Why not hear about Islam from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the ME?

a reply to: diggindirt

I really don't care what the founder preached. None of the religious founders are still alive. Even the creator of the most recent religion, L. Ron Hubbard, isn't alive anymore. You can't appeal to them anymore because they aren't alive to condemn actions that go against their religion. Any yahoo can pretend a religious figure was for or against a certain position and the no one can adequately refute them because the figure isn't alive to defend himself. So your point is moot. All religion creates violent extremists of all nature. It isn't bigotry. It's the truth.

a reply to: dawnstar

Please read for comprehension...
I have never denied that Christians don't act badly. My point was and is this:
The founder of Christianity DID NOT perpetrate or teach his followers to do violent acts to further the cause of his faith. He did not urge violence nor did he practice it. That is the basic difference between Christianity and Islam.

Geeze people, one class in the history of religions or comparative religions should have taught you this stuff.... I find the ignorance on this subject appalling.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ok fine... Actual solutions anyone?

Cant wait to hear "Ban all religion" because that's ludicrous. Its the same as "Ban Muslims" from the opposite extreme.

People are the problem, if you take away one excuse they WILL find another.

The ME cultures have always been at war before Islam, Christians or Judaism. Its a culture born of fighting for resources.

Ban religion(s) talk is missing the point, just a band aid.

a reply to: diggindirt

but that other half of the bible is filled with stories of God telling his people to murder....
maybe after the God got done with them, he needed to send someone down to get them to tone it down just a tad?

it doesn't so much matter what the original prophet tried to teach them as much as what the people today interpret as being God's will....
after all, both old and new testament kind of treats women as subservient little creatures, and for centuries, that was the accepted interpretation, and yet, all these christians are going around telling the wives that if they don't want the babies, they shouldn't have the sex, as if that is biblical.....

a reply to: dawnstar

As I always say, if God is actually omniscient and omnipotent then by necessity there is no such thing as free will, and everything is Just As Planned.
Religion can be used to justify just about anything. It's stupid, but the onus is on the reasonable followers to raise their kids to not be crazy and susceptible to radicalization.

a reply to: mobiusmale

I like her !
/

a reply to: dawnstar
The magnitude of ignorance about religion on this site is truly amazing.
"The Bible" is a compilation of a whole slew of books. The Old Testament contained the law handed down for the Jews. That's the "other half" of which you speak and has no application to today's Christians except as history to help us understand the very big difference in the "old" ways of the Jews and the "new" ways of the Christ.
The New Testament contains the story of Christ and his teachings in the first four books. The rest of the NT is the writings of the early followers and their interpretations of his teaching. Christ was a radical among the Jews because he brought such a new and radical doctrine---God loves you and wants you to be at peace. Instead of "an eye for an eye" of the old ways, he taught love and forgiveness. THAT doctrine made him the radical and it is that doctrine that is outlined in the NT and offered not just to the Jews but to all people who would join this peace, love and forgiveness cult.
Same with the Buddha. He brought a radical new religion to the east like Christ had brought to the middle east.
Neither of these leaders preached violence or incited their followers to go to war. That is what made them so radical in their day.
Anyone who claims they can't see the difference in different religions is simply ignorant or disingenuous.
Here's a hint: Those who embrace murder and all forms of violence as part of their spiritual journey generally prevail over the love and forgiveness people. Heck, take a look at the origins of Sikhism if you want to see what happens when a peaceful people try to live alongside a violence-prone culture.
I don't have the time or inclination to further your religious education but you are sadly in need of doing a bit of research before you go spouting off on things of which you only msm knowledge. These leaders that preached peace, love and forgiveness sprang up from time to time all over the world and created religious followings. Please take some time to educate yourself so you don't look so silly making statements from ignorance.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
To blame religion for violence is indeed bigotry.
Archaeological evidence shows us quite plainly that people were killing other people in violent manners long before anything resembling religion entered the culture. Today's research among chimps shows that they go on violent raids of other chimp groups where they snatch and eat the young of the rival group. Are the chimps simply practicing some secret chimp religion when they do that?
Did violence disappear in the Soviet Union when religion was banned?
Your argument that all people of faith are the cause of violence in the world is...well, just absurd. But you are a good and dutiful defender of the principles of the Bolsheviks.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ok fine... Actual solutions anyone?

Cant wait to hear "Ban all religion" because that's ludicrous. Its the same as "Ban Muslims" from the opposite extreme.

I also believe in the 1st Amendment. If you want to believe in silly lies. Fine. Just leave me out of it. Plenty of Muslims have shown that they can do that very thing.

People are the problem, if you take away one excuse they WILL find another.

The ME cultures have always been at war before Islam, Christians or Judaism. Its a culture born of fighting for resources.

Ban religion(s) talk is missing the point, just a band aid.

