Trump in Neverland, and the GOP Exodus

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BlueAjah

They said that Trump would never make it through the primaries, and look at what happened. They have underestimated him so far.

I don't think "they" underestimated Trump. They underestimated the stupidity of a huge chunk of the American population.

Let's put this in proper perspective.

We have a reality TV star that has won the nomination to run for president for one of the two major parties in the US.

Let the elite pull out. They know their bubble has burst and they are going to actually be held accountable, and will need to actually do an honest days work if Trump is POTUS. They don't like that that cushy world is about to be turned upside down. This is a GOOD thing. Let them stay home.

Trump is an elite.

Reality TV star, multi billionaire businessman and a marketing genius (and as it turns out political genius)
Any worse than a career politician, or say, a lawyer?

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president or else you have a 'stupid' population. I think a population that continues to elect corrupt politicians influenced by lobbyists from corporations would be more open to the charge of being stupid.

originally posted by: UKTruth


Surely you have it to hand if you did your research to come to your conclusion? Are you off looking for sources to substantiate your claims?

I'd like to see both sides of the argument and your rationale for your conclusion...

As to your last point...I don't care what you would like to see...how presumptive and arrogant you are...My time belongs to me...what an absurd attitude you have.

Here is a sample...Fear and Loathing of old drives Trump supporters..


a reply to: UKTruth

Claim: Trumps platform is based on emotion. His record number of flip-flops and record breaking dishonesty in statements matters not to his supporters.

His dishonesty has so exhausted fact-checkers that Politifact declared his ENTIRE CAMPAIGN as winning "The Lie of The Year Award".

Michael LaBossiere, a philosophy professor at Florida A&M University who studies theories of knowledge.
"He makes a clearly false or even absurdly false claim, which draws the attention of the media. He then rides that wave until it comes time to call up another one."

PolitiFact has been documenting Trump’s statements on our Truth-O-Meter, where we’ve rated 76 percent of them Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire, out of 77 statements checked. No other politician has as many statements rated so far down on the dial.

He has broken all records false statement on many fact checker sites...Just last week he claimed Ted Cruz's father was involved in the assassination of JFK...It is safe to say that not all of his supporters believe him..but most don't care.

www.politifact.com...

His Flip-Flopping on virtually every issue claimed important to conservatives also seems irrelevant to Trump supporters..

So what drives Trump supporters?

Matthew MacWilliams PhD University of Massachusetts Amherst

MacWilliams studies authoritarianism — not actual dictators, but rather a psychological profile of individual voters that is characterized by a desire for order and a fear of outsiders. People who score high in authoritarianism, when they feel threatened, look for strong leaders who promise to take whatever action necessary to protect them from outsiders and prevent the changes they fear.

So MacWilliams naturally wondered if authoritarianism might correlate with support for Trump.

He polled a large sample of likely voters, looking for correlations between support for Trump and views that align with authoritarianism. What he found was astonishing: Not only did authoritarianism correlate, but it seemed to predict support for Trump more reliably than virtually any other indicator.

www.vox.com...

sampling 1,800 registered voters across the country and the political spectrum. Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter.

Authoritarians obey. They rally to and follow strong leaders. And they respond aggressively to outsiders, especially when they feel threatened. From pledging to “make America great again” by building a wall on the border to promising to close mosques and ban Muslims from visiting the United States, Trump is playing directly to authoritarian inclinations.

www.politico.com...

Vanderbilt University, a professor named Marc Hetherington was having his own aha moment. He realized that he and a fellow political scientist, the University of North Carolina's Jonathan Weiler, had essentially predicted Trump's rise back in 2009, when they discovered something that would turn out to be far more significant than they then realized.

That year, Hetherington and Weiler published a book about the effects of authoritarianism on American politics. Through a series of experiments and careful data analysis, they had come to a surprising conclusion: Much of the polarization dividing American politics was fueled not just by gerrymandering or money in politics or the other oft-cited variables, but by an unnoticed but surprisingly large electoral group — authoritarians.

