The Truth of Sanders is That He Is a Socialist.

originally posted by: luthier

Well considering Bush grew the government by over 50 percent as a conservative i would say you can count on the politicians doing the opposite of what they say.

Facts and figures?

Won't take your word for it.

originally posted by: luthier

Mao was a fascist dictator not a socialist. There is nothing resembling socialism in Mao's China.

Oh Sure.

The Great Leap Forward (Chinese: 大跃进; pinyin: Dà yuè jìn) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) was an economic and social campaign by the Communist Party of China (CPC) from 1958 to 1961. The campaign was led by Mao Zedong and aimed to rapidly transform the country from an agrarian economy into a socialist society through rapid industrialization and collectivization. However it is widely considered to have caused the Great Chinese Famine.

大跃进

One of the great Socialist failures of the 20th Century.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry.

I didn't mean to imply that YOU wanted socialism. What I meant to say was that that the "people", the Bernie-ites, the Obama-ites, the socialists, want socialism.

I've experienced it also.

That's why I am far more comfortable with the idea of self-reliance and personal responsibility.

But we are a nation who can vote ourselves into slavery if we so choose.

The only problem is that under socialism, you can't be self reliant. You are just one person, with only a limited amount of skills. For example. You might be a good cook, you might be a good craftman, but are you a doctor? Are you a dentist? Leading a hermit life will only ensure you will not survive.

To be truly self reliant, you need to be in a community with people who have the skills you lack. A community which will have doctors, dentists, specialists in other branches of medicine, bakers, farmers, craftmen, etc, etc.

The problem is, under socialism any community will be forced to live under the rules of socialism. You won't be able to have private land for farming for your community, because a large part of your food source will be required to be turned to the State without just compensation for the good of the collective

There is another thread I am about to start, unless someone else already has made it, that shows the State under the Obama administration has already started the process for a socialist State to control all farmland, and you won't be able to stop it.

The process to change the United States into a socialist nation has been started since at least the Obama administration taking office.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I don't disagree with anything you said.

But the fact remains that the people will ultimately want socialism.

I stated in another thread that people used to adjust to their environment to meet their needs.

now they want to adjust their environment to suit their needs.

People in the US have the freedom to vote themselves into slavery to the state.

And that's what we're seeing with Sanders.

Socialism is not a dirty or scary word to me. Particularly the form Sanders espouses. I agree with 99.9% of what he claims to support.

That said... I was unaware of his statements regarding assault weapon bans. That is very unfortunate and I have major qualms with it. Has he said anything since then to clarify or amend his desire to ban those weapons? I believe firmly in the second amendment and could not vote for someone dedicated to that stance.

I was pretty sure he'd say or do something or I'd learn something that would make me withhold my vote in due course. He would have been the first person I've ever voted for. But barring a retraction or clarification I find ethically palatable, I guess it's back to simply not voting. Figures.

Peace.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: greencmp

Thats not a solution.

You cant let them decide when they dont have anything to decide.

How can they live there lifes if there are no jobs for them with no money?

No job = no money

No money = no food

No food= death.

USA has a population just over 300 million.

What happens when there are only 100 million jobs?

What do you do with the other 200 million ?

You cant just let them starve and die.

Its simple maths.

The only thing to decide is lay down and die or take up arms and take by force from the those who do have jobs.

And if 200 million are starving you think those 200 million wont take up arms against the 100 million?
And when it gets to that sort of uprising/revolutions you get catatrophes like the USSR, cuba,revolutionary france and maoist China.

I see so, you are of the mind that people cannot make decisions for themselves.

It's a very popular idea.

WHAT DECISIONS!

No jobs and no saftey net means NO MONEY!

So the only decisions are to quietly die or fight?
And history shows how they choose to fight.

And when the serfs rise up its the middle class like me that end up in the guillotine or in front of the fireing squad while the real elite skip out the country.

So unless you have a bunker, private army,your own island or you want a police state to keep those serfs down your going to need a better plan than just "let them eat cake".

Forgive my possible misinterpretation but, are you saying that not only can people not make decisions but that they actually have no decisions to make?

If you lived in Caracas, would you stay there if you were allowed to escape? Are there inward facing containment fences surrounding your Island?

Have you not considered leaving a place where no employment is possible?

By all means, rise up and take over if you can't escape but, I recommend voting with your feet. A plane ticket is less than a month's rent.

I think your missing the point.

In 25-50 years time there might not be any jobs.....anywere.

Estimates are pretty depressing, they say 75% of jobs could pretty much become obsolete.

