Trump in Neverland, and the GOP Exodus

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Any worse than a career politician, or say, a lawyer?

No. I'd say he's just as bad.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president or else you have a 'stupid' population.

That's not what I said. I said the reason he did so well is because of the collective stupidity of many people. They nominated a reality TV star that fumbled his way to the nomination. Of course, that fumbling will be perceived as political "genius".

I think a population that continues to elect corrupt politicians influenced by lobbyists from corporations would be more open to the charge of being stupid.

Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

Ya, way to go. You really showed 'em.

So the reality is (leaving aside the emotion of election victories/losses and personal reactions to candidates style) that Trump won across all demographics - new voters, old voters, college, no college, women, men, minority, majority...

I guess that can be called "reality" if you discount actual exit polls and polling in general as well as your visual system whilst examining the make-up of Trump rallies.

That kind reality denial is just stunning.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Any worse than a career politician, or say, a lawyer?

No. I'd say he's just as bad.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president or else you have a 'stupid' population.

That's not what I said. I said the reason he did so well is because of the collective stupidity of many people. They nominated a reality TV star that fumbled his way to the nomination. Of course, that fumbling will be perceived as political "genius".

I think a population that continues to elect corrupt politicians influenced by lobbyists from corporations would be more open to the charge of being stupid.

Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

Ya, way to go. You really showed 'em.

So the reality is (leaving aside the emotion of election victories/losses and personal reactions to candidates style) that Trump won across all demographics - new voters, old voters, college, no college, women, men, minority, majority...

I guess that can be called "reality" if you discount actual exit polls and polling in general as well as your visual system whilst examining the make-up of Trump rallies.

That kind reality denial is just stunning.

Actual exit polls show Trump won the nomination across all demographic groups. I am actually in the middle of a study on this covering all primaries and will post it when done. I can tell you now, Trump wins across the board. When I post the details, i will include all sources.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Hows that Trump steak and Trump vodka?

I never had any. Did you try it?

I never had a chance, the products were pulled from QVC and the Sharper Image catalog due to poor sales.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Hows that Trump steak and Trump vodka?

I never had any. Did you try it?

I never had a chance, the products were pulled from QVC and the Sharper Image catalog due to poor sales.

Probably tasted awful then - sounds like I didn't miss much.

a reply to: UKTruth

Dunno, his stuff isn't usually BAD -- it's just that no one really needs or wants to buy Trump steak. It's just a silly/bad idea.

From what I saw, it came from good cattle and looked like good steak. The vodka was said to be better than Smirnoff, and the bottle was at least cool. So, there's that.

originally posted by: UKTruth
REPLY TO : Indigo5

As a self proclaimed researcher you will know that taking data that only supports one narrative is always poor practice .

I did not begin with a narrative...the Data tells the narrative. You have it backwards.

Trump supporters are seeking an authoritarian figure and are emotionally driven by Fear and Loathing.

More specifically a fear and loathing of change, terrorism and people that don't look like them.

They seek a strong, egoistical, loud figure that promises to fix it all and keep them safe.

As long as Trump hits those two hot-buttons for his supporters he can lie, flip-flop, cite tabloids as facts or anything else he wants to do.

The challenge for him is that those that crave an authoritarian leader do not constitute a sufficient number to get him elected to office.

The secondary challenge for him is that his name is his brand is his worth...

Once during a deposition while attempting to sue an author who claimed he was only worth $150-200 Million vs. the Billions he claimed to be worth...he explained how he includes his "feelings" in assessing his own net worth.

“Now, Mr. Trump, have you always been completely truthful in your public statements about your net worth of properties?” my lawyer asked during the deposition.

“I try,” said Donald.

“Have you ever not been truthful?”

“My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.”

“Let me just understand that a little bit,” my lawyer said. “Let’s talk about net worth for a second. You said that the net worth goes up and down based upon your own feelings?”

...

“When you publicly state what you’re worth, what do you base that number on?”

“I would say it’s my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked,” Donald responded. “And as I say, it varies.”

www.newsweek.com...

He lost that lawsuit BTW...the guy who claimed he was only worth 150-200M vs. 10 B...he won..

Why again hasn't Trump released his tax records?

If his net worth is based on an assessment of the name "Trump" then he has lost significant "worth" in his campaign thus far.

By his own standard his followers should not tolerate "a loser"...and they wont..

So what is next for Trump if he fails to make it to the WH?

NBC has declared they will never work with him again...

Nobody wants the controversial name "Trump" on their properties anymore...Most "Trump" buildings he only licenses his name.