Their book concluded that the GOP, by positioning itself as the party of traditional values and law and order, had unknowingly attracted what would turn out to be a vast and previously bipartisan population of Americans with authoritarian tendencies.

This trend had been accelerated in recent years by demographic and economic changes such as immigration, which "activated" authoritarian tendencies, leading many Americans to seek out a strongman leader who would preserve a status quo they feel is under threat and impose order on a world they perceive as increasingly alien

Trump embodies the classic authoritarian leadership style: simple, powerful, and punitive

www.vox.com...

Now WAPO did a much less academic and rigorous study declaring that Trump Supporters are driven more by “Mistrust of Experts”…aka..a branch of Populism..
They make this case by citing that Cruz scores higher on Authoritarian Support than Trump…but comparing it to the negatives in Authoritarian Support by A GOP Contender like Kasich or a Dem like Clinton or Bernie…it’s still safe to say that Trump is benefiting heavily from Authoritarian support in addition to Mistrust of experts (Which accounts for him being able to say outlandish lies without fear of losing supporters)…His supporters don’t trust facts or truth.

Wapo here: www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: UKTruth

One of many polls:

number of political scientists have found that those statements might actually be a key reason for his success. Support for Trump is highest among whites who express ethnocentric viewpoints, score high on measures of authoritarianism, identify strongly as white, and who express negative views of racial minorities.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Also here
A strange but accurate predictor of whether someone supports Donald Trump
www.washingtonpost.com...

Donald Trump is attracting authoritarian primary voters, and it may help him to gain the nomination.
blogs.lse.ac.uk...

I asked psychologists to analyze Trump supporters. This is what I learned.
www.washingtonpost.com...

We like people who talk big.

We like people who tell us that our problems are simple and easy to solve, even when they aren't.

And we don't like people who don't look like us.

So there you have it…polls, studies, analysis…all showing the same EMOTIONAL reasons that people support Trump.

* I could dive deeper and spit all the specific numbers at you…but this is all I can offer during my 20 minute lunch break.

a reply to: UKTruth

Any worse than a career politician, or say, a lawyer?

No. I'd say he's just as bad.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president or else you have a 'stupid' population.

That's not what I said. I said the reason he did so well is because of the collective stupidity of many people. They nominated a reality TV star that fumbled his way to the nomination. Of course, that fumbling will be perceived as political "genius".

I think a population that continues to elect corrupt politicians influenced by lobbyists from corporations would be more open to the charge of being stupid.

Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

Ya, way to go. You really showed 'em.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BlueAjah

They said that Trump would never make it through the primaries, and look at what happened. They have underestimated him so far.

I don't think "they" underestimated Trump. They underestimated the stupidity of a huge chunk of the American population.

Let's put this in proper perspective.

We have a reality TV star that has won the nomination to run for president for one of the two major parties in the US.

Let the elite pull out. They know their bubble has burst and they are going to actually be held accountable, and will need to actually do an honest days work if Trump is POTUS. They don't like that that cushy world is about to be turned upside down. This is a GOOD thing. Let them stay home.

Trump is an elite.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president

You need to know the difference between your head and your ass when it comes to important matters or things go boom.

Military Would Revolt Against Trump, Former CIA Director Says
www.zerohedge.com...

General Scolds Rep. Backing Trump: 'The Military Is Not His Palace Guards'
crooksandliars.com...

Trump Interested in Arming Japan, South Korea with Nukes
www.weeklystandard.com...

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Any worse than a career politician, or say, a lawyer?

No. I'd say he's just as bad.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president or else you have a 'stupid' population.

That's not what I said. I said the reason he did so well is because of the collective stupidity of many people. They nominated a reality TV star that fumbled his way to the nomination. Of course, that fumbling will be perceived as political "genius".

I think a population that continues to elect corrupt politicians influenced by lobbyists from corporations would be more open to the charge of being stupid.

Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

Ya, way to go. You really showed 'em.

So the reality is (leaving aside the emotion of election victories/losses and personal reactions to candidates style) that Trump won across all demographics - new voters, old voters, college, no college, women, men, minority, majority... It's one of the greatest victories in election history. Probably the only group where he really struggled to pull the same level as support is with younger people (not well represented within the GOP).

