When you say, "start at the bottom", what do you mean?

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's a matter of what compensation you receive at a base that makes the difference. The bottom doesn't need to be a struggle to live with no time for family and friends. We've got the ability to raise the bar.

Instead the divide between the rich and the poor gets bigger and bigger. The bar was raising, but now it's going down worldwide rapidly.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: VanGcouverite

Honestly the best and brightest get weeded out in elementary school. Anyone who thought outside of the box and stuck to their guns got put on Ritalin and their lives ruined. Everyone else was assimilated or crushed.

Ain't that the God damned truth

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Puppylove

Where should people start?

I think starting at a level equal to your skill/experience level is reasonable.

Nobody disagrees with that.

Okay.

We're trying to get you to engage in a conversation covering a more diverse range of topics.

Like what? I thought this thread was created because you didn't want to start at an entry level (bottom) position.

a reply to: VanGcouverite

I know I was weeded out and put on Ritalin for years before I woke up at 12 and began refusing.

I was massively talented as an athlete and incredibly intelligent but couldn't get in line.

Not to long ago there were opportunities for people to move up in society without needing a college degree. My step father and my buddy both make $25 an hour and they never graduated high school. I'm from Detroit after WW2 my grandparents worked in the factories around here. My grandfather had an 8th grade education. When he retired in 1990 he was making $20 an hour. He retired with a full pension. I went to work in the same factories in the late 90's. I started out cleaning toilets making $8 an hour. Within 5 years I was making $16 an hour.

In 2005 I watched entire industrial complexes disappear over night. I'm not talking about the burned out factories of the inner city from the 1940's. I worked in tool and die and auto related jobs. We started getting die's in from China with Chinese writing all over the crates. I asked my supervisor what was up with it. It cost $100,000 or more to make a die here. They could have one made in China for $2000 get it shipped here and fix it up. This was a top tier auto supplier I worked for. Over night there were empty factories every where. I know because I was out applying and looking for work. I saw for sale signs everywhere from banks foreclosing. In my 40 years I never saw anything like it.

Most of these companies promoted from within and offered apprenticeship programs. If you could learn a skill you could make a living wage and not need much more then some high school. A lot of the jobs were skilled and hands on and you need to be trained. I was a sheet metal model maker. I made parts for high end cars like the Dodge Viper and Ford GT. After the parts came out of the press I had to hammer form them and work any imperfections out of the part by hand. The parts weren't just stamped and thrown on the car I had to metal finish them.

Most of these jobs are gone. Everything that can be outsourced has been. Our middle class has been decimated by having to compete with Chinese slave labor.

Apple make $400,000 profit per employee annually. Walmart make $6000 per employee. Why should the CEO's of Apple and other companies be aloud to exploit Chinese slave labor but yet enjoy all of the freedoms and perks of being American while contributing nothing to this country? Over a billion cell phones in the world and not one of them made here.

a reply to: onequestion

I hear ya,its messed up ...

You want it itemized. huh? Fine:

1. Honestly assessing your own skill set.
   
2. Honestly assess tour best traits and natural talents.
   
3. Research and evaluate what the needed skills will be in 5-10 years. This is not impossible, it takes work, and initiative to gather the information. Google actually makes is a lot easier than it used to be.
   
4. Compare the research you've done to the skill sets you currently have.
   
5. Compare the research you've done to your best traits and natural talents.
   
6. Find the best match that utilizes your best talents and skill set that has the highest earning potential.
   
7. Determine if additional training is needed to close any gaps in skills or talents. This could be from certifications to full college degrees.
   
8. Research what it would take to get that training (if needed).
   
9. Research potential employers that match your skill sets, that have a demand, are in a growth industry projected from 5 - 10 years in the future.
   
10. Find employers (or start your own company) that are the best/closest match.
    
11. If additional training is needed, find an employer(s) that will help subsidize that training by some percentage.
    
12. Research those employers to learn as much about their products and work culture. This will give you an edge over other applicants if you can speak their language and talk about their products/services at an interview.
    
13. JUST DO IT!
    
14. DO NOT GIVE UP!
    
15. Repeat as many times as necessary.
    
    Hope that outline helps you understand what it takes to not start at a "bottom level" position.
    
    

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Puppylove

Where should people start?

I think starting at a level equal to your skill/experience level is reasonable.