I think Trump decided to stop being a protest candidate excited about expanding his name "brand" and start being a legitimate candidate when he realized it was all or nothing.

I don't see happy times for Trump after this election cycle.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth
REPLY TO : Indigo5

As a self proclaimed researcher you will know that taking data that only supports one narrative is always poor practice .

I did not begin with a narrative...the Data tells the narrative. You have it backwards.

Trump supporters are seeking an authoritarian figure and are emotionally driven by Fear and Loathing.

More specifically a fear and loathing of change, terrorism and people that don't look like them.

They seek a strong, egoistical, loud figure that promises to fix it all and keep them safe.

As long as Trump hits those two hot-buttons for his supporters he can lie, flip-flop, cite tabloids as facts or anything else he wants to do.

The challenge for him that those that crave an authoritarian leader do not constitute a sufficient number to get him elected to office.

The secondary challenge for him is that his name is his brand is his worth...

Once during a deposition while attempting to sue an author who claimed he was only worth $150-200 Million vs. the Billions he claimed to be worth...he explained how includes his "feelings" in assessing his own net worth.

“Now, Mr. Trump, have you always been completely truthful in your public statements about your net worth of properties?” my lawyer asked during the deposition.

“I try,” said Donald.

“Have you ever not been truthful?”

“My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.”

“Let me just understand that a little bit,” my lawyer said. “Let’s talk about net worth for a second. You said that the net worth goes up and down based upon your own feelings?”

...

“When you publicly state what you’re worth, what do you base that number on?”

“I would say it’s my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked,” Donald responded. “And as I say, it varies.”

www.newsweek.com...

He lost that lawsuit BTW...the guy who claimed he was only worth 150-200M vs. 10 B...he won..

Why again hasn't Trump released his tax records?

If his net worth is based on an assessment of the name "Trump" then he has lost significant "worth" in his campaign thus far.

By his own standard his followers should not tolerate "a loser"...and they wont..

So what is next for Trump if he fails to make it to the WH?

NBC has declared they will never work with him again...

Nobody wants the controversial name "Trump" on their properties anymore...Most "Trump" buildings he only licenses his name.

I think Trump decided to stop being a protest candidate excited about expanding his name "brand" and start being a legitimate candidate when he realized it was all or nothing.

I don't see happy times for Trump after this election cycle.

When you prove you can weigh both sides of the argument and come to a reasonable conclusion then I will take you seriously. I will read through your links and let you know what I think.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Dunno, his stuff isn't usually BAD -- it's just that no one really needs or wants to buy Trump steak. It's just a silly/bad idea.

From what I saw, it came from good cattle and looked like good steak. The vodka was said to be better than Smirnoff, and the bottle was at least cool. So, there's that.

You win some, you lose some, I guess. Trump does seem to win an awful lot though - as 16 of his now beaten rivals can attest to!

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth
REPLY TO : Indigo5

As a self proclaimed researcher you will know that taking data that only supports one narrative is always poor practice .

I did not begin with a narrative...the Data tells the narrative. You have it backwards.

Trump supporters are seeking an authoritarian figure and are emotionally driven by Fear and Loathing.

More specifically a fear and loathing of change, terrorism and people that don't look like them.

They seek a strong, egoistical, loud figure that promises to fix it all and keep them safe.

As long as Trump hits those two hot-buttons for his supporters he can lie, flip-flop, cite tabloids as facts or anything else he wants to do.

The challenge for him that those that crave an authoritarian leader do not constitute a sufficient number to get him elected to office.

The secondary challenge for him is that his name is his brand is his worth...

Once during a deposition while attempting to sue an author who claimed he was only worth $150-200 Million vs. the Billions he claimed to be worth...he explained how includes his "feelings" in assessing his own net worth.

“Now, Mr. Trump, have you always been completely truthful in your public statements about your net worth of properties?” my lawyer asked during the deposition.

“I try,” said Donald.

“Have you ever not been truthful?”

“My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.”

“Let me just understand that a little bit,” my lawyer said. “Let’s talk about net worth for a second. You said that the net worth goes up and down based upon your own feelings?”

...

“When you publicly state what you’re worth, what do you base that number on?”

“I would say it’s my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked,” Donald responded. “And as I say, it varies.”

www.newsweek.com...

He lost that lawsuit BTW...the guy who claimed he was only worth 150-200M vs. 10 B...he won..

Why again hasn't Trump released his tax records?

If his net worth is based on an assessment of the name "Trump" then he has lost significant "worth" in his campaign thus far.

By his own standard his followers should not tolerate "a loser"...and they wont..

So what is next for Trump if he fails to make it to the WH?