Did they all just become stupid or was everyone always stupid?
If the latter then this is not a 'Trump' phenomena, you are basically saying that Americans are stupid, so no real need to associate that stupidity with Trump supporters (because that's every group).

If the former, what is it that turned them all stupid?

Perhaps the voters, in adequate numbers, decided that they have had enough of unrestricted immigration, job losses and decades of overseas wars. Maybe that explains what happened a little better than 'all his voters are stupid'. Just a thought to ponder on.

The 'Trumps voters are stupid and that's why he won' argument never stacks up when you actually look at facts instead of looking for reasons to help one make sense of it - especially when some have been so emotionally invested in the outcome.

REPLY TO : Indigo5

As a self proclaimed researcher you will know that taking data that only supports one narrative is always poor practice. The only time it is not is when there are no alternative views. If you can't be objective then you are a poor researcher and your opinion offers little value.

I will read through your links to see if you have fallen into the trap of biased research and reply.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BlueAjah

They said that Trump would never make it through the primaries, and look at what happened. They have underestimated him so far.

I don't think "they" underestimated Trump. They underestimated the stupidity of a huge chunk of the American population.

Let's put this in proper perspective.

We have a reality TV star that has won the nomination to run for president for one of the two major parties in the US.

Let the elite pull out. They know their bubble has burst and they are going to actually be held accountable, and will need to actually do an honest days work if Trump is POTUS. They don't like that that cushy world is about to be turned upside down. This is a GOOD thing. Let them stay home.

Trump is an elite.

Seems like political snobbery to suggest you have to be a certain type of person to become president

You need to know the difference between your head and your ass when it comes to important matters or things go boom.

Military Would Revolt Against Trump, Former CIA Director Says
www.zerohedge.com...

General Scolds Rep. Backing Trump: 'The Military Is Not His Palace Guards'
crooksandliars.com...

Trump Interested in Arming Japan, South Korea with Nukes
www.weeklystandard.com...

Your links have nothing to do with my point, which was about political snobbery.
I'll read them in the context of support for your other claim.

There is also no need for the insults - take the emotion out of it.

a reply to: UKTruth

Did they all just become stupid or was everyone always stupid?

I don't know. I suppose both are possible.

If the latter then this is not a 'Trump' phenomena, you are basically saying that Americans are stupid

Ya, pretty much.

so no real need to associate that stupidity with Trump supporters (because that's every group).

Sure. Whatever makes you feel better about supporting Trump.

Perhaps the voters, in adequate numbers, decided that they have had enough of unrestricted immigration, job losses and decades of overseas wars. Maybe that explains what happened a little better than 'all his voters are stupid'. Just a thought to ponder on.

Seems pretty stupid to be tired of those things and to turn around and vote for a man that has played a part in the system that caused the problem. That's why I sad this: Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

The 'Trumps voters are stupid and that's why he won' argument never stacks up when you actually look at facts instead of looking for reasons to help one make sense of it

There is no making sense out of it. That's the problem.

It makes no sense to believe in all the things you listed and then vote for a Reality TV star that has been part of the problem.

Tired of immigrants and immigration? Trump was involved with undocumented workers.

Tired of China kicking our ass? Trump has his own products made in China.

Tired of corrupt politicians and lobbyists? Trump donated to campaigns of corrupt politicians.

See the stupidity here? People voted for a man that did exactly what they claim to be against, and hold him up on a pedestal when he lied to their faces about wanting to do address those issues.

especially when some have been so emotionally invested in the outcome.

Emotions, blah blah. That is your standard pot shot when trying to take digs at people.

Stand on your own ability to debate and stop being so petty.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Did they all just become stupid or was everyone always stupid?

I don't know. I suppose both are possible.

If the latter then this is not a 'Trump' phenomena, you are basically saying that Americans are stupid

Ya, pretty much.

so no real need to associate that stupidity with Trump supporters (because that's every group).

Sure. Whatever makes you feel better about supporting Trump.

