The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

originally posted by: LoneCloudHopper2
a reply to: tigertatzen

They probably are very fear based. Perhaps they're so afraid of what we have to say that they feel the need to write it off. They do not engage us and participate in the discussion because they fear getting sucked into the concept of reality changing, thus making them crazy. Strange that it never occurs to them to just read another forum topic

I could go for a detective's cloak and a black face mask, I suppose. Guess I'll have to start smoking cigarettes to really look the part. We'll have to start having secret meetings, and we'll need a world map of course, and a long table. I'll work on my evil laugh. And someone will have to shave their head. There's always a bad baldy

Pretty funny idea actually that they might wake up and find themselves on the opposite side. Probably their worst nightmare.

I realize that you're attempting to talk around any of these issues rather than actually trying to communicate with other members here directly, and I respect that. I'd just like to say this to you, again, in the spirit of trying to communicate.

Neither you nor any other member "owns" the topic of "The Mandela Effect." You have your understanding (which I don't see you talking about as you seem to be obsessed with what other members think and say) and we have ours. There is nothing about any of this that "frightens" me or, I'm guessing, anyone else here. As far as what are to me fantastic explanations for the phenomena (time-travel, dimensional shifts, divine intervention, et. al.) I want to let you know, since you're opining in public, that none of those scare or threaten me in the least.

Every attempt to "engage" you and several other members here who are believers in the fanstastic explanations ends in conflict. You say that you feel attacked ... merely because I or another member tells you what our examination of this phenomenon has shown us. We have, in turn, been called shills, trolls and disinfo agents. With all respect, is that your idea of "engaging" someone on the topic?

Also, I want to be clear about my contentions one more time and then I feel like I've done my duty to the forum.

My position is that every one of the anomalies presented in the "Mandela Effect" CAN BE EXPLAINED by problems with human memory, perception, cognition which is exacerbated by internet communication methods. That is the only thing I've said, and the only position I have in it ... aside from wondering at the dramatic reactions on the part of some folks here who consider themselves part of a "in" group or clique which has to be defended against anyone with a different idea.

Best regards, I look forward to productive discussion on "the Mandela Effect" in the future.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

Your post has me wondering how many children out there who are diagnosed with autism or other previously rare disorders, are actually just so overwhelmed by stimuli that they cannot show us what's really going on inside their heads.

They could simply be the next step in human evolution and because we don't understand that, and thus fear it, we put them in a box. It happened to me, and I don't belong anywhere on the autism "spectrum". I'm just a person who has a problem forgetting everything that other people can dismiss with ease, so I have to limit my external stimuli.

Feel that I should just add that this also happened to me. I was not called "autistic," but I had a rather evil teacher (who was emotionally and physically abusive to me) who tried to have me put in a special school because she believed I was mentally challenged. I was taken to a series of specialists who tested me in different ways, from brain functions to emotional well-being to learning skills, and they came to the agreement that I was a sharp kid, just different, and could even excel ahead of the rest of my class if I wasn't being so overwhelmed with work (50 variations of the same question was like torture to me, as I barely had any interest in most schoolwork in the first place.) My mind was full of creative, imaginative ideas and philosophical pondering. Schoolwork seemed little more than busywork to me.

And yes, I was an extremely sensitive child, and that was certainly a major factor in my grades. I was overwhelmed on different levels, and punished for it quite severely. There is so much fear and hatred in this world of those who are different.

a reply to: glowdog

If a spelling is used so frequently though, it is not incorrect, and the 'dictionary people' are obligated to address it

a reply to: Ziath

This was never taught. Some of these people fail to see how big the ramificatios of some of their changes would effect the timelines.

A slave who can buy his own freedom??? That would mean the slavery era of the USA was vastly different. It would also mean that the family who was white in this timeline was black in the other.

Little things like lines in a movie are not what would be different. The entire political landscape would have to be different.

