Why not hear about Islam from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the ME?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

I know what we are debating, but you are deliberately using tunnel vision if you are honestly saying that Christians cannot find places within the bible to justify violence against non-believers. I mean you are so far outside of reality I'm not even sure I want to continue this conversation, because I'm pretty sure it will just result in a headache for me.

I'm sure that as soon as I point out Christian groups both past and present that managed to easily find justification within the bible for their atrocious actions, the first thing you'll do is tell me they weren't true Christians. Of course you'll probably also fail to see how that makes you look hypocritical when it comes to Muslim extremism. I mean, I've had this exact same conversation before on ATS. If not with you, but others who can't look critically at their own religion while looking critically at others. I know how the flow of these things go already.

You don't know me at all. I don't claim Christians are perfect. I am certainly not perfect.

A huge number of Christians have missed the point of the New Testament. They are not living it at all. They are the reason that Christians seem hypocritical.

But find me the passages in the Koran that promote peace with those of other religions. I haven't been able to find them.

Just because we have some bad models of Christian theology in practice doesn't mean the basis isn't there.

a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

You are saying that Christians don't agree on how the words of the Bible should be interpreted. Can't you see the same thing happens with Muslims?

Some people focus on all the negative parts of the Bible. Others ignore the negative parts.

Some people focus on all the negative parts of the Koran. Others ignore the negative parts.

Have you not seen ANY peaceful passages from the Koran? If you say no, you haven't been looking hard enough.

a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Your request is an easy Google search away. Have you heard of Google?

6 Quran Quotes That Teach Love, Tolerance and Freedom of Religion

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.

Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.

You are being hard to talk to here. Please explain what you say I don't know.

I, and MANY Christians, have no problem with gay marriage.

See--you are putting arguments and words into my mouth.

Jesus said not one word about homosexuality.

He DID tell me not to judge others, though.

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.

Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.

You are being hard to talk to here. Please explain what you say I don't know.

I, and MANY Christians, have no problem with gay marriage.

See--you are putting arguments and words into my mouth.

I actually I'm pulling arguments from Christians in general. Whether you agree with them or not, they are still Christian arguments that you cannot deny are based in Christian theology (at least that is what the repeaters of that rhetoric say).

Jesus said not one word about homosexuality.

He DID tell me not to judge others, though.

Yet you are judging Muslims in this very thread. Hmmmm...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Your request is an easy Google search away. Have you heard of Google?

6 Quran Quotes That Teach Love, Tolerance and Freedom of Religion

Wow. No, I have never heard of Google. You have truly changed my life.

Have you actually read the Koran?

I could show you many verses that negate every bit of what at article our forth as peaceful. Context is important. When I read the Koran, I was looking for the general message IN Context. There was no general message of peace or getting along with others.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.

Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.

You are being hard to talk to here. Please explain what you say I don't know.

I, and MANY Christians, have no problem with gay marriage.

See--you are putting arguments and words into my mouth.

I actually I'm pulling arguments from Christians in general. Whether you agree with them or not, they are still Christian arguments that you cannot deny are based in Christian theology (at least that is what the repeaters of that rhetoric say).

Jesus said not one word about homosexuality.

He DID tell me not to judge others, though.

Yet you are judging Muslims in this very thread. Hmmmm...

No, I judged the book they go by.

a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Don't talk to me about context when bible quoters will quote passages from the bible at the drop of a hat outside of context. This is why I said I wanted to disengage you initially with this conversation. You are hitting all the talking points I've heard already. Come back to me when you can actually look critically at your own religion, because right now to me it looks like Christianity can do no wrong and Muslims ALWAYS do wrong.

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.

Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.

You are being hard to talk to here. Please explain what you say I don't know.

I, and MANY Christians, have no problem with gay marriage.

See--you are putting arguments and words into my mouth.

I actually I'm pulling arguments from Christians in general. Whether you agree with them or not, they are still Christian arguments that you cannot deny are based in Christian theology (at least that is what the repeaters of that rhetoric say).

Jesus said not one word about homosexuality.

He DID tell me not to judge others, though.

Yet you are judging Muslims in this very thread. Hmmmm...

No, I judged the book they go by.

Whatever, enjoy your ignorance. I'm done. I can't convince you. But I'm not surprised. All forms of bigotry aren't based in rational discourse. Xenophobia included.

The Koran is not a peaceful book. Anyone who claims to follow the Koran has a decidedly nonpeaceful instruction manual.

That is my whole point.

Anyone who claims to be a Christian should refrain from judging the actions of others and should follow the New Testament instruction manual.

That's really all there is to it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.

Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.

You are being hard to talk to here. Please explain what you say I don't know.

I, and MANY Christians, have no problem with gay marriage.

See--you are putting arguments and words into my mouth.

I actually I'm pulling arguments from Christians in general. Whether you agree with them or not, they are still Christian arguments that you cannot deny are based in Christian theology (at least that is what the repeaters of that rhetoric say).

Jesus said not one word about homosexuality.

He DID tell me not to judge others, though.

Yet you are judging Muslims in this very thread. Hmmmm...

No, I judged the book they go by.

Whatever, enjoy your ignorance. I'm done. I can't convince you. But I'm not surprised. All forms of bigotry aren't based in rational discourse. Xenophobia included.

Sigh.

When all else fails, call me ignorant. Awesome.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Don't talk to me about context when bible quoters will quote passages from the bible at the drop of a hat outside of context. This is why I said I wanted to disengage you initially with this conversation. You are hitting all the talking points I've heard already. Come back to me when you can actually look critically at your own religion, because right now to me it looks like Christianity can do no wrong and Muslims ALWAYS do wrong.

Clearly you are not reading what I've written.