Perhaps the voters, in adequate numbers, decided that they have had enough of unrestricted immigration, job losses and decades of overseas wars. Maybe that explains what happened a little better than 'all his voters are stupid'. Just a thought to ponder on.

Seems pretty stupid to be tired of those things and to turn around and vote for a man that has played a part in the system that caused the problem. That's why I sad this: Instead of electing a corrupt politician influenced by lobbyists, they elected the man that gives money to lobbyists to corrupt politicians.

The 'Trumps voters are stupid and that's why he won' argument never stacks up when you actually look at facts instead of looking for reasons to help one make sense of it

There is no making sense out of it. That's the problem.

It makes no sense to believe in all the things you listed and then vote for a Reality TV star that has been part of the problem.

Tired of immigrants and immigration? Trump was involved with undocumented workers.

Tired of China kicking our ass? Trump has his own products made in China.

Tired of corrupt politicians and lobbyists? Trump donated to campaigns of corrupt politicians.

See the stupidity here? People voted for a man that did exactly what they claim to be against, and hold him up on a pedestal when he lied to their faces about wanting to do address those issues.

especially when some have been so emotionally invested in the outcome.

Emotions, blah blah. That is your standard pot shot when trying to take digs at people.

Stand on your own ability to debate and stop being so petty.

OK, so you think Americans are stupid generally. By that definition, stupid people vote for Cruz, Clinton, Sanders etc.. If that is true then the only thing causing the attacks on Trump for his support can be an emotional reaction devoid of any differentiating substance.

You mention a lot about Trump being part of the corruption and I agree with that, but I again fail to see how this differentiates him from the other candidates.

If your argument is that politics is corrupt and people are generally stupid for believing their vote counts or will change things, then we're on common ground. If you single out one candidate because you dislike him more than others then I will continue to call it what it is - an emotional reaction and not one based on substance.

a reply to: UKTruth

Hows that Trump steak and Trump vodka?

a reply to: UKTruth

OK, so you think Americans are stupid generally.

Let me clarify. I think many Americans are stupid. I also think that many smart people do stupid things. Politics can bring out the stupid in people sometimes.

You mention a lot about Trump being part of the corruption and I agree with that, but I again fail to see how this differentiates him from the other candidates.

Each of those other candidates have some sort of inherent "value" that would make a vote for them somewhat reasonable.

Cruz knows the constitution. Sanders understands corruption within the system and what the causes are. Hillary is a seasoned politician and knows how to run the country, for better or for worse.

Trump does not have any value whatsoever. You could say he is a successful businessman, but a Forbes magazine writer was correct when they said that, and I am paraphrasing, not all that is profitable is socially responsible and not all that is socially responsible is profitable. Corporate experience is not indicative of a person qualified to run an entire country.

If your argument is that politics is corrupt and people are generally stupid for believing their vote counts or will change things, then we're on common ground.

That's not what I said.

If you single out one candidate because you dislike him more than others then I will continue to call it what it is - an emotional reaction and not one based on substance.

Trump has no value and people are stupid for not observing the obvious. The only reason you continue with the line of emotions is because that is how you operate and wish to project that on to others.

Leave your emotional nonsense at the door, cupcake. Gotta bring your big girl panties when stepping in to political discourse.

*raises hand*

Hey, -- um *clears throat* I'd just like to say that being the President of the United States of America is starting to sound like the worst job in the world. Or universe. Seriously.

Like...I would never want that job, EVER -- and I'm starting to think anyone who does want to be POTUS is a bit nutty. Or a masochist. Or both. Yeah, probably both.

Seriously...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I stand corrected. It appears that Trump does have the "value" or qualities needed.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

OK, so you think Americans are stupid generally.

Let me clarify. I think many Americans are stupid. I also think that many smart people do stupid things. Politics can bring out the stupid in people sometimes.

You mention a lot about Trump being part of the corruption and I agree with that, but I again fail to see how this differentiates him from the other candidates.

Each of those other candidates have some sort of inherent "value" that would make a vote for them somewhat reasonable.