I can't even begin to comment on the people who think anatomy has changed. They've never had any type of legitimate medical training yet they are convinced evolution was so different in their timeline, yet all that's changed is a line in a movie (yes an exaggeration, but the point applies to all these little anecdotes)

What is the next "Mandela Effect" that everyone will flock towards?? When does it end?

a reply to: AcerM

That's where it's always been in my experience, until now...

a reply to: wrathofall

As of your post, as I am catching up, you're the first to mention it.

a reply to: raymundoko

From the Talk page:

Spelling of Dilemma[edit] There seems to be some controversy about the spelling, many people around the world use "Dilemna" instead, and the reason seems quite unknown. I refer you to here: northernplanets.blogspot.com... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.104.78 (talk) 16:45, 29 July 2011 (UTC) The answer is obvious; "Dilemna" is Imperial, "Dilemma" is Metric. But seriously, folks, I never came across "dilemma" until a few moments ago when google docs tried to correct my spelling.Paganize (talk) 06:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC) I blame my backwater school system. I used "dilemna" for a long time, and people couldn't understand why. I'm pretty sure dilemma is the most accepted spelling. Mizusajt (talk) 19:51, 24 July 2012 (UTC) Well if millions use dilemna, than it is a valid word. It shouldn't really matter if the word came about through mistakes, it is now a word. This is how language changes. A majority of people accepting usage of a word changes the language as a whole. Otherwise it's slang. This website, [1], did a google calculation of usage, 1st comment is by the author in May 2014, so I'll go by that date for his search. He found 3 million uses of "dilemma" and 300,000 uses of "dilmena". He is also selling T-shirts for accepting "dilemna", but concedes that "dilemma" is the correct spelling. A few websites: [2] [3] [4] 20 pages of forum debate, with a few links in there: [5] -204.76.166.50 (talk) 14:41, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk

Does this serve to "prove" to anyone that faulty memory is not applicable in this instance (the spelling of dilemna/dilemma)?

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: Ziath
I've been looking into this extensively for the past few days. I remember berenstEin, however I would easily believe a bunch of people remember the spelling wrong (including the writers of the show 'the office')
What I would like to talk about my friends... Is Eli Whitney. The inventor of the cotton gin.
I am positive I was taught in my childhood he was an African American who bought his freedom or some such after his invention. Many, many people remember being taught this.
If this was just plain misinformation, the schools taught us wrong, then WHY can I find NO hard evidence? No photos of school tests, textbook images, or otherwise misleading poor American children into falsely learning he was black.
On top of that, there is a song. 'You must learn' by Boogie Down Productions, made in the 80's or so. It mentions several BLACK prominent members of history, ELI WHITNEY being listed as the first one.
Combine this with his new appearance in the Freemason organization and BLOOD RELATIONSHIP with The Rockefeller's....
This is some #.

Wait what? Eli Whitney was white? STFU -- I was tuaght he bought his freedom with the invention of the cotton gin.

I'm with you. (I'm also a staunch BerenstEiner.) I just googled "I thought Eli Whitney was black" and got a ton of hits. This was one of the first ones was from 2007:

Eli Whitney Was Not Black

A couple of interesting comments at the bottom of it:

Katie Donovan
Saturday, June 15, 2013 at 5:08 pm

I know exactly how this got started. I went to public school in the 80’s and 90’s. This misinformation was printed in school textbooks by publishers who get various unknown and uneducated people to write the text and edit the whole thing together, then they pay some other unknown person to put their name on the book because they DO have a degree in something. Then they distribute the books to the schools, and most of the teachers just follow that curriculum. Public education is a joke, just like public welfare and every other service the government attempts to provide.

Bobby White
Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 10:18 am

If anyone can get a hold of History Textbooks written around 1940’s or earlier. You would see that Eli Whitney and the Wright Brothers were considered Black. It was taught in Black Segregated schools. My elders remember learning Eli Whitney and The Wright Brothers were both Black. They were related to at least one black person. It was part of the 1% black rule created by Jim Crow and his racist laws. One time in our history, Whites hated the color of dark skin that they considered 1 drop be a black. DNA of Y-DNA shows the Wright Brothers have E1B1 or African DNA. Later, White people unaware or who didn’t care about the Jim Crow laws, wanted to claim the Wright Brothers and Eli Whitney to add to their White History, which took away from Black History. This is why the fight is carried on today. One day, maybe we will just have an American History and Black and White won’t be an issue.

