The Truth of Sanders is That He Is a Socialist.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's naïve to even think you can "vote" yourself free from government control.

The Founding Fathers were naive then. They gave the people the power to change what they want. They also gave us a 2nd amendment right to bring the government back down to Earth if needed.

The real problem here is not capitalism or socialism. It's lazy people that are afraid to make changes in their government but will still bitch and complain about how votes don't matter.

It can be done and we have the system in place that lets us do it.

You answered my question.

Wonderful.

Yes, we can always vote for more socialism, more government control.

But the only way to reverse it, is through the barrel of a gun.

Looks like we can put this one to bed.

G'nite everyone! Good job!

a reply to: neo96

Oh please the second is a shell of it's former existence.

Yes it is.

So are you really ready to wage war against government over of all things MONEY, simply because a minority has more than you ?

I did not say I was ready to wage war. I was commenting on what rights we have to make the changes we want.

Now TAXATION without representation like socialists push is a vaild reason to.

If you are taxed for healthcare, how is not represented?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Sure communism was to come from an over throw of government by the workers in a proletariat dictatorship. An immediate wae against capitalism. Before they Started doling out their goods and property.

That doesn't sound like democratic socialism. You may need to read some more modern philosophers that aren't from 150 years ago for that. Maybe Clark or Keynes.

Again I am not a supporter of national socialism. Just pointing out there isn't currently a party that has an alternative.

They laughed at RonPaul for years. Even when he was right.

Read Clark and Keynes too. We were discussing the Communist Manifesto.

Was I hallucinating?

And "Democratic Socialism" is just a variant of Marxism broken down and down and down. It's all a mixed bag, but they still believe basically the same philosophies and posit that in some circumstances, Capitalism is 'okay'.

"Mixed Economy" with a hard communal and public ownership slant.

That's pretty much it.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Sure communism was to come from an over throw of government by the workers in a proletariat dictatorship. An immediate wae against capitalism. Before they Started doling out their goods and property.

That doesn't sound like democratic socialism. You may need to read some more modern philosophers that aren't from 150 years ago for that. Maybe Clark or Keynes.

Again I am not a supporter of national socialism. Just pointing out there isn't currently a party that has an alternative.

They laughed at RonPaul for years. Even when he was right.

Why do I get the feeling that you know nothing about Ron Paul?

You said the other day that you were a follower of his yet, everything you say is in direct and unmistakable contradiction to everything that he says.

a reply to: greencmp

I was almost a Ron Paul delegate 2 years running.

Huh?

a reply to: DBCowboy

You said that we had no way to break ourselves free from tyrannical chains and I simply provided constitutional backing as to one way we could do so.

Do you not support the 2nd and it's intent?

a reply to: introvert

I did not say I was ready to wage war. I was commenting on what rights we have to make the changes we want.

And yet all I have seen you do is push limitations on those RIGHTS.

I don't have any RIGHTS what so ever to my money or my guns.

Only what the SOCIALISTS tell me I 'should' have.

Sorry, thought you were talking to me.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I have no idea if you are hallucinating it sounds like it.

Democratic socialism is not the same as communism. That is where the conversation started. Keynes is what we use as a model. It's nothing like communism. At all.

But if you want to go point for point lets do it.

Don't think that means I support it. But I don't believe you can win debates without understanding your opponents arguement.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Dude, I'm TOTALLY obnoxious. I make no bones about that.

Obviously. Should have that checked out. I'm sure they make a pill for it.

Now back to my questions of HOW

Taxation and reorganization based on the will of the people. If they want it bad enough, they will force a change in the political structure. If not, we will continue down the same path.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

You said that we had no way to break ourselves free from tyrannical chains and I simply provided constitutional backing as to one way we could do so.

Do you not support the 2nd and it's intent?

Socialism is directly at complete ODDS with the Constitution in so many ways they're on two different planets.

Especially Private Property. But earlier you stated you want more housing...which can only be achieved through public ownership of land and space.

Do you not see the most BASIC tenants are at odds?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Dude, I'm TOTALLY obnoxious. I make no bones about that.

Obviously. Should have that checked out. I'm sure they make a pill for it.

Now back to my questions of HOW

Taxation and reorganization based on the will of the people. If they want it bad enough, they will force a change in the political structure. If not, we will continue down the same path.

I live my life with passion and expression.

Don't care about your opinions Bro. I'm totally fine with being obnoxious.

a reply to: greencmp

I never said I was a follower of anyone. I just think he has the most honest ideas that make sense. It sounds like you are a follower.

I also lived in Texas for 13 years and for a time was just outside his district. I know plenty about him. Plenty about Austrian economics and studied a lot of philosophy both in and outside of school.

Don't mistake me taking apart your falacies for me supporting socialism.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Dude, I'm TOTALLY obnoxious. I make no bones about that.

Obviously. Should have that checked out. I'm sure they make a pill for it.

Now back to my questions of HOW

Taxation and reorganization based on the will of the people. If they want it bad enough, they will force a change in the political structure. If not, we will continue down the same path.

This doesn't mean anything. I give up. You can't explain the HOW. Why am I here.

I gotta go clean the dust jacket of my new Hunter S. Thompson book.

Capitalism...rocks.

a reply to: neo96

And yet all I have seen you do is push limitations on those RIGHTS.

I don't have any RIGHTS what so ever to my money or my guns.

Only what the SOCIALISTS tell me I 'should' have.

Bull#. I've never said I want to impose limitations on any rights. That's just a damned lie.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: greencmp

I never said I was a follower of anyone. I just think he has the most honest ideas that make sense. It sounds like you are a follower.

I also lived in Texas for 13 years and for a time was just outside his district. I know plenty about him. Plenty about Austrian economics and studied a lot of philosophy both in and outside of school.

Don't mistake me taking apart your falacies for me supporting socialism.

Thanks for clarifying.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Especially Private Property. But earlier you stated you want more housing...which can only be achieved through public ownership of land and space.

Indeed. That does not mean all land and property will be publicly-owned. You are taking it to an extreme.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

You said that we had no way to break ourselves free from tyrannical chains and I simply provided constitutional backing as to one way we could do so.

Do you not support the 2nd and it's intent?

Sure.

Would a socialist government allow a 2nd Amendment?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Thats a complicated question. Does a militia based army qualify?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Dude, I'm TOTALLY obnoxious. I make no bones about that.

Obviously. Should have that checked out. I'm sure they make a pill for it.

Now back to my questions of HOW

Taxation and reorganization based on the will of the people. If they want it bad enough, they will force a change in the political structure. If not, we will continue down the same path.

This doesn't mean anything. I give up. You can't explain the HOW. Why am I here.

I gotta go clean the dust jacket of my new Hunter S. Thompson book.

Capitalism...rocks.

I've already said that it is not a simple as you would like it to be. I can't explain it all in one condensed post to satisfy your need for instant gratification.