NBC has declared they will never work with him again...

Nobody wants the controversial name "Trump" on their properties anymore...Most "Trump" buildings he only licenses his name.

I think Trump decided to stop being a protest candidate excited about expanding his name "brand" and start being a legitimate candidate when he realized it was all or nothing.

I don't see happy times for Trump after this election cycle.

When you prove you can weigh both sides of the argument and come to a reasonable conclusion then I will take you seriously.

Considering the "serious" legitimacy you have attached to Trumps flip-flopity crazy proposed polices...I am comfortable not being included amongst those you take seriously..

thanks anyways..

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth
REPLY TO : Indigo5

As a self proclaimed researcher you will know that taking data that only supports one narrative is always poor practice .

I did not begin with a narrative...the Data tells the narrative. You have it backwards.

Trump supporters are seeking an authoritarian figure and are emotionally driven by Fear and Loathing.

More specifically a fear and loathing of change, terrorism and people that don't look like them.

They seek a strong, egoistical, loud figure that promises to fix it all and keep them safe.

As long as Trump hits those two hot-buttons for his supporters he can lie, flip-flop, cite tabloids as facts or anything else he wants to do.

The challenge for him that those that crave an authoritarian leader do not constitute a sufficient number to get him elected to office.

The secondary challenge for him is that his name is his brand is his worth...

Once during a deposition while attempting to sue an author who claimed he was only worth $150-200 Million vs. the Billions he claimed to be worth...he explained how includes his "feelings" in assessing his own net worth.

“Now, Mr. Trump, have you always been completely truthful in your public statements about your net worth of properties?” my lawyer asked during the deposition.

“I try,” said Donald.

“Have you ever not been truthful?”

“My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.”

“Let me just understand that a little bit,” my lawyer said. “Let’s talk about net worth for a second. You said that the net worth goes up and down based upon your own feelings?”

...

“When you publicly state what you’re worth, what do you base that number on?”

“I would say it’s my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked,” Donald responded. “And as I say, it varies.”

www.newsweek.com...

He lost that lawsuit BTW...the guy who claimed he was only worth 150-200M vs. 10 B...he won..

Why again hasn't Trump released his tax records?

If his net worth is based on an assessment of the name "Trump" then he has lost significant "worth" in his campaign thus far.

By his own standard his followers should not tolerate "a loser"...and they wont..

So what is next for Trump if he fails to make it to the WH?

NBC has declared they will never work with him again...

Nobody wants the controversial name "Trump" on their properties anymore...Most "Trump" buildings he only licenses his name.

I think Trump decided to stop being a protest candidate excited about expanding his name "brand" and start being a legitimate candidate when he realized it was all or nothing.

I don't see happy times for Trump after this election cycle.

When you prove you can weigh both sides of the argument and come to a reasonable conclusion then I will take you seriously.

Considering the "serious" legitimacy you have attached to Trumps flip-flopity crazy proposed polices...I am comfortable not being included amongst those you take seriously..

thanks anyways..

Just to be clear i will assess your links against the claim you made:

Trumps entire platform is based on emotion..To such a shocking extent that his positions do not matter to his cult followers. He can propose locking up women who have abortions on day, then change his mind the next. He can say anything...they don't care...cuz "thinking" has nothing to do with it. It only follows that a near 100% emotionally driven, button pushing campaign would evoke emotional responses.

Having read through some of them already, I see no connection to your extreme claim. It just seems like a desperate copy and paste/linking effort from any random thing you can find via google. It seems like you never posted any of those links before, but have grabbed what you can when challenged. I will finish reading through and then give my view.

My early assessment is it's not looking good for your claim.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Dunno, his stuff isn't usually BAD -- it's just that no one really needs or wants to buy Trump steak. It's just a silly/bad idea.

From what I saw, it came from good cattle and looked like good steak. The vodka was said to be better than Smirnoff, and the bottle was at least cool. So, there's that.

You win some, you lose some, I guess. Trump does seem to win an awful lot though

Incorrect...as Trumps (huuge fail) of a board game states..

"It's not whether you win or lose, but whether you win!"

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Dunno, his stuff isn't usually BAD -- it's just that no one really needs or wants to buy Trump steak. It's just a silly/bad idea.

From what I saw, it came from good cattle and looked like good steak. The vodka was said to be better than Smirnoff, and the bottle was at least cool. So, there's that.

You win some, you lose some, I guess. Trump does seem to win an awful lot though

Incorrect...as Trumps (huuge fail) of a board game states..

"It's not whether you win or lose, but whether you win!"

