process has usually occurred for them to not be able to.

a reply to: onequestion

Well, he has been investigated by the FBI twice for links to ISIS. His father is running for office in Afghanistan. Pretty sure this isn't just a dude that had a mental illness. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably not a white boy from a cornbread family. Omar Mateen

a reply to: Shamrock6

The concept is easy, sure. The actuality of it is a feat and worth noting if not investigating fully. Did you actually read to whom I was responding or are you trolling?

a reply to: llpoolej

But an investigation doesn't constitute a conviction.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Withholding judgement? Are you #ing kidding me.....50 people are dead. Less than 10 miles from my home. It was Islamic Terrorism. This armchair quarterback # is done here. Ban me. I dont give a flying #.

My wife was less than a mile away at a hotel with my daughter last night when this happened. They could have been out getting something to eat or hanging out.

I know people last night who were simply having a good time and they will not be coming home. Ever. Not because of judgement but being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[snipped]

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: opethPA

Yes, I agree that targets closer and more confined are easier to hit than some outside and moving. Still 50! that's just worth questioning the background of the said perp.

I don't see the fact that sadly so many people died being some indication of a nefarious plot.. Spray and pray into a room of a few hundred people , I would be willing to bet you kill close to 50. Do the same after you have done some practice and 50 becomes even more realistic.

Just a sad scenario all around..the ripple effect of lives over, ruined or damaged by 1 bad person is huge.

a reply to: Liquesence

The problem is, these watch lists are getting very large, and it's not really that hard to get on one.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

This was just posted in another thread here.

ISIS Announced Florida Threat THREE Days Ago: “We Will Attack Florida”

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: TheRedneck


Just the mass manufacturing of guns. Treat them like Nukes. You make them, but they only reach the desired authorities. I can do without my shotgun. Have hunted enough over the years.

Don't be ridiculous, responsible people who have guns don't just go out and kill people. I cc'd for four years, a de44 and a cz75. I NEVER shot anyone out of anger, stupidity, carelessness or my (lack of) religious beliefs. Self defense, ending terrorists and criminals, that's different, they were all bad and caught in the act. If you have a gun and someone points their gun at you or someone you care about, act fast, move and use it or lose it

If people in the bar were armed, at least a few and they acted, the outcome probably would have been a lot different. As long as there are going to be Islamic extremists, I think Trump is right, keep them out. The problem is you can vet the immigrants, but you can't vet their spawn and if there are Islamic indoctrination centres in the US, they should be shut down until the "religion of peace" proves that it is a religion of peace.

RIP to the victims and their families, this crime was obscene. But more violence will not bring the dead back, hopefully level heads prevail.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: opethPA

i2.cdn.turner.com...

originally posted by: JimBielson

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JimBielson

I'm sure it was very terrorizing for the victims.

Just as rape is terrorizing. As is armed robbery. And murder. And attempted murder. And kidnapping.

Apply your logic and reasoning to the fact (not hyperbole, actual fact) that something being scary does not make it terrorism. Using the US Code definition of terrorism and the crime of terrorism does not make me a sheep or a lefty or whatever other cute name you want to try and throw at me.

Not calling everything scary "terrorism" does not make me a lefty or a sheep or whatever other name you want to try and apply to me. It means I understand there's a difference between legitimate acts of terrorism and the all too trendy trope of applying the terrorism label at every last little thing that happens.

And again, this may well turn out to be an ACTUAL act of terrorism. Nothing I've said can be taken, without extraordinary levels of twisting and spinning, as somehow me saying this is definitely not terrorism.

Information is good.

It does make you a sheep if you dont realize what this was and you need some bureaucrat to tell you want it was. I don't know where you come from but a radical (Insert your name for it) going into anywhere and spraying people with lead is the very definition of terrorism.

This is just as much terrorism as any mass shooting in America.

Again people, the "Official" version of terrorism has been used to convict people of lesser crimes. With reasoning and thoughtful reflection, you too can come to the same conclusion of what most Americans are calling this..

The US Code disagrees with you. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact (again, fact and not rhetoric) that something being scary is not the sole requirement for what makes an act of terrorism.

And since I prefer to use one working definition instead of whatever one you make up on the fly to suit your narrative (very sheepish-like, isn't it?), we're done here.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Understanding the legal definition of terrorism and what it requires to fulfill that definition...

Does the legal definition of terrorism include any kind of demand on the part of the terrorist? I'm thinking in terms of the old days, when terrorists would take hostages and then demand release of prisoners, for example.

I may just be uninformed, but it seems these days that terror is committed simply for terror's sake with no real purpose or objective. Whereas in the past terrorist acts were committed with a specific goal in mind.

Am I drawing too fine a line here? Or something???

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Oh so he was a security officer at one time.

I'm surprised Obama hasn't come out blaming it on workplace violence and not terrorism,of you know, the Islamic kind, since he can't use those words together.

originally posted by: kef33890
a reply to: opethPA

i2.cdn.turner.com...

As you don't seem to be aware that is from Columbine in 1999 and has nothing to do with last night.

Wow 50 dead? This is a bad shooting even for the USA?

“Muslim” nut job or “Christian” nut job?

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: jhn7537

No these threads are what make ATS one of the best sites for breaking news. Lots of insight, commentary AND vetting.

I think you misunderstood me, like I was knocking the site or thread... Just saying they are very fast moving, and it's hard to keep up with them when you're making up 30+ pages and trying to maintain an eye on the current updates...

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: llpoolej

But an investigation doesn't constitute a conviction.

Um, he has been investigated twice for ties to Isis and now he has killed 50 people. I think that really might sorta seal the deal right there that he is not innocent. Though, I would hate for rational thinking to override magical thinking that the horse you are looking at is really a zebra.

Bill Nelson says there seems to be some connection to ISIS