Not sure when I said Christianity does no wrong.

I think I've said the opposite.

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Don't talk to me about context when bible quoters will quote passages from the bible at the drop of a hat outside of context. This is why I said I wanted to disengage you initially with this conversation. You are hitting all the talking points I've heard already. Come back to me when you can actually look critically at your own religion, because right now to me it looks like Christianity can do no wrong and Muslims ALWAYS do wrong.

Clearly you are not reading what I've written.

Not sure when I said Christianity does no wrong.

I think I've said the opposite.

Christianity = Islam. Plain and simple. Both have extremist minorities who make a lot of noise. Both have moderate majorities that just want to live in peace. Both can justify violence in their holy books (as much as you don't want to believe that is true with the bible, you are wrong). Both can justify peace and tolerance in their holy books. It would be nice if you'd actually acknowledge that instead of pushing intolerant and ignorant "Muslims only care about violence" nonsense.

I say all of this as an agnostic looking critically at BOTH of religions from the outside. Though this is really my last post to you. You keep somehow getting me back in here, but I'm serious this time. I really have no need to argue with someone who is an obvious hypocrite and refuses to look critically at her own religion and religious texts.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Don't talk to me about context when bible quoters will quote passages from the bible at the drop of a hat outside of context. This is why I said I wanted to disengage you initially with this conversation. You are hitting all the talking points I've heard already. Come back to me when you can actually look critically at your own religion, because right now to me it looks like Christianity can do no wrong and Muslims ALWAYS do wrong.

Clearly you are not reading what I've written.

Not sure when I said Christianity does no wrong.

I think I've said the opposite.

Christianity = Islam. Plain and simple. Both have extremist minorities who make a lot of noise. Both have moderate majorities that just want to live in peace. Both can justify violence in their holy books (as much as you don't want to believe that is true with the bible, you are wrong). Both can justify peace and tolerance in their holy books. It would be nice if you'd actually acknowledge that instead of pushing intolerant and ignorant "Muslims only care about violence" nonsense.

I say all of this as an agnostic looking critically at BOTH of religions from the outside. Though this is really my last post to you. You keep somehow getting me back in here, but I'm serious this time. I really have no need to argue with someone who is an obvious hypocrite and refuses to look critically at her own religion and religious texts.

I am genuinely sad that you have such a closed mind to what Christianity is at heart.

I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

my question would be.....
even if what this lady is saying is true....just what is it she wants us to do about it?? Above all else, it's our constitution that would prevent sharia law being enforced in the US and quite frankly, we seem to be compromising it's integrity far more than an islamic radical could by giving up our rights for our "safety" which well I am sorry, but as long as our borders are as open as they seem to be, which ISN'T A PROBLEM OBAMA STARTED- Bush was just as bad in that area!!!, well, we can restrict the population all we want, any way we wish and still not be "safe". And, since the borders have been wide open for so long, well, I think the harms pretty much already been done.
so what would she like us to do?? how much money has she invested in the companies that peddle the weapons to both the us as well as around the world? maybe she wants us to start carpet bombing the middle eastern areas that tend to be breeding grounds for the radicals? okay, but I am reminded of something one of the republicans mentioned not long ago, talking about the planned parenthood bombing....
violence begets violence!! if some of our members, in our "superior" christian culture and react to a medical proceedure, that sometimes actually saves the life of the mother, because they see as as violent, well, why does it seem so unthinkable to some to think thatsome of the people who see their neighbors, their children, their parents blown up through the decades of wars we have waged in these countries might want to react violently as a result? ya, more war, that's really gonna help things isn't it?

like I already stated, our constitution, if left intact and not diminished we protect all of the citizens in the US, unless of course, we write laws to undermine it, like the patriot act, like some of the laws some christians seem to want passed that would make christianity supreme, like laws the reduce our abilities to protect ourselves, which well, maybe this lady wants us to pass more laws like this, maybe we can round up all those arabs and other nationalities from countries that are the breeding grounds for the radicals, expand our facilities in cuba a tad so we can fit them all in....would that make her happy? of course, I am sure once they are done with those groups, they'd go after more, till just a few they deem deserving to be free actually are, but what the hey, they've removed the threat, right, at least to themselves!!!!

nope bush sucked us into a couple needless wars once already, lying to us about wmd's, saddam's part in 9/11, ect.....and well finally had to admit that well, saddam was a bad egg and had to be removed....as if isis is so much better!!!
won't get sucked in again, sorry!

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl



I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

And a Muslim could say the exact same thing to you when you refer to THEIR religious texts.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl



I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

And a Muslim could say the exact same thing to you when you refer to THEIR religious texts.

I refused to speak of their text until I read it.

I have now read it.

That is WHY I read it.

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl



I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

And a Muslim could say the exact same thing to you when you refer to THEIR religious texts.

I refused to speak of their text until I read it.

I have now read it.

That is WHY I read it.

What you are failing to see is just like the bible, there are thousands of ways to read the Quran. This is what makes you a hypocrite. You read it and got "Muslim = violence" well others read it and don't get that message (namely most Muslims in the world). Why are you more correct than actual Muslims practicing the religion? Right. Because you read the book...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because she knows more than Muslims who have been studying and living with their religious texts their whole lives.

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl



I do find it to be absolutely incorrect of you to say I haven't looked critically at my own religious texts.

Because I HAVE looked critically at my religion, I know what it actually SAYS. Not what others SAY it says.

And a Muslim could say the exact same thing to you when you refer to THEIR religious texts.

I refused to speak of their text until I read it.

I have now read it.

That is WHY I read it.

And there are plenty of people who have read the Bible who don't agree with your interpretation of it. Who is right and who is wrong when looking at interpretation?