I know im safe in my job, i have a high IQ, a good education, skill in a job unlikely to be replaced by robots and if all else fails money to retrain.

But many hard working people wont be.

Im not saying people are incapable of makeing decisions , what im saying is that the only decision will be starve to death or take up arms and take by force.

You really think when in 50 years time when im living like a king on cheaply made products made by robots and 3D Printers and have a life expectancy of 200 the people with out jobs will just settle with starving to death or living in 3rd world squalor?

They will rise up and kill me and take my wealth by force like in every other society that told the masses to "eat cake".

Im in the 1% and that means im out numbered 99 to 1. I dont like those odds.

We cant afford rigid ideological thinking for the future.

a reply to: crazyewok

I honestly don't know why more people haven't put together the part technology plays in job destruction.

Just for fun.

Who is John Galt.

a reply to: DBCowboy

People have been accustomed for far too long that if they hold out long enough, someone else will pick up the tab and bail them out. There is no accountability anymore for the mess that people get themselves into. And most of the time, someone else is to blame, especially if you are amember of a protected class.

People don't necessarily want socialism, they want free stuff! They don't want to work hard, they want to point the finger at those who have and then say "GIVE ME SOME OF THAT. I DESERVE IT JUST BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE AS MUCH AS YOU DO, AND I DON'T WANT TO WORK AS HARD TO GET IT."

What you are seeing before your very eyes how the elimination of a constitutional republic that's been replaced with a corporate oligarchy, ultimately leads to the enslavement of a society through commercialism. The need to have, and to have it now, outweighs the desire to work hard to earn it and have it mean something. When so-called government is taken over by this oligarchy, they help to further divide the country into the have's and the have-nots.

The 'haves', of course, are those that are either in bed with corporate America, those the fund them, or those who make the laws to ensure that they continue to grab power and divide this country. They prey upon those who aren't like them and flaunt them around every four years to remind themselves and each of us how we are not like them. They spew forth the same lies and falsities and divide the country in "base" groups so they can more effectively divide and conquer with the messages that their friends in the media help create.

The 'have-nots', of course, feel like they been cheated and demand that something be done to restore the balance that they naively believe existed a long time ago.

In a nutshell, America is F****D. Voters are pathetic morons who believe whatever lies they hear from those imbeciles on TV or talk radio. They embrace the word "socialism" without the slightest clue as to what it really means. It sounds so cute to them. Ohhhh, socialism.....we'll all be the same. Isn't that wonderful!? We're going to stick it to those fat cats on Wall Street. Oh yeah, we'll show 'em.

You morons. WALL STREET IS ALREADY RUN BY SOCIALISTS!!!! THEY'VE BEEN SETTING YOU UP FOR YEARS. YOU'VE BOUGHT THIS CRAP HOOK, LINE AND SINKER.

America is about to fall. Mark my words.

a reply to: Freenrgy2

I saw this earlier on another site and thought it might be relevant.

The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: greencmp

Thats not a solution.

You cant let them decide when they dont have anything to decide.

How can they live there lifes if there are no jobs for them with no money?

No job = no money

No money = no food

No food= death.

USA has a population just over 300 million.

What happens when there are only 100 million jobs?

What do you do with the other 200 million ?

You cant just let them starve and die.

Its simple maths.

The only thing to decide is lay down and die or take up arms and take by force from the those who do have jobs.

And if 200 million are starving you think those 200 million wont take up arms against the 100 million?
And when it gets to that sort of uprising/revolutions you get catatrophes like the USSR, cuba,revolutionary france and maoist China.

I see so, you are of the mind that people cannot make decisions for themselves.

It's a very popular idea.

WHAT DECISIONS!

No jobs and no saftey net means NO MONEY!

So the only decisions are to quietly die or fight?
And history shows how they choose to fight.

And when the serfs rise up its the middle class like me that end up in the guillotine or in front of the fireing squad while the real elite skip out the country.

So unless you have a bunker, private army,your own island or you want a police state to keep those serfs down your going to need a better plan than just "let them eat cake".

Forgive my possible misinterpretation but, are you saying that not only can people not make decisions but that they actually have no decisions to make?

If you lived in Caracas, would you stay there if you were allowed to escape? Are there inward facing containment fences surrounding your Island?

Have you not considered leaving a place where no employment is possible?

By all means, rise up and take over if you can't escape but, I recommend voting with your feet. A plane ticket is less than a month's rent.

I think your missing the point.

In 25-50 years time there might not be any jobs.....anywere.

