"Why do non-Christians come here?" Here's why -

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: windword
I said interpolation, not interpretation.

OK, sorry, but what did you mean by it? You asked me "if your interpretation of some passage is taken to be true". What kind of "interpolation" have you got in mind, if it is neither interpretation of the passage, nor the insertion of off-topic material? If you do mean the insertion of off-topic material, then yes, there is no room for it.

The Bible isn't that cut and dry. There is no one point in which you, or anyone, can say "This is where it starts".

I can certainly say "This is the portion of the Bible that I am discussing in this thread". If I define that passage as James ch1 vv1-15, then that is the topic of the thread.

You pragmatically compartmentalize. In that way you try control the input of those who find holes in and fault with whatever sermon you're trying to preach.

The compartmentalising is done in advance, according to the needs of the subject. Not a reaction to input, because it happens long before anyone starts contributing.
For example, the dozen or so threads of my God's Law series were written and planned out on my calendar, thread by thread, before even the first one appeared on the boards.

BTW, John's supposed definition of antichrist has nothing to do with the Christian message"

He defines an antichrist as "someone who denies that Jesus is the Christ". Sounds like a Christian message to me.

ok this is a bad@ss reply too.
2nd (in agreement)

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: CallYourBluff
No. Nice try.
It isn't a riddle, though.
I'm offering an answer to the perennial question of "why come to these threads if you're not 'Christian."

No the person you are referring has hit the nail on the head.

The very use of "Santa Claus" and "Tooth Fairy" rather than beings like "Zeus" or "Hera" confirms it. No one ever truly thinks that Santa or the Tooth Fairy are real except for when they are very young - children. Those are infantile beliefs.

Contrast that with beings from mythology that have the respected position of having been deities accorded the respect of having been gods believed in like God is believed in, even if those religious beliefs are mostly dead today. This person can't even do that much ... Instead, he accords God a position with the infantile fantasies no one holds beyond childhood.

there is very little practical difference between fidelity to santa claus as a child and fidelity to a chosen deity as an adult. both threaten to punish the naughty, promise to reward the nice, live in a magical place no one has ever found, see everything we do, and are immortal. we send letters to santa, we pray to god, and we expect both to aswer their prayers/letters in an impossible fashion. i admire your dedication, but seriously, rethink your rebuttal.

This too I have to highlight. What about all the 'really really' good kids that are dying every day from cancer, disease and famine. Surely those ones should be helped first? Rather than the ones that thinks an xbox is the be all and end all of life? When does god answer and help the millions of innocent kids that die every week. No seriously, where the #### is he???????
Weak minds infuriate me.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Metallicus

I am not involved in a religion and I certainly find aspects of Christianity silly or non-nonsensical, however, I don't feel the need to get involved in their threads and go out of my way to tell them how I feel.

Why not?
...
World Peace depends on it.

Well, if you think 'world peace' depends on people making fun of or criticizing Christianity and religion in general then we just don't agree. I find governments to be the threat to world peace, not religion.

a reply to: Metallicus

Without religion governments wouldn't be able to justify their wars as easily. I think both are equally dangerous and both feed off of each other. They both run on a hierarchal foundation and that foundation always has and always will lead to those at the top of the pyramid screwing over those at the bottom.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Allah is just the same...... God, Jesus, Allah ----- all the same thing as Santa.

But Santa Claus is based on an actual person who loved gift-giving (Saint Nicholas of Myra). But unfortunately, like the religious ideas of God, based on something real but stories made up for control and greed.

With God, stories are made to create feelings of guilt and fear so that people can be easy to control and guilted into giving the little bit of money they make. Instead of focusing on the Virtue of Love.

With Santa Claus, stories are made to create feelings of guilt and fear to control ("naughty vs nice" list) and to make money instead of focusing on the Virtue of Generosity.

a reply to: OpenEars123

The idea of earning your reward isn't about living longer here.

Some of us have what others would perceive as easier lives here, true. But until you have stepped in that person's shoes, you don't know what their life was really despite what the external perception seemed to be. Robin Williams, to most people, had everything, and yet, he took his own life. Clearly, HE didn't have what he needed or wanted on some level, and no matter how much he seemed to have going for him, it wasn't what made his life bearable to him.

So, do you know what his life was like?

Where was God for him in this life? Clearly, you could say God gave him everything that kid with cancer doesn't have, but it didn't help Robin Williams in the end.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


No, most non believers come to criticize because
they are not so certain in there own lack of faith, to make themselves feel better they have to belittle or tear down the faith of other's so that they don't feel like the outsider anymore and so they seek to persecute the Christian faith.

Why target Christian's, because for many Christianity is a faith which make's the believer question themselves and of course it is the nice one they can get away with bullying unlike Islam or other faith's which are not so tolerant an won't be bullied by the fat angry kid who want's your lunch money and demands that everyone say's he is right even if he himself think's he may be wrong as there added belief in this fat bully's righteousness give's him a kick and make's him feel better about himself.

He will prod and poke the nice kid until the nice kid does something nasty which the fat bully then uses to justify and prove he was right laughing as the nice kid has an angry moment etc.