Cruz knows the constitution. Sanders understands corruption within the system and what the causes are. Hillary is a seasoned politician and knows how to run the country, for better or for worse.

Trump does not have any value whatsoever. You could say he is a successful businessman, but a Forbes magazine writer was correct when they said that, and I am paraphrasing, not all that is profitable is socially responsible and not all that is socially responsible is profitable. Corporate experience is not indicative of a person qualified to run an entire country.

If your argument is that politics is corrupt and people are generally stupid for believing their vote counts or will change things, then we're on common ground.

That's not what I said.

If you single out one candidate because you dislike him more than others then I will continue to call it what it is - an emotional reaction and not one based on substance.

Trump has no value and people are stupid for not observing the obvious. The only reason you continue with the line of emotions is because that is how you operate and wish to project that on to others.

Leave your emotional nonsense at the door, cupcake. Gotta bring your big girl panties when stepping in to political discourse.

So now Trump has no value and people are stupid for voting for him.. i see we've come full circle. So, given those extreme views, I am going to call it what it is. Emotional... and then some name calling thrown in.. Try and keep hold of yourself. You can't seem to get past it, but in live in hope you will one day be able to be objective

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: UKTruth

Hows that Trump steak and Trump vodka?

I never had any. Did you try it?

originally posted by: Indigo5

On Twitter a flurry of Republicans posted pics and video of them burning their GOP registration cards..

Republicans Burn Their Voter Registration Cards After Trump Becomes Likely Nominee

After Donald Trump’s win in Indiana, an exodus from the Republican Party has begun


Let's take a look at the "Never Trump" factor. The actual numbers we can find.

The GOP by the numbers on "Never Trump" from Rasmussen (A pollster that is known bias both right and toward Trump)

54% of Likely U.S. Voters say “Never Trump,”

Republican voters: 36% say “Never Trump”

Sixty percent (60%) of Republicans say they will definitely vote for Trump if he is their nominee

18% say they will definitely vote against him

Can Trump win if 18% of the GOP vote against him and another 18% don't vote?

Rasmussen Survey "Never Trump"

Also here:

A new Suffolk University poll has found that 19% of Republicans say they will support Hillary Clinton if Donald Trump wins the Republican nomination.


Quinnipac University Poll

(If Republican or Republican Leaner)
Are there any of these candidates you would definitely not support for the Republican nomination for president?
TRUMP 28%

www.qu.edu...

By all estimates 20-30% of GOP will NEVER vote Trump..and as much as half of them will vote Hillary just to stop him!

We can argue that Trump has turned up "Millions of New Voters"...but that is a myth..

The millions of new voters spurred by Donald Trump and other campaign myths, debunked
www.latimes.com...

Donald Trump has not brought ‘millions and millions’ of people to the Republican Party
www.washingtonpost.com...

Interested in what the crew here of ATS thinks about the implications?....

They wont listen to the truth you're telling.

Because like Trump his followers are in a state of self-deception

There will of course be some who don't like that a non-insider would be running the show. But there is a good chance that those who object have never met him and are going off of media rhetoric. And others will not like that the status quo is going to change, even though it is need of a chance.

As for the military, I think those few sources are blowing things way out of proportion for political reasons. Trump has said repeatedly that in any situation he would TALK to the generals, and give them what they need to keep our country safe, and work with them. He wants to meet with the generals and discuss a course of action to defeat ISIS. Trump is smart. He knows how to lead.

a reply to: UKTruth

So now Trump has no value and people are stupid for voting for him.

Yup.

i see we've come full circle.

I think I've been pretty straightforward.

So, given those extreme views

Being bluntly honest can be perceived as extreme by those that are not emotionally ready to handle it. I do apologize. I'll try to sugar-coat it a bit better next time.

I am going to call it what it is. Emotional... and then some name calling thrown in.. Try and keep hold of yourself. You can't seem to get past it, but in live in hope you will one day be able to be objective

Again, more projection. I stand by what I said and your go-to petty tactic does not change the reality that America just had a collective stupid moment.

a reply to: BlueAjah

Trump is an insider. He's admitted it.