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Why not hear about Islam from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the ME?

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posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh Lord, please don't tell us you're quoting DHS material as factual.

We've lost another!!




posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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Some people are sick, religion is just an excuse not the problem.

Take it away and they will find another reason.

Same with Guns, seems explosives are alot more destructive and you can make them out of cleaning supplies.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: mobiusmale

I can find a few videos online of muslim women who tells about the horrors of that religion/culture. maybe if you posted videos of both wievpoints it would look less like you had a specific agenda.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sure there are a few attacks in other countries, but for the most part they are contained there. So your point here is moot.

I am sorry but what now?
You changed your post but that is what you said. What WTF?



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger
Some people are sick, religion is just an excuse not the problem.

Take it away and they will find another reason.

Same with Guns, seems explosives are alot more destructive and you can make them out of cleaning supplies.

But with Islam it's a case of being brainwashed into sick behavior.Nurture more than nature.



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mobiusmale

The point is that extremism exists in ALL religions. Everyone just turns a blind eye to their own forms of religious extremism in the religions they worship. All these statistics and anecdotes trying to paint all or most Muslims as extremists can easily be flipped on Christians rather easily, but then when you do that they turn around and try to say it's not the same thing. It's all cognitive dissonance in my opinion. I don't like any abrahamic religion because they all breed extremism, but we have the first amendment in this country. Therefore we all have the right to believe what we want. You just have to deal with it. Muslims are here, some are bad, most aren't.


Yes. However, it is completely disingenuous to compare other religions today with Islam in terms of the sheer volume of backwardness and violence. It is not even remotely close.


Not really. Christian extremism is actually worse in this country than Muslim extremism. Going by the numbers that is.


For every Christian who thinks it is OK to bomb a planned parenthood there are probably 10,000 acts of Islamic violence.


Ooooooh. Gotta love statistics made up on the spot. I can just ignore them.


So as to not be a hypocrite can you please provide some documentation to prove your statement?



posted on Dec, 8 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mobiusmale

The point is that extremism exists in ALL religions. Everyone just turns a blind eye to their own forms of religious extremism in the religions they worship. All these statistics and anecdotes trying to paint all or most Muslims as extremists can easily be flipped on Christians rather easily.


What Christian army is waging war across the planet?


I'm pretty sure that ISIS is mostly just in Syria and Iraq. Sure there are a few attacks in other countries, but for the most part they are contained there. So your point here is moot.


What Christian terrorist groups are launching attacks nearly everyday, all over the globe?


ISIS isn't launching attacks every day all over the globe either. More hyperbole.


What alternate reality to you come from?


I live in a reality where I don't acknowledge hyperbole as a legitimate point.


Just cause Obozo says Ft Hood, Chatanooga, and barely San Bernandino are not muslim attacks does not mean they are!



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: Curious69
a reply to: mobiusmale

I can find a few videos online of muslim women who tells about the horrors of that religion/culture. maybe if you posted videos of both wievpoints it would look less like you had a specific agenda.


By all means, please post one or two videos recorded by Muslim women who are happy with Islam. That would certainly add to the discussion.

When I created the thread, though, I was not trying to author an exhaustive documentary of all points of view on this complex subject...just the views of one woman I happened to come across on another site. Her comments, based on what she claims is her life experience, would tend to support the idea that we (Western society in general) do need to try to figure out "what is going on"...as Trump put it.

If I have an agenda, I guess maybe it is that I think people need to honestly try to look at, and try to understand what is going on...without the brain fog that is created by automatically taking the apologist/denial route (the teeny-tiny minority of Muslims argument, for example)...or the homogeneous "Muslims are bad" stance.

For a good many centuries, nations which identified as "Christian" were sailing and marching around the world forcing entire countries/cultures to convert or die (witness the South American genocides that occurred)...individuals within the faith were subjected to horrific persecutions, trials, tortures - and executions, during the Inquisition.

I don't think it would have been particularly productive...or rational...at the time, to have simply tried to pretend that these things were not happening, or to try to deny who/what was behind all of this mayhem. Equally, it would probably have been accurate to say that the vast majority of Christians living in those times were normal peace-loving people who just wanted to live a quiet happy life in their communities with their families.

But...there it was..."power structures" dominated by people who identified as Christian, and who were "doing God's work", were sweeping across the globe violently imposing their will on entire peoples. Many of these...like the North American Natives...tried to cooperate, to appease, to share the great bounty that was within their homelands - only to find out that the visitors were in fact invaders, and they had no intention of stopping until they completely dominated the peoples and the landscapes wherever they appeared.

And this from a group whose Prophet, Jesus, only preached peace, non-violence and tolerance...

Are there parallels to this period in history, in the stated goals - and the actions - of certain people (and now power structures) who identify themselves as Muslim?

I would say that there are, and that Western Nations (and, I will add, those Muslims who do not share the extremist ideology) ignore these new realities at their own peril.

Spaniards with Galleons and muskets were one thing...Jihadis with nuclear weapons (if Pakistan ever falls, and/or when Iran finally succeeds) would be quite another.

My agenda is, I guess...I think people need to soberly think all of this through - Muslims and non-Muslims alike - so that we don't end up paining all Muslim people with the same brush, while at the same time we do not blind ourselves to the growing danger represented by the (probably many millions of) people who do in fact want to do us harm in the name of Islam (on both macro and micro scales).