Neither one of these people provides proof. But their thoughts are interesting nonetheless.

originally posted by: AcerM
everyone else remembered it to either north west or north east. this is closest one (as my memory is), just a little smaller and slightly more south, used to watch that on maps and thinking how many good film has been shot there. it all started with new zealand for me, atm i have countless experiences going on.

The irony of this?

New Zealand wouldn't have the climate, that attracts all those movie makers, if it was west of Australia.

It's geographical location is critical for it's climate, and for having all of the climate zones it has in one location.

Eli Whitney has always been a white man in my memory.

I even have one of those line drawn portraits in mind.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

Search for human anatomy. This far more significant than spelling changes. Our internal organs have completely changed? Go look. Our hearts are now in the center of our chests? Our esophagus takes a sharp right turn to catch up to our stomachs which are now located under our rib cages? Men and women now have the same amount of rib bones (edit: I guess some do, some don't)? These are extremely significant and I'm baffled. Honestly.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Oh, so here's where you bait me in by taking a serious tone and pointing out that I'm not taking you seriously, as if there is no reason for it. Or are you actually serious now?

As I read what you wrote now, I see, you are not...

I realize that you're attempting to talk around any of these issues rather than actually trying to communicate with other members here directly, and I respect that. I'd just like to say this to you, again, in the spirit of trying to communicate.

You know full well you are the one ignoring the issues and refusing to participate in a discussion. Nice way to bait me in though.

Neither you nor any other member "owns" the topic of "The Mandela Effect." You have your understanding (which I don't see you talking about as you seem to be obsessed with what other members think and say)

I have my own understanding that I am not sharing, or barely sharing, seems to be your implication? I have something to hide. More of our cultish behaviour, eh? I have expressed many or all of my thoughts actually, several just as they came to me. In a discussion, it’s not all about you.

Also, as has been stated MUTIPLE times, we do not know what this is, why it is happening, and the reason why we are discussing this on a public forum is to prod each other for experiences, ideas and general discussion on the subject. We are trying to make sense of it, come to terms with it, and only a narcissist thinks that only their own ideas matter.

There is nothing about any of this that "frightens" me or, I'm guessing, anyone else here. As far as what are to me fantastic explanations for the phenomena (time-travel, dimensional shifts, divine intervention, et. al.)

I will proceed under the assumption henceforth that you are being truthful about that.

Every attempt to "engage" you and several other members here who are believers in the fanstastic explanations ends in conflict.

Oh, right. We are too darn emotional about our fragile little belief system, this new religion that we are building here (according to you,) that we simply cannot be reached by calm, mature, level-headed intellectuals such as yourself. Uh huh. Of course you know that, if anything, the reverse has been true up until now. I am open to the possibility of having an honest, real conversation if you are finally interested. I think it is your lies in requesting this which causes me some reservation, but let’s try it then...

You say that you feel attacked ... merely because I or another member tells you what our examination of this phenomenon has shown us.

More lies and twisting of facts. I do not personally feel “attacked.” I feel that you and others here have diverately decided to invade, troll and destroy what WAS, before you started your games, an OPEN, HONEST, INTELLIGENT conversation about an issue: that many of us have alternate memories, and hey, our alternate memories match! Neat, huh? Why is that? Well, we were discussing that. You could have joined in at any time. You could have argued at any time. Some members here did either, or both, and were WELCOMED and RESPECTED, despite their views. Why? They participated. That is to say, they LISTEMED to what was being said, they responded to what was being said, they shared their HONEST thoughts and ideas on what was being said, and discussed, socially, with us, like HUMAN BEINGS. Go figure.

