"Why do non-Christians come here?" Here's why -

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Klassified

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Or you really don't understand the analogy and/or what you just posted? If the latter, then I can't help you any. Seems plain enough to me.

Did the guy not say they do what they do because they perceive Christians as doing the same thing? Another member mentioned reciprocity. It's this tit-for-tat playground bulls# I'm referring to when I use the word "childish".

What other answer to his own question did he give? "You're in my face, so I'm going to get in yours." He may as well have said as much.

No. That's not what he's saying. That's what you want to see, because it confirms your bias. And I'm going to leave you to it.

The funny thing is that Santa exists.
You all just missed your chance to see him.
He was at a lot of shopping malls a few weeks ago.
There are photos of him too.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It's like Santa insofar as people might eventually grow up and stop talking about it, but the strangest thing is many non-believers continue to do so, to the point where they are nearly indiscernible from the believer.

Non-Christians spending their time preaching to Christians about God and church is an irony worth noting. So much devotion to contemplating God or the bible or Christians—it almost sounds like a new sect of Christianity.

then what you are doing, spending your time preaching to non believers about preaching to believers? the agnostic wags their finger at the atheist wagging their finger at the theist. or in other words, the irony continues.

welcome to the holey trinity.

a reply to: rukia

But how dare you say that Christians don't accept other people when it is you not accepting Christians? That was a stupid article. The logic was full of holes. What a load of bull. Yeah, you're being so altruistic I'm sure. Right. Then act like it. Then maybe the Christians won't mind anymore because you'll be on the same page as them. Just sayin'.

Did you actually read the article? Doesn't sound like you did

In a way - you've proved the OP's point

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I understand why you did some thinking before posting this Buzzy - it wasn't very likely that it would be taken in the spirit in which it was given

But, I thought about it a lot last night

People think that it's wrong to want to live in a world where we're all free to believe what we want to believe without imposing our own beliefs on others

Some of us live in a world where culture and laws are based on a belief that we don't all see exactly the same. If you touch on that in any way - even just to state your own beliefs - then it's seen as an attack

Everything that follows is pretty predictable

Your OP was pretty non-threatening - and kinda sweet

I know you knew what you were getting into. It's relentless

:-)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Allah is just the same...... God, Jesus, Allah ----- all the same thing as Santa.

I have nothing against your tuning in to this program. In fact I would welcome you to join in discussion. You certainly could use the education from your above statement. The first thing you should realize in your quest to educate the masses is that Christianity, Judaism and Islam are not the same deity. Jesus was and is not God and Allah is no part of Christianity.

a reply to: spirit_horse

but when did the US use religion to go to war? I am honestly asking because I haven't really thought that was the case.

G W Bush declared war on Iraq because "God told him to."

The world is mainly filled with theists of one flavor or another, and everything they do, every choice they make is affected in one way or another by their beliefs in a supernatural/paranormal authoritarian god figure.

And as we all have to live on this rock together such beliefs affect us all, theist or atheist, to varying degrees.

So to not expect people that do not share your beliefs to voice their opinions and concerns (especially in a public forum..) is just unrealistic.

However for me personally i'm fascinated by theists and their apparent belief in gods and other such creatures, and how they're able to apparently maintain this belief in the face of cold hard reality.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

It is. Relentless.

I just now got caught up on the thread, and it's interesting how it has evolved.

Sometimes I wonder (more and more often lately) why I come here. There are several reasons -

but I am interested, most of all, in the human condition and human behavior. Religious zeal is a phenomenon that puzzles me, and intrigues me. The way it is wielded towards children is my utmost concern.

As a "SJW" and a 'crusader' on behalf of the children, it is very important to me that adults, who have every right to believe whatever they want, refrain from indoctrinating their children into thinking that they are worthless sinners and anyone who doesn't agree with what Mom and Dad believe is going to burn in hell. The child taught that he or she will "burn in hell" unless they "believe" (read: BEHAVE) is being mistreated. In My Opinion. So, I speak up about it.