Estimates are pretty depressing, they say 75% of jobs could pretty much become obsolete.

I know im safe in my job, i have a high IQ, a good education, skill in a job unlikely to be replaced by robots and if all else fails money to retrain.

But many hard working people wont be.

Im not saying people are incapable of makeing decisions , what im saying is that the only decision will be starve to death or take up arms and take by force.

You really think when in 50 years time when im living like a king on cheaply made products made by robots and 3D Printers and have a life expectancy of 200 the people with out jobs will just settle with starving to death or living in 3rd world squalor?

They will rise up and kill me and take my wealth by force like in every other society that told the masses to "eat cake".

Im in the 1% and that means im out numbered 99 to 1. I dont like those odds.

We cant afford rigid ideological thinking for the future.

They didn't rise up and do that to Mao, they just sat there and starved to death by the hundreds of millions. There was no way for them to organize, they didn't even have pitchforks because they turned all of their tools over to the collective to be smelted for scrap iron. Same thing happened in Ukraine prior to WWII, Stalin took everything for the collective and left the people there to starve in the millions, didn't even leave a potato.

a reply to: vjr1113

I love how they always bring up Venezuela. For the LOLS I guess?

As if we don't have much better examples of DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM under the Nordic model.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

So we need to adopt the mao and stanlist strategy then to keep the starving serfs in check?Brute force and a heavy police state?


Thanks but no thanks.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

So we need to adopt the mao and stanlist strategy then to keep the starving serfs in check?Brute force and a heavy police state?


Thanks but no thanks.

Then you are saying no thanks to what Bernie Sanders brings to the table, it all leads to the same thing.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

So we need to adopt the mao and stanlist strategy then to keep the starving serfs in check?Brute force and a heavy police state?


Thanks but no thanks.

Then you are saying no thanks to what Bernie Sanders brings to the table, it all leads to the same thing.

Never said I supported him.

But we cant think in 100% ideological absolutes either way.

Both modes of rigid thinking will lead to disaster.


A country that refuses to adapt to changing times and conditions die. Its why the French monarchy failed, its why Russia failled, its why the USSR failed ect all refused to be flexible.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

They didn't rise up and do that to Mao, they just sat there and starved to death by the hundreds of millions. There was no way for them to organize, they didn't even have pitchforks because they turned all of their tools over to the collective to be smelted for scrap iron. Same thing happened in Ukraine prior to WWII, Stalin took everything for the collective and left the people there to starve in the millions, didn't even leave a potato.

Yep, and the ability for the people to protect themselves was taken away from them. You know, like these days gun-grabbers like Sanders, Hillary, Soros, the Gates family, and Oprah among others want to take from us.

In order for socialism to take full control over a nation, the right to bear arms of that nation has to be taken away.
Under the pretense of we have to save the children and ban all firearms the dismantling of our Second Amendment has been enforced.

The gun-grabbers will continue to enforce their will until no law abiding citizen owns a weapon. Then the State can take full control, and the people who believed the State would serve them, will be slaves to the very system that claimed would save everyone and the planet...

If an avowed socialist is elected president of the United States, then I hope everyone realizes FINALLY that we no longer live under a constitutional republic. I think most people think that we still have this thing called democracy. Electing a socialist or, heck, a progressive, is akin to nullifying every precept that this country was founded on.

originally posted by: crazyewok
A country that refuses to adapt to changing times and conditions die. Its why the French monarchy failed, its why Russia failled, its why the USSR failed ect all refused to be flexible.

But at what cost? How far do you bend "democracy" to adapt to culture that's been implemented by design in order to create a slave state. The problem isn't adapting, the problem has been the slow leak that "WE THE PEOPLE" have been too damn afraid to plug for the past 100 years.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

What economic philosopher are you using to come to the end goal of socialism is communism. Go...

"The goal of socialism is communism."

-Vladimir Lenin

Awesome elephant in the room the Sanders sheeple are in complete ignorant denial of.

It's being added to my sig now.

It's amazing isn't it.

They just keep on denying the truth and when the absurdity reaches its zenith, they will just say they were for it all along.

We have a whole generation of social justice berserkers suffering from incurable neurobiological damage.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
"Democratic socialists would have government inject itself into the financial system and take control of natural resources to help the broader populace before private profit."

Sounds fricken fine to me. Screw the capitalist oligarchy & addiction to slavery.

People act like our corrupt Congress won't steal us blind(er) under a (more) socialist system.

It's not like we can trust those spending the money.