The Truth of Sanders is That He Is a Socialist.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Meaning loss of private property rights...right?

Socialists really have no idea of what the 14th amendment says.

Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

No person(s) shall be deprived of life,LIBERTY or property.

Or be denied EQUAL protection under the LAW.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

You want socialism, of course you think it's a horrible example.

But it doesn't change the truth.

It was a horrible example.

Socialism means more government control.

You can't change it back.

Why not?

The only way that it has ever been revered is through violence and revolution.

Unless you can show me where slaves have "voted" to get their chains removed.

You're not grasping what I am talking about. I'm not saying we need to adopt a government or economy based on 100% socialism. We simply need to socialize certain aspects of our most important needs.

If it doesn't work, shut the program down.

It's not that complicated.

'Shut the program down".

Nothing the government starts, ever gets shut down.

It's naïve to even think you can "vote" yourself free from government control.

The Truth of Sanders is That He Is a Socialist

I can't see that he even tries to hide this.

Socialism is something of a recurring visitation.
We had it growling during the Great Depression.
We had it protesting during the Hippie Peace Movement.
We see it today from folks who haven't much connectivity to history.
We'll likely see it again in some generational malsponce of the future.

Some forms of Socialism have good upsides but, all by itself? It is a complete failure.

IMESHO, that is

...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: greencmp

Anything from this century?

Lenin was not a philosopher. Nor did he understand what Marx wrote. Or he wouldn't have tried to create communism in a peasant culture.

What VEHICLE....mode or MEANS production would fuel COMMUNISM?

There's only one. As there are only TWO modes of production so far in 2016.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Yes, taxation along with cuts to other areas that are wasteful or useless. We would have to change some priorities and in doing so we may be able to lower taxes. Depends on how willing we are to cut the fat.

As for the specifics, that is a much bigger topic but I will just say that I am not for the full-blown socialism many fear.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Did you read the manifesto?

a reply to: introvert

As for the specifics, that is a much bigger topic but I will just say that I am not for the full-blown socialism many fear.

We ALL saw socialism at work in Spain,Greece,the UK, and other EU countries.

IT DOES NOT WORK.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Yes, taxation along with cuts to other areas that are wasteful or useless. We would have to change some priorities and in doing so we may be able to lower taxes. Depends on how willing we are to cut the fat.

As for the specifics, that is a much bigger topic but I will just say that I am not for the full-blown socialism many fear.

1) Tax who? What rate? How long? Who gets the redistribution?

You realize that CENTRAL control of our currency has us in 20 TRILLION dollars debt?

2) But....you called yourself a "Socialist"?

You can't be half pregnant or half drunk.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Did you read the manifesto?

]

Yes, tell me where I am in error

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I already explained how. Changing priorities and taxation.

Bourgeois and Proletarians

I have.

It's where the left/socialists/communist class warfare snip comes from.

www.marxists.org...

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I already explained how. Changing priorities and taxation.

You don't know what you're doing here, do you?

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's naïve to even think you can "vote" yourself free from government control.

The Founding Fathers were naive then. They gave the people the power to change what they want. They also gave us a 2nd amendment right to bring the government back down to Earth if needed.

The real problem here is not capitalism or socialism. It's lazy people that are afraid to make changes in their government but will still bitch and complain about how votes don't matter.

It can be done and we have the system in place that lets us do it.

I can also go one further.

I'm a book and media seller. I sell roughly 500 books a month. Multiple copies of the Manifesto at home.

Also picked up a SIGNED Hunter S Thompson book this morning for just 50 cents. It's worth over $1,000

I LOVE Capitalism. And you or Bernie won't see ANY of the transaction.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: greencmp

Anything from this century?

Lenin was not a philosopher. Nor did he understand what Marx wrote. Or he wouldn't have tried to create communism in a peasant culture.

Holy macaroni! International Marxism is communism.

I was kind of joking to myself that someone wouldn't consider Lenin an authority on communism but, I was joking. Are you?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I already explained how. Changing priorities and taxation.

You don't know what you're doing here, do you?

What you are asking me to do would take many posts touching on many issues and aspects. You're asking for something that is not as simple as you would like it to be.

But I will give you credit for not being one to waste a perfect opportunity to be obnoxious.

Well played.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Sure communism was to come from an over throw of government by the workers in a proletariat dictatorship. An immediate wae against capitalism. Before they Started doling out their goods and property.

That doesn't sound like democratic socialism. You may need to read some more modern philosophers that aren't from 150 years ago for that. Maybe Clark or Keynes.

Again I am not a supporter of national socialism. Just pointing out there isn't currently a party that has an alternative.

They laughed at RonPaul for years. Even when he was right.

a reply to: introvert

They also gave us a 2nd amendment right to bring the government back down to Earth if needed.

Oh please the second is a shell of it's former existence.

So are you really ready to wage war against government over of all things MONEY, simply because a minority has more than you ?

Of all reasons not to pick up arms against the state that ranks right up there of reason NOT to.

Now TAXATION without representation like socialists push is a vaild reason to.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I already explained how. Changing priorities and taxation.

You don't know what you're doing here, do you?

What you are asking me to do would take many posts touching on many issues and aspects. You're asking for something that is not as simple as you would like it to be.

But I will give you credit for not being one to waste a perfect opportunity to be obnoxious.

Well played.

Dude, I'm TOTALLY obnoxious. I make no bones about that.

Now back to my questions of HOW

a reply to: greencmp

Yeah I know but its not democratic socialism. That has another completely different branch of philosophers.

Lennin did completely ignore a crucial part of Marx's theory. There was very little industry in Russia. Big problem.