So, I monitor what goes on amongst the various sects of "believers" and how they pass on their beliefs to the next generation.

Thanks for being here!

a reply to: Prezbo369

Precisely how I see it, too - except add in the damage done to very young children in the name of these 'beliefs', and I become less dispassionate about it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I probably shouldn't even be posting in this thread because I honestly can't relate.

I read the article, but I have never lived in, or even visited a place such as the one described, so it seems as far fetched to me as the statement made.

If you think this all sounds ridiculous or farfetched, this is exactly what it’s like living in large portions of the United States for people who aren’t Christians. This is why we keep engaging in public discussions about God. It’s because this idea—which other people seem to think isn’t any of our business—is all up in our business every day of our lives. That makes it our business.

I am no fan of religion. I understand why some people are believers and I understand why some aren't. Neither has any impact on me what so ever.

I have never had anyone cramming religion down my throat, or torturing me with religious music of any kind. I have never even tripped through an area were Christianity was so all encompassing, that I felt it was my business to tell people that they are wrong to believe in their God or their religion.

I have traveled, lived , and worked, all over the US. I have visited quite a few countries. I have never been so overwhelmed by people of any religion, that I felt that It was necessary for me to enforce or educate them to my reason for not believing the same way they do.

On the rare occasion that religion comes up among my friends or family, I m no more offended or hurt, than I am when we can't agree on what sports team is the greatest, or which actor played James Bond best.

Personal choices are just that. I feel no need to force my personal choices on anyone else, and I have never had anyone attempt to force theirs on me.

I comment on this for the same reason that I comment on most of these kind of threads. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, but it seems that Atheist seem to have a bee up their bonnet about Christians that just seems so over the top. They seem to think that Christians are out to get them and they will use any means available, any means, to stick it to those vile Christians.

If the person that wrote that article really feels that they are under attack by Christians and that all of their world is saturated with vile Christians, than they need to move. I can assure you that they will not have to move far, because our world is not so saturated with religious or God fearing people as to make such a negative impact in their life. If anything, I think it won't take them long if they leave that Christian enclave of such daily misery, before they will realize we need a lot more of them.

a reply to: Seede

The first thing you should realize in your quest to educate the masses is that Christianity, Judaism and Islam are not the same deity.

They all sprang from the "One God" concept that preceded and, if you will, "spawned" them.

I will ignore your implication that I am 'uneducated' in this topic, and instead provide you with a handful of the MANY authorities whose work I have examined and absorbed (listed in no particular order except as they come to mind):

William James
Carl Jung
Karen Armstrong
Robert Wright

If you are equipped to do so, I'd very much enjoy discussing the works of these thinkers.
Thanks

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: nwtrucker

Or put another way......they dump on Christians, then they dump on Santa.

But, odd, isn't it......they never dump on Allah.

Do you know what a "red herring" is?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
then what you are doing, spending your time preaching to non believers about preaching to believers? the agnostic wags their finger at the atheist wagging their finger at the theist. or in other words, the irony continues.

welcome to the holey trinity.

No there's only two, theists and atheists.

Just like you either believe or you don't, or either a god exists or it doesn't.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: nwtrucker

Or put another way......they dump on Christians, then they dump on Santa.

But, odd, isn't it......they never dump on Allah.

Someone may have already said this, but it's worth noting again: The Christian, Jewish, and Islamic god are the same--it's only the religions and subsequent believers who have allowed themselves to divide and conquer in the name of the same god.

Point being, an intelligent person would know that if someone "dumps" on the god of one of the Big Three, that person is dumping on all three religions.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I'm glad to hear you were spared the hell-fire, fear, and emotional pummeling that so many parents inflict (in a misguided effort to 'teach' them?) on their own children.

Family Systems are everything when it comes to human development.

originally posted by: butcherguy
The funny thing is that Santa exists.
You all just missed your chance to see him.
He was at a lot of shopping malls a few weeks ago.
There are photos of him too.