You and other trolls (let’s be honest and specific here) have ignored what we were saying, repeated the same argument over and over, demanded that we reissue our response to the same argument (and proceeded to accuse us of dodging questions when we did LOL,) completely ignored the key evidence (of textual and physical evidence, as well as how many of us remember, so strong, and we all remember the same,) and called us cultists and trolls. You have behaved dishonestly, childishly and meanly. Your words do hurt people’s feelings, frighten away more people from joining the discussion and opening up, and also distract everyone (believers and skeptics alike) from a sensible, mature conversation. At any point that you wanted to participate, I was ready, and am ready.

We have, in turn, been called shills, trolls and disinfo agents. With all respect, is that your idea of "engaging" someone on the topic?

If a bully body slams a guy he doesn’t like to the ground and then his friends push the thug to the ground in turn, he doesn’t get to stand up and say: “Is that the way honourable people treat someone they don’t like?” Honorable people do have a right to defend themselves, as well as to try to figure out why people like you are trolling us. Again, feel free to join in the discussion. Nothing is stopping you.

My position is that every one of the anomalies presented in the "Mandela Effect" CAN BE EXPLAINED by problems with human memory, perception, cognition which is exacerbated by internet communication methods.

I can grant you the assumption that you are being honest in saying this. Thing is, just using “Berenstein” as an example, it is more than just the spelling, but the pronunciation of it. Why would so many people believe that “-stain” is pronounced “-steen?” The two are distinctly different. How do you account for this?

I have asked you previously how that accounts for so many people with the same, vivid memories, of the same exact alternative.

I do not understand what you mean here. Please clarify your question.

aside from wondering at the dramatic reactions on the part of some folks here who consider themselves part of a "in" group or clique which has to be defended against anyone with a different idea.

There is no “in” group or “clique.” Perhaps you feel this way because you did not bother to talk with us as if we were human beings, really listen to what we were saying and what our arguments were. You could have, and can join in at any time. At least here it seems like you are making an effort to discuss things more seriously. Please respond to my own points, honestly, if this is so. If there is anything I have said that you would like better explained, ask and I will do my best.

Best regards, I look forward to productive discussion on "the Mandela Effect" in the future.

Me as well!

a reply to: Gryphon66

I think each instance of this effect should be looked at individually instead of all examples being lumped under the Mandela Effect.

I don't recall how long ago it was, though it was quite a few years ago, but I remembered hearing Mandela had died in prison. I'm not positive but I probably heard it on AM radio news. I say that for a reason. Sometime later I heard he was being released from prison. I remember thinking, "WHAT?? I know I heard he had died." I didn't do any kind of search (I don't and refuse to make a habit of filling my mind with the Google Mind) but noted it was really strange and, naturally, my mind began seeking for an explanation. Someone I knew sent me a message at some point asking me if I remembered Mandela being reported as having died previously. I did. We discussed other well-known people as having been reported as died but then were supposedly still alive.

Concerning Eli Whitney, my memory tells me I was taught he was a black man. That's what I remember. I went to grade school in very rural NY outside of Albany. The area is still very rural. It looks like some of what people have been taught is geographic specific (for some reason yet to be determined which I find to be suspicious) and could be an explanation for some of the discrepancies being called into question.

Was it only reported in some areas that Mandela had died in prison and I happened to catch that one?

a reply to: IQPREREQUISITE


it was just a similar story about parellel universes
the 1st time i read it , the author put more emphasis on the broken bone
and how his brother and rest of the family had no recollection of it
they remembered the falling from the tree , but no broken bone and hospital visit

i will try to find it again

a reply to: tweetie

Yep, already corrected it in my edit. There were no textbook errors. The errors that could be traces back were letters that were written simply indicating that the misspelling goes back for quite a ways in time.

a reply to: mirageman

That's not at all what we're saying, and you know it - nobody seriously interested in this topic has claimed to be 'special' (except for the person who kept talking about being an empath - and I delivered a rebuke to that person, for tarring us with the 'special snowflake' brush). You & Gryphon66 are keeping up the tactics to destroy the credibility of people who claim to have experienced the ME. I only hope that you are not dissuading interested readers from considering the reality of the ME.