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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Careful OP, your'e this close to being called islamophobe...




posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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Meanwhile, everyone's ignoring the elephant stomping around the room leaving footprints on the carpet and s**t in the dinner bowls. The problem isn't Islam. The problem is religion.
edit on 9/12/2015 by Eilasvaleleyn because: Reasons



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mobiusmale

The point is that extremism exists in ALL religions. Everyone just turns a blind eye to their own forms of religious extremism in the religions they worship. All these statistics and anecdotes trying to paint all or most Muslims as extremists can easily be flipped on Christians rather easily, but then when you do that they turn around and try to say it's not the same thing. It's all cognitive dissonance in my opinion. I don't like any abrahamic religion because they all breed extremism, but we have the first amendment in this country. Therefore we all have the right to believe what we want. You just have to deal with it. Muslims are here, some are bad, most aren't.


I challenge you to READ the Koran. Then read the New Testament. You will see that the "extremists" in the Muslim faith are following their holy book. You will NOT see the same violence in the New Testament. Christianity is founded on the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It is a religion of love. You find no violence or hate in the New Testament.

Saying all religions have extremists is the wrong argument.

The holy book --the Koran--is the problem. It is full of violence. I read it for myself.

Anyone who says Islam is the religion of peace is either:
--lying to your face
--misinformed about what the Koran actually says.

I challenge you to read it for yourself.
edit on 9-12-2015 by GeorgiaGirl because: Typo



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
I challenge you to READ the Koran. Then read the New Testament. You will see that the "extremists" in the Muslim faith are following their holy book. You will NOT see the same violence in the New Testament. Christianity is founded on the New Testament and Jesus Christ. It is a religion of love. You find no violence or hate in the New Testament.


I don't care about this. There are thousands of interpretations of the bible just like there are thousands of interpretations of the Quran. Don't pretend like that isn't the case. That is unless you are a bible literalist and that everything written in the bible happened exactly as written.


Saying all religions have extremists is the wrong argument.


No, it's pretty spot on.


The holy book --the Koran--is the problem. It is full of violence. I read it for myself.


So is the bible.

Violent Bible Verses


Anyone who says Islam is the religion of peace is either:
--lying to your face
--misinformed about what the Koran actually says.

I challenge you to read it for yourself.


I challenge you to actually be critical of your own region for once.
edit on 9-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Say what you want, but the New Testament--which is the foundation of the Christian religion--does not promote violence.

The Koran does.

That is enough for me.

We aren't debating whether Noah had an ark.

We are debating whether religions command violence.

Christianity does not. Anyone who uses Christianity to promote violence is perverting the message of the New Testament.

The Koran clearly does.

Have you read it? Any of the many translations?



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

And you know that you just added a link to a bunch of OLD Testament verses, right?

New Testament=the philosophy of Jesus.

Jesus is about peace and love.

The New Testament supersedes he Old Testament "law."

And trust me--I am plenty critical about religion. There are definitely Christians who get it wrong.



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

You really aren't being fair here. Christians use quotes from the Old Testament many times to justify their position on things - hell, the 10 Commandments isn't even in the New Testament, and that is the definitive of right and wrong in the Christian religion.

The Koran is the same. There are statements of violence along with statements of peace. Peaceful Muslims look on the violent parts as a historical account of something that happened 1300 years ago - not as something they need to follow today.


The Old Testament is filled with tales of divinely-ordained slaughter and war, yet about two billion Christians today follow the word of the Lord, coupled with the New Testament, which includes a command from Jesus to "love thy neighbor as you love thyself."

Muslims also face a similar dichotomy of ideas in the Koran, from maintaining peace to raging war. In one part, the scripture says there is "no coercion in matters of faith." In another, the Koran tells Muslims to "fight those who believe not in Allah."


abcnews.go.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: GeorgiaGirl

I know what we are debating, but you are deliberately using tunnel vision if you are honestly saying that Christians cannot find places within the bible to justify violence against non-believers. I mean you are so far outside of reality I'm not even sure I want to continue this conversation, because I'm pretty sure it will just result in a headache for me.

I'm sure that as soon as I point out Christian groups both past and present that managed to easily find justification within the bible for their atrocious actions, the first thing you'll do is tell me they weren't true Christians. Of course you'll probably also fail to see how that makes you look hypocritical when it comes to Muslim extremism. I mean, I've had this exact same conversation before on ATS. If not with you, but others who can't look critically at their own religion while looking critically at others. I know how the flow of these things go already.
edit on 9-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

And you know that you just added a link to a bunch of OLD Testament verses, right?

New Testament=the philosophy of Jesus.

Jesus is about peace and love.

The New Testament supersedes he Old Testament "law."

And trust me--I am plenty critical about religion. There are definitely Christians who get it wrong.


Question, how do you feel about the Ten Commandments? Are they not relevant now? After all they show up in the OT.



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't.

And I think Christians should not, either.



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.

Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.

As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.



posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: GeorgiaGirl
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't keep the sabbath day holy, for example.

Not many Christians do.


You'd be surprised. You clearly don't even know about the major aspects of your own religion, let alone another one.


Christianity really isn't about rules--IF you read the words of Jesus and understand the New Testament message.


Lol. Traditional marriage. Thou shall not...

Though I HAVE read the words of Jesus and that is one of the reasons I left the religion. Christians have ignored those words. I can support "do unto others..." rather easily without believing in all that supernatural mumbo-jumbo.


As humans, we love to make rules. Many churches are about power. Of course that is true.

You can pervert any message. Christians have done that.

But that is NOT the message of Jesus.


Yet somehow you cannot apply this same reasoning to the Muslim religion. Many call that cognitive dissonance.



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