Students protest transgender invasion of privacy

a reply to: Xtrozero

Though I have yet to see it, but if a transgender male wanted to go into the male locker room being anatomically female I would find that much more awkward as he jumped into the shower next to me.

Bringing it back to the OP, the girls do not seem to be concerned with the anatomy of the person:

They would tell the world why allowing a transgender student to see them in a state of undress would be an invasion of their personal privacy.

Which brings it back around to...were they unconcerned that lesbians, who could be sexually attracted to them, had been seeing them in a state of undress all along?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
Perhaps but that is also a situation where those affected had prior knowledge of the birth status of the "offender" in question. Not the same scenario when a Trans woman (myself) uses the facilities while minding my own business and none of the supposedly "terrified" ladies even take notice. Out of sight, out of mind, no harm no foul, what they don't know won't hurt them and so on and so forth.

Agree, but what if you had to take a shower in a common showroom as in this case that I think fits as part of a high school gym locker room. I have seen transgender in male locker rooms and outside of a female hairdo and a bra there wasn't much of a thought to it because the person was basically anatomically male. Though I have yet to see it, but if a transgender male wanted to go into the male locker room being anatomically female I would find that much more awkward as he jumped into the shower next to me.

And that right there is the tricky part and why there is no black-and-white answer. It all depends on the stage the transperson is in their transition. A transwoman who has been living as a woman for years, is post-op, and in all appearances looks like any cisgender woman out there, wouldn't be raising any red flags with other women in the locker room but this issue still lumps her in the same group.

You can't have a blanket law regarding transfolks when it comes to locker room or restroom drama and have everybody be content with it. There will have to be a long period of social education and a larger number of people being accurately informed on the subject before it can progress logically. Until then, people are still basing their knowledge of transgender people on outdated cliches and media stereotypes that were never intended to be accurate and normally inserted to make the transperson the butt of some delightfully bigoted movie gag.

By the way, dig the Bowie lyrics in your signature. Amazing song.

All I can really say on this from a personal perspective is that I grew up male all through school. I was never comfortable with changing let alone showering in school. Middle school we were not required to shower after P.E. so none of us did but I was still uncomfortable changing probably and Ironically I had a less than masculine build than the others. Isn't that strange that I would feel insecure around bigger more developed males yet I did what I had to do.

High school I was still tiny and undeveloped and we were supposed to shower but the majority never really did mostly just the jock and proud of their highly and early developed bodies did. I learned after my mistake in freshman year to schedule my P.E. as my last class so that I I could skip the shower and jump straight on the bus and go home to clean myself up. I think all I can provide from this insight is that a lot of kids are uncomfortable being unclothed around others no matter if it is with their own gender.

Lets say for example that schools had curtains or whatever dividing spaces and there was a Transgender student who had not been "championed" and put out for all to know their business using the facilities. I don't think their would be any problems. It's almost the same as Adam and Eve not knowing they were supposed to be ashamed of their own nakedness until someone told them to feel that way.

a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

Transgender is not about sex. If sex is an issue for you, then it is lesbians you should be concerned about.

I hate the competition...

When I was in the service we had a transgender that went to the gym, and even taught a few aerobic classes. She, formally a he, would change in the men's locker room and no one had an issue with it, and we are talking a military base too, so what is the justification for them to change in the female locker room if they are anatomically male? I see little difference in them being upset to change in the male locker room compare to women who are upset that they change in the female locker room.

Should you be forced to use a woman's locker room (no jokes please).

Suppose it's a locker room for large intimidating female body builders/weight lifters that like to circle around you and make sexist and sarcastic taunts.

The Transgender brain (and whatever else), is not about identifying with your physical anatomy.

originally posted by: Phage
Bringing it back to the OP, the girls do not seem to be concerned with the anatomy of the person:

So I guess I'm missing the point to all this...hehe

Which brings it back around to...were they unconcerned that lesbians, who could be sexually attracted to them, had been seeing them in a state of undress all along?

I guess the way I was looking at this was not so much a sexual things as a physical thing. I could understand a young female would have concerns with a mature naked anatomically male person taking a shower next to them.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
Lets say for example that schools had curtains or whatever dividing spaces and there was a Transgender student who had not been "championed" and put out for all to know their business using the facilities. I don't think their would be any problems. It's almost the same as Adam and Eve not knowing they were supposed to be ashamed of their own nakedness until someone told them to feel that way.

28 years in the military and I never enjoyed being naked around a bunch of guys, so join the club...hehe

I said in a earlier post we are not there yet to fully support all of this. As I look at my two kids 12 and 15 they seem to take all this in as normal since they have grown up with it where a person like me had to be educated at a much later date in life.