I've been doing some mild research and as I was pondering the Mandela Effect vis a vis my own personal experiences which I have posted here (which I am open to being disregarded as faulty memory except for my latter experience regarding the quote I wrote in the 90s) I remembered a topic that I came across a few months ago that might be relevant.

SANDY ISLAND MYSTERY

SANDY ISLAND MYSTERY EXPLAINED

This has been posted here I believe and ATS was even quoted on the second link which is cool actually. Anyway, it's about a phantom island somewhere west of Australia that's been charted by early explorers including the reputable Captain James Cook in 1774. It's also been mapped by Google, geographic and weather satellites.

The thing is...it doesn't exist.

It should have been there but someone apparently got curious enough, after seeing a blacked out image of it on Google Earth, to actually go there to try to visually confirm what the heck was going on. After a 25-day voyage, they were taken aback to find nothing there.

The leading theory is that it was all an intentional/unintentional mistake on the part of the early explorers. Now charts are being updated because of this discovery.

Going back to this so-called Mandela Effect. In my opinion (and I have other theories as well) some of these "manifestations" of the Mandela Effect could be attributed to "mistakes" on the part of the source or on the part of the observer or both. It's still a baseless theory and still in its infancy (I only thought about it a couple of hours ago, so please bear with me) but my contention is this:

If mistakes from explorers, credible at that, had this tremendous historical impact for 400 hundred years (is my math correct?) on our geographical data...it's not impossible that simple and mundane spelling/lyrical/impressionistic/what-have-you oversights can influence a whole generation of people into believing that error...only to be discovered and corrected now because of the the power of the internet and it's vast resources...hence the surprised reactions of people.

That's what I have so far. You don't even have to call them "mistakes". Call them what you like or whatevers proper. You guys get the idea.

Forgive the compound sentences...just tired. Will continue to read with great interest...once I get some rest

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

How is Gryphon ignoring the issues? He, as well as others, have addressed the "issues" with scientific data including peer reviewed papers explaining how memory works and fails us. If anyone is "ignoring issues", it is the Mandela effect crowd as they refuse to accept this peer reviewed scientific data as a possible explanation for their error.

Even though you have said something multiple times does not make it true. It's circular logic. All these threads are just for bias confirmation and anyone who disagrees is ignored.

As far as anyone being frightened? That's is a complete fabrication. Nobody has said anything about being frightened.

I am open to the possibility of having an honest, real conversation if you are finally interested

That's the part I just HAD to quote. You haven't engaged in any kind of honest conversation. You've completely ignored scientific data provided to you. You've turned your quest for confirmation into Logical Fallacy Palooza.

The fact you think you were having an honest open conversation it what is so laughable. Anyone who points out the so obvious flaws in logic is called a troll.

You are confused as to what "key evidence" means. You have no key evidence. You have faulty memory and want other people with faulty memory to make you feel better.

The majority of your post is utter tripe.

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: IQPREREQUISITE


it was just a similar story about parellel universes
the 1st time i read it , the author put more emphasis on the broken bone
and how his brother and rest of the family had no recollection of it
they remembered the falling from the tree , but no broken bone and hospital visit

i will try to find it again

Yes please do if you have the time. Really interested here. Though my brother fell down the stairs and given that it's a relatively common occurance that people fall down stairs, what peeked my curiousity was the fact that, by the way you said it, it seems that we're barking at the same tree with our semi-similar experiences.

a reply to: SRPrime

Eli and Whitney are not, and have never been, popular names for African American Children.

Considering Eli Whitney is FROM New England I seriously doubt you learned he was black. You are most likely having a false memory.

What you WERE taught in school was the Eli Whitney got his idea for a Cotton Gin from a SLAVE. The only thing we know about that slave was the his name was SAM. Eli saw Sam using a comb top remove the seeds and he turned it into a mechanical device.

You are creating an amalgamation of memories.