Why not hear about Islam from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the ME?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t


ISIS isn't launching attacks every day all over the globe either. More hyperbole.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's clear you don't actually follow events in this regard. Besides ISIS there are dozens and dozens of other Islamic extremest groups waging war across the planet.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

Don't talk to me about context when bible quoters will quote passages from the bible at the drop of a hat outside of context. This is why I said I wanted to disengage you initially with this conversation. You are hitting all the talking points I've heard already. Come back to me when you can actually look critically at your own religion, because right now to me it looks like Christianity can do no wrong and Muslims ALWAYS do wrong.

Clearly you are not reading what I've written.

Not sure when I said Christianity does no wrong.

I think I've said the opposite.

Christianity = Islam. Plain and simple. Both have extremist minorities who make a lot of noise. Both have moderate majorities that just want to live in peace. Both can justify violence in their holy books (as much as you don't want to believe that is true with the bible, you are wrong). Both can justify peace and tolerance in their holy books. It would be nice if you'd actually acknowledge that instead of pushing intolerant and ignorant "Muslims only care about violence" nonsense.

I say all of this as an agnostic looking critically at BOTH of religions from the outside. Though this is really my last post to you. You keep somehow getting me back in here, but I'm serious this time. I really have no need to argue with someone who is an obvious hypocrite and refuses to look critically at her own religion and religious texts.

The simple truth is that you can't find in Christ's actual teachings in the Bible any exhortation to go and slaughter his enemies. You can't find any records of his leading angry men on killing sprees. The most violent episode recorded was when he drove the banksters out of the temple. He didn't kill them with a rock or a spear---he drove them out with a whip. He taught love and forgiveness rather than hatred and war. That's what made him a radical in his day!

The Buddah didn't teach his followers to go to war. He taught that war is evil. He was dubbed a crazy radical.

How you can continue to chant that all religions are the same is simply beyond me. Religions follow the teachings of their founders. Looking at the lives of their founders (insofar as it is possible) and the amount of bloodshed they personally committed leads me to believe there is a great deal of difference in religions. Some are inherently violent due to the ideology of founder. Islam is one of those religions.

a reply to: diggindirt

hmmm.......
seems like it depends on the trend of the time....

en.wikipedia.org...

people read what they want into it.... and the bible can be and has been used to justify some pretty horrible things. and well, add a bit of mass hysteria, desparation into the picture and well...what can I say, all reason seems to fly out the window.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: mobiusmale

There is a fallacy known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, that can be applied to the notion that Islamic terrorists are not true Muslims, or extremists are not representative of their political affiliation. The notion that those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam do not represent Islam is demonstrably untrue.

I've had Christians use that argument on here plenty of times. So does that mean they were wrong and the extremist who was christian really did represent Christianity then??

a reply to: mOjOm

Absolutely. No one can tell another what religion they are or aren't. The sheer amount of interpretations and denominations of religions are a testament to this.

I found 3 random women on youtube who found beauty in Islam and converted to it. Now what ? ?

a reply to: dawnstar
Yes, you can find instances of religions acting badly---all of them. You can find Buddhists who instigated war and still called themselves Buddhists. But you can't find the records of the founders of the peace, love and forgiveness-oriented religions having waged war to bring about peace, love and forgiveness.
I think you are confusing the Roman Church with Christianity. The Roman Church and their barbarity is exactly what drove fundamentalist Christians out of Europe. The Roman Church at that time, and to some large extent today, follow the teaching/writing of the disciples far more than the teachings of Christ. The fundamentalist sects attempt to follow the teachings of Christ as set down in scripture and refuse to recognize sainthood and all the other practices adopted by the Roman Church.

a reply to: diggindirt

It doesn't matter. Christians, both past and present, have found ways to justify violence within the bible. Just because YOU can't justify violence with the bible, doesn't mean that others haven't. Stop denying that that has happened.