You're the one who started talking about banning religions, not me. Don't put words in my mouth.

a reply to: diggindirt
weather or not that other half has any application is something that isn't in full agreement within all the churches though.... obviously there is some application, since every child going to sunday school will hear the story of david and golliath, sarah and abraham, the ten commandments, know who ruth was, ect. and well, it's not only the kids who are taught the stories of the old testament, even the ones about Joshua laying claim to the holy land,
the best you can say is that christianity is a religion designed to evolve, and not force society to sit back in the dark ages. or at least let their followers evolve. But, even then, there are some within it's ranks that would rather it not evolve, that it even take a few steps back into the dark ages, they hold as much onto the old testament as they do the new. You can't tell me different, since I've seen the debates here on ATS over the issue.
There might have been some peaceful leaders popping up from time to time, but there's also been some unpeaceful leaders who have twisted the words to lead the followers to do some horrendous things, even on american soil.
the iraq crusade, or I mean war, is a great example of those christian leaders, using lies and halftruths as an excuse to drop bombs and destroy counties halfway around the globe, all the while claiming how we're a "christian" nation, asking their god to bless us, coming up with all kinds of ways to defraud us so their war can be funded, forcing prisoners to pose for photos better suited for a porn magazine, and using obscene violence in an attempt to enforce their dollar's supremecy in the world... and, well, foreseeing that the american people wouldn't accept decades of war overseas, they allowed more muslims into this country than ever before, to ensure that they can continue their crusade, or I mean war here at home.

christ might have been a peaceful, forgiven man, but that doesn't mean all his followers are! people go where their heart leads them, some might find that peaceful forgiven lifestyle if that is what they wish for, but I don't care who's teachings that they are choosing to follow, if their desire revenge, control, power, or even downright murder, they can usually find a way to twist those teachings and convince others with similar desires to go along with them....all in the name of god!

interesting sidenote....
the koran tells it's followers to allow the women to visit the mosques, the bible tells the women to obey their husbands IN ALL THINGS, so thus well, if the husband doesn't want her to....well...she should be there!! so while here in christian dominated america, most women are free to go where ever they want within reason, and one of the biggest ways to recruit new followers is to bring in children, and women. but in taliban afghanistan, well, they closed all the women's baths, made going outside so dangerous that the women were afraid to go out, and well, as a result, they basically prohibited women from going to the mosques, since you had to bath before going, and you had to be free to travel both of which were taken away from the women...all in the name of allah....

for those who wish to ban religions, I have to ask why? I mean, it seems to be that the most horrendous acts that have occurred throughout history have occurred more when the separation of church and state was non-existant or weak and one group was using the other for their gain. terrorism is more of a political act than a religious act, if the religious don't want to be accused of being christian or muslim terrorist, then well, maybe they should take a step back from the political arena. many muslims seem to think that they should be in control of the political arena (and well, I admit, I am not that familiar with this religion so I am just stating my opinion here), and some christians seem to think that they should have a stronger influence within it, even so much as claiming only christians should be allowed to run for office.

a reply to: diggindirt

Show me where I said I wanted to ban religion? I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I see religion as the problem, but forcing people to stop worshiping it isn't going to fix anything. I can only rely on reason and evidence to show them that it is silly, deceitful, and not true. Don't put words in my mouth.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Like I said before, the problem isn't Islam, the problem is religion.

Oh, and people. People suck.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I agree 100%. You'll get no arguments from me on that one.

Its heavily implied by that exchange, so I asked for real solutions instead of condemning personal views on the world and reality itself.

Sorry to put words in your mouth, but this is the impression you're leaving here, IMO.

So, what do you propose? We can all sit back and complain and blame, but whats your solution to this

a reply to: Butterfinger

I don't subcumb to fear based on the actions of a few, so my answer is to leave things the way they are. Forcing people to worship or not worship a religion never works. So I want to rely on reason and evidence instead. In other words, respect the 1st. My opinion on religion doesn't trump the 1st.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hear you, thats fine.

I think the main concern of a lot of posters in this thread and others like it are to seek a solution to this growing issue.

History repeats itself, lets not pull a Germany or Sweden and ignore facts until its too late.

Either just let it happen without question, or prepare for certain future events. This bubble will pop, and hind sight will be 20/20

a reply to: Butterfinger

I think with all the islamophobia and desire for "solutions" to this "problem" is going down a dangerous path that distinctly mirrors Germany in the 1920's.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yeah, crazy Nazis.

Sitting back and believing the best in humanity will prevail opens you up to someone to take advantage, attributing outdated hippy morals as a weakness.

Sweden Germany and the UK tried it and now there's no turning back from a huge mess.

I'm not saying Ban Muslims/immigration/refugees. I want to concentrate on the problem in their home countries, these people would love to go back if there wasn't tyrants, war and rape to worry about.

They have shown for the most part to only occupy, not assimilate into a new world with their hosts. Are we a melting pot, or a segregated spice rack? LOL

a reply to: Butterfinger

To be honest, I don't believe any rhetoric said about Muslims anymore. Especially the violent variety. I'm perfectly content with sitting back and doing nothing. That is unless we finally want to call Saudi Arabia out for their roles in financing extremism, but until we do that I'm game with doing nothing.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'll agree with the Saudi funding expose!

I'd rather fix as much as possible in the ME than not and deal with mobs of displaced people, good or bad.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

All religion creates violent extremists of all nature.

If you believe what you wrote above---how can you not want all religions banned?
What thinking, caring person wouldn't want religion banned if they believed it caused violent extremists to shoot people, behead people and burn them alive? But you are perfectly okay with sitting back and watching it happen if it doesn't come to your home?

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Krazysh0t

All religion creates violent extremists of all nature.

If you believe what you wrote above---how can you not want all religions banned?

Because I agree with the 1st Amendment. It's kind of contradictory I know, but its the best solution available at this point.