Not all anti Christian's are like this but a heck of a lot of them are, the truth though is there are many reason's.

Some simply are angry with God so as an act of anger they have decided to NOT believe in god but at a deep level they still do so in order to convince themselves some more they turn and criticize though whom openly revere him and there are many other reason's.

Then there is the legacy of MAINSTREAM scientific BELIEF and how it clashes with old testament doctrine or rather appears too, this too lead's many to lead there own CRUSADE against Christian believers and the Christian faith as they wage there own Holy war using there own RELIGION of mainstream scientific belief to justify there word's and action's.

But make no mistake the worst fight any Christian has is the fight within themselves between what they have been taught in this world is rational and what they have been taught by there faith is the truth, this does not effect there new testament belief but it does torment many as to the old testament.

For me the old testament is Truth, I have tried to bend my scientific rational and then my religious belief but in truth I find I had no need to do so, my faith is in Christ and I accept I know nothing even if I have an almanac of stuff taught and picked up over the decade's as non of that stuff can change my world or save a life but Christ can.

When did you see the religion of Non belief save anyone, when did you see the community of Non believers gather around and pray, I know there are righteous and good people even with no faith whom have done good but what is there legacy, what did they ever really build and what is the fruit of there action's.

How does gutting a civilization and it's people of a faith that tied them together and helped to establish there culture help anyone, how does the chaos of a world of those whom think they are merely animals and so live a "Do as you will" or "ME ME ME" lifestyle ever help anyone.

What make's atheism so attractive when it is such a bitter poison.

a reply to: arpgme

The Bishop of Myra did not have flying reindeers, a gaggle of elves that worked to make toys in the north pole, nor was he omnipresent able to deliver gifts to children worldwide.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: OpenEars123

The idea of earning your reward isn't about living longer here.

Some of us have what others would perceive as easier lives here, true. But until you have stepped in that person's shoes, you don't know what their life was really despite what the external perception seemed to be. Robin Williams, to most people, had everything, and yet, he took his own life. Clearly, HE didn't have what he needed or wanted on some level, and no matter how much he seemed to have going for him, it wasn't what made his life bearable to him.

So, do you know what his life was like?

Where was God for him in this life? Clearly, you could say God gave him everything that kid with cancer doesn't have, but it didn't help Robin Williams in the end.

Robin Williams was a nice guy, or 'seemed' to be from the perception that the media gave us. I liked him, and was sad to see him go.

Innocent 1,2,3 and 4 year old kids don't 'need' to be given a perception in order to be or not be worthy of 'help' Kids (literally all of them) deserve help when they are dying, literally all of them. And that's just innocent kids we're talking about, let alone the amazing adults we all lose daily to disease, famine, murder, rape, torture... Admit it, if there is a god, he is one brutal mother#####r.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Metallicus

Without religion governments wouldn't be able to justify their wars as easily.

What? I don't really see WWII, or any other war the US has fought being based on religion. Communist aggression, terrorists killing innocents, etc, but when did the US use religion to go to war? I am honestly asking because I haven't really thought that was the case. I would hope that would be a reason people would not support the war if it was religion based. Perhaps I am way out in left field. Please explain.

ETA: OK I see you said AS EASILY, but still not sure if that is actually the case.

a reply to: malevolent

yes, you must stay true to your namesake. I only meant thank you for replying you liked what I wrote, you know taking the time to do so and all.

originally posted by: OpenEars123

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: OpenEars123

The idea of earning your reward isn't about living longer here.

Some of us have what others would perceive as easier lives here, true. But until you have stepped in that person's shoes, you don't know what their life was really despite what the external perception seemed to be. Robin Williams, to most people, had everything, and yet, he took his own life. Clearly, HE didn't have what he needed or wanted on some level, and no matter how much he seemed to have going for him, it wasn't what made his life bearable to him.

So, do you know what his life was like?

Where was God for him in this life? Clearly, you could say God gave him everything that kid with cancer doesn't have, but it didn't help Robin Williams in the end.

Robin Williams was a nice guy, or 'seemed' to be from the perception that the media gave us. I liked him, and was sad to see him go.

Innocent 1,2,3 and 4 year old kids don't 'need' to be given a perception in order to be or not be worthy of 'help' Kids (literally all of them) deserve help when they are dying, literally all of them. And that's just innocent kids we're talking about, let alone the amazing adults we all lose daily to disease, famine, murder, rape, torture... Admit it, if there is a god, he is one brutal mother#####r.

Well, I would argue he gave mankind freewill. If he was to impose changes of circumstances it would interfere with freewill. It sucks I agree, but it was spelled out in the beginning. Humans made their own mess and it is those brutal humans that should be blamed for the situation.

a reply to: spirit_horse

Hitler used religion as a reason to kill millions of Jews, the U.S. and other countries intervened. Sounds a lot like today's ISIS doesn't it?

The predominately Christian U.S. and Russia are intervening in the predominately Muslim Middle East today.

While they weren't/aren't "officially" religious wars, religion played a huge part in their longevity. Watch the news and see how long you can go without hearing about Islam in a negative light.