4 years in the military, never had time to think about it. At least in boot camp in the fleet it wan't really an issue.

a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

Should you be forced to use a woman's locker room (no jokes please).

Suppose it's a locker room for large intimidating female body builders/weight lifters that like to circle around you and make sexist and sarcastic taunts.

You say no joke and then you add the second line...lol I'm 6'5" 290 so I can handle the non-puny women...

The Transgender brain (and whatever else), is not about identifying with your physical anatomy.

I do not know the answer but like everything else how do they handle some guy making sexist remarks to women in the schools? The reason I do not know the answer is who's concerns take priority, the transgender or the women that do not want to see a anatomically correct male naked? It might be mental for the transgender but it is physical for the women. Are you saying it should be OK for a young female to look at/be around a naked mature anatomically correct male because the person identifies as a female?

Are you saying it should be OK for a young female to look at be around a mature anatomically correct male because the person identifies as a female?

I understand this bit here and agree that most adolescent females would be uncomfortable being exposed to male genitalia. If it were me in a situation like this I personally would have been fine with a separate area which I believe the girl in question in this case was provided. However she still felt alienated and pushed for further inclusion. It is scenarios such as this that I think in the case of the offended being the trans person they should stop being so sensitive and dismissive of the accommodations that have been made for them. So here I will say that this person is perhaps a bit selfish (but aren't most teens, I'm not a parent so I wouldn't know) on the grounds that accommodations were made for them yet they would push for more despite others feelings.

I also smell the work of attention hungry parents behind both camps to be hones.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

Should you be forced to use a woman's locker room (no jokes please).

Suppose it's a locker room for large intimidating female body builders/weight lifters that like to circle around you and make sexist and sarcastic taunts.

You say no joke and then you add the second line...lol I'm 6'5" 290 so I can handle the non-puny women...

The Transgender brain (and whatever else), is not about identifying with your physical anatomy.

I do not know the answer but like everything else how do they handle some guy making sexist remarks to women in the schools? The reason I do not know the answer is who's concerns take priority, the transgender or the women that do not want to see a anatomically correct male naked? It might be mental for the transgender but it is physical for the women. Are you saying it should be OK for a young female to look at/be around a naked mature anatomically correct male because the person identifies as a female?

Is there any incident of a high school girl seeing the privates of a m/f transgender in the locker room?

As far as I know, from reading, the m/f transgender would be more horrified then the girls.

In my high school locker room (1960s) there were a couple private curtained stalls.

These stalls were assigned by permission. Usually for the disabled or someone who had an issue. But, they were in the same locker room.

Do locker rooms today not have any private stalls?

originally posted by: Annee
In my high school locker room (1960s) there were a couple private curtained stalls.

These stalls were assigned by permission. Usually for the disabled or someone who had an issue. But, they were in the same locker room.

Do locker rooms today not have any private stalls?

From the OP

They would tell the world why allowing a transgender student to see them in a state of undress would be an invasion of their personal privacy.

They would explain why, at 15 and 16 years old, changing alongside biological women is already hard enough.

What is the point if it isn't physical thing that makes them uncomfortable?

I would wager that there is at least some degree of coaching or seeding of certain ideas here. It is not unheard of for parents to manifest their own thoughts and political motives through their children. Living vicariously through them in a sense. Children form their earliest and most concrete ideals and values from their parents.

a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee
In my high school locker room (1960s) there were a couple private curtained stalls.

These stalls were assigned by permission. Usually for the disabled or someone who had an issue. But, they were in the same locker room.

Do locker rooms today not have any private stalls?

From the OP

They would tell the world why allowing a transgender student to see them in a state of undress would be an invasion of their personal privacy.

They would explain why, at 15 and 16 years old, changing alongside biological women is already hard enough.

What is the point if it isn't physical thing that makes them uncomfortable?

I'm a bit off today. Head cold and a bit of a Christmas hangover.

I'm not comprehending like I should. I think I will go back to just reading for now

originally posted by: Annee

I'm a bit off today. Head cold and a bit of a Christmas hangover.

I'm not comprehending like I should. I think I will go back to just reading for now

Lol me too, and if it wasn't a anatomically male issue then I see no point in it all.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 123143

You really have a thing about penises, don't you?

Is there something wrong with 'having a thing' about penises?

Meanwhile, remember what the mods have said. Make your reply/argument about the issue, not the person.

If it makes things better: "No vaginas in the boy's room."

a reply to: Teikiatsu

If it makes things better: "No vaginas in the boy's room."

Can't see them, they're internal. Get an anatomy book.