Not sure what you are saying?
Which part of my statement is 'incorrect' as you put it? Be specific.

a reply to: UKTruth

Do you see that game around anywhere?

The point is that Donald has many failed business ventures. Like his water, his steaks his magazine his mortgage company ect.

The three positions that virtually everyone educated on the issues both left and right say are complete nonsense at best and certain disaster at worst?

And we see how both sides have screwed things up with their "educated views". The whole illegal immigration thing is a perfect example of that. The biggest problem with illegals is that they rob us of money that is supposed to pay for the whole process that the left just loves bureaucracy! They are not paying their fair share! Hmm trade, we see how well the previous administrations and congress has handled that. What do we export now besides jobs? Foreign policy has been screwed with for years. Before you try and say that Bush ruined it the best [worst], the Obama administrations foreign policy has topped even that. Leaving out the disasters that Obama made even worse than Bush we also got Libya, Syria and the reset with Russia. Yea educated foreign policy right there.

Trump has a near impossible task. Normally you cater to your base in the primary and then take it more to middle in the general election. Trump needs to do both. He has zero chance to even make a challenge unless he has secured the red states 100%. Right now he has not. So he must fix that when he should be trying focus on the battleground states where he is behind in all but one. Georgia, Utah and Arizona are normally solid red but, now they are barely red and Trump has to know the DNC, who has a huge lead in the electoral college with its solid blue states, is going to target those states along with the battleground states where the already hold a lead.

To win Clinton needs only hold the blue states she leads by 10+ in and one of the battle ground states where she leads by smaller margins Florida, NC or Penn. And that gives her a win. Seeing Trump weak in the battle ground states and in the red states as well the DNC is going to go for a crushing blow.

On Trumps part he has near impossible task even if the GOP throws its full support behind him and Dole, Romney. the Bush's. and Ryan have all said they do not even plan on endorsing Trump. Trump can not allow that. He can not be fighting to win in the traditional red states in the general election. They need to be solid because has to win almost every battle ground state with all the red states to win. If he does not have the full support of the GOP Establishment and its voters then Trump is going to be in for a beating no Republican has seen in modern times.

The problem for Trump is he the used a group of voters most people ignore because most Americans find their opinions objectionable. With the GOP primaries so crowded that group was enough to get him through. Catering to them though has made him a national pariah. A good part of the GOP is just going to sit home this election. And while that is bad for the run at the White House it is far worse for the House and the Senate.

The only real consolation for the GOP is Trumps defeat is going to be so bad that he will no longer have a voice in the party so they can try and revive it and hope that and all powerful DNC falls apart without a common enemy. Which is pretty likely to some extent.

a reply to: Indigo5

" By all estimates 20-30% of GOP will NEVER vote Trump..and as much as half of them will vote Hillary just to stop him! "

If that is the case , then these people were more than likely Never Republicans in the first place . Also , by claiming that , the National Voting Base comprised of Mostly Independent Voters would compensate for that Betrayal to their Party's Chosen Candidate . In other words , Mr. Trump Really does Not Need those Individuals who feel that way in order to be elected our Next President .

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: UKTruth

Do you see that game around anywhere?

The point is that Donald has many failed business ventures. Like his water, his steaks his magazine his mortgage company ect.

Yeah, seen all that.. I am still trying to work out which part of what i said was incorrect though:

You win some, you lose some, I guess. Trump does seem to win an awful lot though

Whenever one says anything positive about Trump it seems to bring out some crazy unrelated point.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Yes, and how many of the same base stayed home rather than voting for Romney or effectively did the same by voting for a third party like the libertarian? I know of several.

I can't say I wasn't seriously tempted when it came to both Romney and McCain. I actually have more interest in voting for Trump than either of those two and Trump was not my preference either.

originally posted by: introvert
Hillary is a seasoned politician and knows how to run the country, for better or for worse.

"Seasoned" and "capable" are different things. Out of all the candidates she is probably the worst thing for America. Thank the Clinton's for those screwed up trade deals(NAFTA and GATT) that crippled our economy.

Trump has no value and people are stupid for not observing the obvious.

Saying a multi billionaire that employees thousands of people "has no value" is nonsense. He has more economic and political value than all the candidates combined in that regard. This isn't a compliment to Trump it's a testament to how far we have fallen... That we have to resort to such drastic measures to get this country back on track. Trump said it himself 20 years ago, he would only run for president if it got "really bad". It's gotten "really bad"...

a reply to: ketsuko

" Yes, and how many of the same base stayed home rather than voting for Romney or effectively did the same by voting for a third party like the libertarian? I know of several. "

Millions of them , myself included .