Those in power use religious rhetoric to agitate the masses into supporting their wars. They always have and always will if they have any say about it.

a reply to: arpgme As a Christian, I don't feel any guilt or fear because I trust and believe why Jesus died on the cross, to clear me of my sin's. This doesn't mean I feel that I can go around doing harmful things (or ''sin'') because through the Grace of God that has given me faith, I don't want do the things God doesn't want me to do, like steal, commit adultery, hold hate in my heart, ect.. I also understand that I will never be perfect and through prayer can find heavenly guidance and continued forgiveness. Again, God doesn't want his church to feel scared or guilty, grateful and trusting in him but not guilty or scared.

originally posted by: spirit_horse

originally posted by: OpenEars123

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: OpenEars123

The idea of earning your reward isn't about living longer here.

Some of us have what others would perceive as easier lives here, true. But until you have stepped in that person's shoes, you don't know what their life was really despite what the external perception seemed to be. Robin Williams, to most people, had everything, and yet, he took his own life. Clearly, HE didn't have what he needed or wanted on some level, and no matter how much he seemed to have going for him, it wasn't what made his life bearable to him.

So, do you know what his life was like?

Where was God for him in this life? Clearly, you could say God gave him everything that kid with cancer doesn't have, but it didn't help Robin Williams in the end.

Robin Williams was a nice guy, or 'seemed' to be from the perception that the media gave us. I liked him, and was sad to see him go.

Innocent 1,2,3 and 4 year old kids don't 'need' to be given a perception in order to be or not be worthy of 'help' Kids (literally all of them) deserve help when they are dying, literally all of them. And that's just innocent kids we're talking about, let alone the amazing adults we all lose daily to disease, famine, murder, rape, torture... Admit it, if there is a god, he is one brutal mother#####r.

Well, I would argue he gave mankind freewill. If he was to impose changes of circumstances it would interfere with freewill. It sucks I agree, but it was spelled out in the beginning. Humans made their own mess and it is those brutal humans that should be blamed for the situation.

Blame the humans for all the diseases and famine?
I don't think so, I think it's nature. But to those who believe in an omnipresent deity, you should take the blame of your creator. Why worship him/it otherwise???

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Metallicus

Without religion governments wouldn't be able to justify their wars as easily. I think both are equally dangerous and both feed off of each other. They both run on a hierarchal foundation and that foundation always has and always will lead to those at the top of the pyramid screwing over those at the bottom.

Umm, what about the millions of people killed in the communist vs capitalist proxy wars & wars for independence during the Cold War? Governments regularly wage wars over nationalism, trade deals, defense contracts, and geopolitical posturing. There will always be excuses for international powerbrokers to wage new wars, religion or not.

In fact, the "Gulf of Tonkin incident" (Vietnam War), weapons of mass destruction argument (Iraq War), and sinking of the Lusitania (WWI) are the reasons used to justify American involvement in 3 of the biggest wars we've ever been in. And neither of those justifications has anything to do with religion.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Look at it any way you like, would it not be absurd for me, as a non-Buddhist, to set about defining Buddhist concepts?

Christians do it everyday. Try checking out any reincarnation thread and see how far you get before some Christian comes in and tells everyone that they're following Satan!

a reply to: OpenEars123

Do you want to live your own life or have God live it for you?

If he solves all of our problems, the ones in our control as well the ones outside them, then at what point is your life your own to live?

The point of this existence is to see what you make of it on your own. What are your choices? How do you handle what life throws at you?

If you have God saving you from every bump, then you never will know.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: spirit_horse

Hitler used religion as a reason to kill millions of Jews, the U.S. and other countries intervened. Sounds a lot like today's ISIS doesn't it?

The predominately Christian U.S. and Russia are intervening in the predominately Muslim Middle East today.

While they weren't/aren't "officially" religious wars, religion played a huge part in their longevity. Watch the news and see how long you can go without hearing about Islam in a negative light.

Those in power use religious rhetoric to agitate the masses into supporting their wars. They always have and always will if they have any say about it.

I can agree that the regions involved are of a particular religion, but I don't agree the US used a Christian rhetoric to stay in there. It was fighting an insurgency that was bound and determined to establish themselves in power. Russia has large populations of both Muslims and Christians. Hard to convince their people of religion being why they are there to defend their interests if protecting their ally and their military bases. Terrorism is what they claim to have got involved over. The US actually regime change in several countries. Christians in the US are under attack by the US government, calling them the number 1 terrorist threat. They seem to defend Muslims more.

Hitler, thought Jews were inferior and the cause of their economic problems. I don't think it was the religious beliefs of Jews that he exterminated them over. Saying that, there have been religious wars, like the Crusades and the Muslims prior to the Crusades is why the Pope got involved and ordered the Crusades. Islam had moved through North Africa and up into Europe with their usual brutality and oppression. However, modern wars I don't think have been the cause of longevity. The longevity has been due to the combat environment on the ground.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I never said religion is the only way they justify their wars only that they have and will continue to use religion to justify their wars as long as they find it useful.

Will they use religion every time? No, but it has been a motivating factor in many many wars throughout history, including today in the Middle East. There are huge religious undertones behind the war in the Middle East today and the media capitalizes on it every day with their rhetoric.