And Santa exist in the minds of those that have benefited from the generosity of those that attempt to carry on the spirit of the event.

Being the oldest I found quite early in the game that Santa Claus was really my mother and father. It made the joy of the gifts I received even more special to me, because I knew how hard they worked to make Christmas a happy and loving time for me and my siblings.

Those that don't like Christmas can choose not to participate. As far as the Christmas goes, I see it as no different than the elevator or new age music that you hear in the elevators and businesses. At least their Christmas music is seasonal and ends quickly.

If you hate Christmas music and you can't tune it out, most people have their ear buds, and are disconnected to the real world anyway, so there is always an out.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm glad to hear you were spared the hell-fire, fear, and emotional pummeling that so many parents inflict (in a misguided effort to 'teach' them?) on their own children.

I am sorry I missed something.

I thought the person was complaining that they were being tormented by displays of Christianity permeating every nook and cranny of their life today.

I didn't realize they were lamenting on a childhood were they felt they their parents are responsible for the hell they feel they had to endure during their religious training.

So how does what they endured in their religious training as a child, translate to lashing out at people that had nothing t do with whatever they felt they were forced to endure?

I am sure we all have had unfortunate experiences in our lives as children. Many of those experiences follow us into adulthood, and may even play a huge part in the kind of person we become. I just don't see how that becomes an excuse for projecting your misfortune unto others, that you don't know, and had nothing to do with your ill experiences.

Every child that is brought up in a religious home does not have the experience that this individual had, and I think it is wrong to blame all religious households for what happened to them as a child. I think it wrong that this individual thinks that it gives them the right to cast those aspersions or the right to make it their business to do so.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You pulled out the Santa Claus comparison....



That's bound to get some strong reactions, I've long since stopped using it because it usually shuts any kind of dialogue down before it can begin.

While I agree with the comparison, starting a conversation of with a perceived insult (because that is what the Santa comparison is seen as -- an insult) ... will get nowhere.

If someone wants to discuss something with you and comes at you with an insult right off the bat, does that make you want to calmly discuss or just walk away?

And while I think it's a bit hyper sensitive to take offense over the Santa comparison, I still respect people's right to be offended (stuff might offend me that doesn't offend them, after all).

The fact of the matter is -- both sides won't ever walk away satisfied, not until one side caves and believes what the other does. It's kind of pointless to argue is God real or not, is Jesus a real person or not...those people want/need to believe it, and those other people want/need to stop having it shoved down their throat.

I think the best thing is to just go about whatever it is you do, without trying to "sell" your beliefs to others. If your beliefs are awesome, they'll sell themselves. A good product doesn't need a bunch of marketing, a good product flies off the shelf because its...a good product!

The same with atheism or religion. If a religion is simply awesome, people won't be able to sign up fast enough.

If atheism is so amazing, people won't be able to convert quickly enough.

*sigh* Believe whatever the hell you want I guess, as long as you don't try to sell it to me like a sleazy used car salesmen on commission.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

First off, Santa is a bad analogy, since we all know Santa is real. With that out of the way, here's my thought...

In most cases, I believe it is the useless participation which bugs people. If a non-believer participated in the subject matter from a perspective of, "what I think this means is..." or "what I think is wrong with the way people interpret this is..." Followed by a useful explanation, nobody would care whether the person was a believer or not.

The problem lies with a majority of the discussion from "non-believers" going something like this:

It's meaningless because it's just something a sheepherder in antiquity wrote about a fairytale bearded guy in the sky, eventually landing in a book of fairytales called the Bible.

Why the incapability to simply discuss the points, regardless of whether one believes or not, IMO, is a matter of small-minded foolishness. If a person is too blinded by their hate of religion to be able to interpret symbology, allegory & musings on morality, they likely aren't going to contribute anything useful (including counter arguments.) Those who can, are welcome to disagree in a discussion with me, on anything in the Bible.

I'm not an Old Testament Christian, but I can still comprehend what and why was written, and thus, be able to disagree with what is written on many points.