It's funny you bring up Buddhists, because even THEY aren't immune from partaking in religious violence and justifying it through their religious dogma.
Buddhist Extremism and the Hypocrisy of 'Religious Violence'

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Like I said before, the problem isn't Islam, the problem is religion.

Oh, and people. People suck.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I agree 100%. You'll get no arguments from me on that one.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I was more so adding to what you were saying, rather than countering a point or attempting to disagree. While I think that most religions can be neutral or even benign (I am personally Agnostic), they are so, so easily tainted. They are also treated as far too special, like an opinion that transcends opinion and is no longer able to be questioned.

Alas, the human condition, I suppose.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

You are speaking my language. I really can't think of much more to add actually. I'm also agnostic btw.

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

I found 3 random women on youtube who found beauty in Islam and converted to it. Now what ? ?

There's really no shortage of those...

When a person experiences trouble in his life, it is the easiest thing do - turn off rational thinking and join a religion.
Living your life in a delusion is a bliss...

a reply to: diggindirt

salem witch trials...guess the puritans weren't christian either, right???
and of course, the baptists proclaim the pentecostals as not christian, the caltholics think they are the true church, and then you have a few thousand probably who have decided to find their own way because they are all wrong....all proclaiming to be christians, but well, all interpreting the bible to their own preference. heck no church I ever went to would have thought that beating two teens to death during a counseling session was biblical, but well, can't deny that it happened can we??

but, well, I hesitate to put the word christian in connection with the planned parenthood shooter myself. although I agree he was a terrorist of sorts, and well, maybe thought of himself as a christian, but I see it as more of a problem of politics trying to run hand and hand with religion, most of the planned parenthood crap was more aimed at political goals, possibly planned with help from some political leaders, which why the lawsuit from the National Abortion Federation mentions the word RICO in the complaint....they see it as a conspiracy, which it very well could have been. and well, if I am right that those tapes were more of a political move than having anything whatsoever to do with religion, and it was those tapes and the constant barrage of rhetoric that has been ongoing for decades that resulted in this attack, well, I think the christians need to ask themselves just who is pulling who's strings here. are you sure that you've got the politicians doing your bidding or is it more that they are using you for their benefit.

I've seen some try to blame planned parenthood for this.
I've seen some try to blame our mental healthcare system for this.
I've seen some trying to blame the guns for this..
I've seen some trying to blame christianity on this.
While the politicians seem to be walking away scott free...

and you are wrong, it wasn't just the catholic church that was committing acts of violence. The kings and queens of many of the european nations were quite often inciting rebellions within the kingdoms of those who were not of their chosen faiths in hopes that could weaken their rule and gain some territory from them. Ever hear of the IRA? they fought for years against the persecution of protestant england.

a reply to: MaxMech

You can really see the gleam of insanity in their eyes.

This world is steeped in lies.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because she knows more than Muslims who have been studying and living with their religious texts their whole lives.

And you know more than Christians who have been studying and living with their religious texts their whole lives?

a reply to: Butterfinger

Nope, but I love Butterfingers! Been enjoying and eating them my whole life!

She is a vicTim of Stockholm syndrome.

Islam is a death cult and has no place in modern society.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Acceptable rebuttal, carry on!

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Where did I deny that violence at the hands of Christians happened? How do you twist this:

Yes, you can find instances of religions acting badly---all of them. You can find Buddhists who instigated war and still called themselves Buddhists.

into denial?

Are you just so bigoted toward people of faith that you can't even see what is on your screen? My point was not that Christians have lived and practiced perfectly the teachings of the founder for 2000 years---my point is that the founder did NOT teach or practice violence to further the cause. Muslims can't make that claim.
They can claim that their prophet preached love but the proof of the pudding was in his actions. He LEAD his followers into war---making his brand of religion a violent death cult from the very beginning. If you cannot understand that you need to do a bit more research on the origins of the faith. Deny ignorance.