Nobody disagrees with that.

Okay.

We're trying to get you to engage in a conversation covering a more diverse range of topics.

Like what? I thought this thread was created because you didn't want to start at an entry level (bottom) position.

No I've already start at the bottom and worked my way up that time is gone for me.

I knew this was coming based on your response.

i actually retain the ability to have conversations on topics I find important. I know it's hard to do. But I'm glad you totally missed the point!

Please read puppyloves responses she's on point.

a reply to: Puppylove

Then I'd ask for 100K / year.

Why bother struggling?

Why not just start at the top end?

This idea that people can't make it, and that people shouldn't start at the bottom anymore is ridiculous.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Puppylove

Then I'd ask for 100K / year.

Why bother struggling?

Why not just start at the top end?

This idea that people can't make it, and that people shouldn't start at the bottom anymore is ridiculous.

Yes it is. Additionally, this bull crap of boo hoo blame game that the reason you are doing bad is somehow someone else's fault.

Ok, forget the past. You don't need a degree, go get you CCNA or CCNP and go make money.

Not hard...

If you cannot go get a CCNA right now, go to the contracting agencies, take some free telecommunications, management, IT, and operations classes to pad your resume and get a job in the telecommunications or IT field.

a reply to: wantsome

Don't pay attention and speak the truth!

a reply to: infolurker
CCNA and CCNP will actually net you a nice paying job.

But your missing the point like cowboy.

You must also be living in a world that probably did exist prior to 2001.

a reply to: onequestion

Do you think that people shouldn't struggle?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Puppylove

Then I'd ask for 100K / year.

Why bother struggling?

Why not just start at the top end?

This idea that people can't make it, and that people shouldn't start at the bottom anymore is ridiculous.

You didn't even address any of the points she made you just went right back to your knee jerk reaction of, "oh why do you get handed a mansion on day 1?"

Or the robot response, "there's plenty of work for everyone even though 50 million people can't make enough money to live on without government assistance.

Because they are lazy right?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: onequestion

Do you think that people shouldn't struggle?

I think people should struggle way less then they do right now you better believe it.

originally posted by: onequestion
Well, in my opinion and experience this isn't true. First off, we all know opportunities are given not based on merit but based on your social network. This has long been the case. In fact I've never seen it work any differently in my entire life.

Really? What sector do you work in or experienced? It sounds like you are applying your very narrow experience and wide brushing all. Have you ever thought that the sector you have experience in sucks...lol

Is it possible to start on the bottom in today's world and sill be able to support yourself without having a support network?

What do you mean by support network?

Is it possible to start at 9$ an hour and survive for years while working your way up?

And what job(s) is that again? I agree there are many crap jobs, but do you need to stay in that range for years?

Is it pointless to get a degree and make 15$ an hour while paying rent and college loans?

What kind of degree? There are a lot of pointless degrees. Is it pointless to become an electrical apprentice with no degree and make 60k after a few years?

Is it worth it to live in the modern world if your anything but rich or have we built a world that serves only the wealthy elite?

I'm not any where close to rich and I live a nice life...just saying...

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: infolurker
CCNA and CCNP will actually net you a nice paying job.

But your missing the point like cowboy.

You must also be living in a world that probably did exist prior to 2001.

The world and job market are ever changing. You have to adapt and in my case relocate numerous times.

Many industries have had booms and busts, telecommunications included.

You must be able to accept change and adapt to an ever changing market. Your skills today may be useless tomorrow. You need to be aware of trends and forecasts about your industry and position yourself for success.


The days of pensions are over due to foreign competition and lack of tariffs. Only the public sector can afford that.

a reply to: Xtrozero

What world do you live in where there's enough skilled positions for the entire country to work in without having to have all of the low paying # jobs filled?

Is there 74 million kids who want to work here or am I missing something?

originally posted by: onequestion

Honestly the best and brightest get weeded out in elementary school. Anyone who thought outside of the box and stuck to their guns got put on Ritalin and their lives ruined. Everyone else was assimilated or crushed.

Man I love that...A lot less competition for my kids who I raised right... I hate it when super smart and talented people go up against me for a job...lol

originally posted by: onequestion
Is there 74 million kids who want to work here or am I missing something?

I can't answer for 74 million. I can only answer for myself and my kids and there are no issues there at all.