I Hate the Abortion Issue

a reply to: Metallicus

I'm pretty much in your camp on this issue. Personally, I think abortion should only be allowed if the mother could die from giving birth or if the baby will be born deformed and have a wretched life. Still, I don't quite like the "it's a woman's body argument." If that stance is going to be taken, then at least classify a human fetus as a parasite. Somehow "killing parasites" doesn't sound as bad as "killing unborn babies."

WELCOME TO ATS ...truthseeker1110

originally posted by: truthseeker1110


I'm pretty much in your camp on this issue. Personally, I think abortion should only be allowed if the mother could die from giving birth or if the baby will be born deformed and have a wretched life. Still, I don't quite like the "it's a woman's body argument." If that stance is going to be taken, then at least classify a human fetus as a parasite. Somehow "killing parasites" doesn't sound as bad as "killing unborn babies."

ENGLISH OXFORD DICTIONARY DEFINATION OF *PARASITE*

An organism which lives in or on another organism (the host)
and benefits by deriving nutrients at the others expense.

An apt description of a pregnancy wouldn't you say!?

originally posted by: Romanov


True. But the dependency during pregnancy is purely biological, and hardly makes any extra demand on the woman besides some discomforts, carrying an extra weight in the final months.

You strap a bag around yourself adding a pound or so weekly till you

are carrying 2/3 stone around with you and don't take it off when

you bathe or sleep. You cant put it down when it gets too heavy for

you or you get back ache.

and avoiding some harmful habits (smoking, drinking).

I have never been a smoker, but I have known smokers who have been

unable to give it up, and I have been told it is harder to break a nicotine

habit than a c*aine habit.... on top of alcohol which if you were trying

to give up smoking it would be nice to have a drink to take the edge off

your nicotine habit?

Taking care of a newborn is more demanding, and of a 2-3 years old is even more so (at least this is my personal experience - my 3 years old son is unstoppable). So if a woman doesn't want the child.

LOL!! It obviously wasn't in her plans, other wise she wouldn't be

having a termination.

just bear with these 9 months and give the baby in adoption after birth, and she will avoid the huge compromise and labor of growing up a child, which is the truly hardest part

There are more children in homes and social services than places for them.

And who's to say they will go to a loving home, I have seen programmes

where adult adoptees had unhappy abusive childhoods. A bit like going

from the frying pan into the fire!

Way better to do this than killing another person

A *foetus* is not a *person* ... As a ball of wool is not a sweater till its

been knitted.

a reply to: eletheia

Thank you for the welcome - and yes, I agree it's an apt description. In fact, given some time, I imagine labeling it a fetus would lessen the pro-choice stance.

originally posted by: Romanov
a reply to: eletheia

True. But the dependency during pregnancy is purely biological, and hardly makes any extra demand on the woman besides some discomforts, carrying an extra weight in the final months, and avoiding some harmful habits (smoking, drinking). Taking care of a newborn is more demanding, and of a 2-3 years old is even more so (at least this is my personal experience - my 3 years old son is unstoppable). So if a woman doesn't want the child, just bear with these 9 months and give the baby in adoption after birth, and she will avoid the huge compromise and labor of growing up a child, which is the truly hardest part. Way better to do this than killing another person.

"hardly makes any extra demand on the woman"

EFFF YOU!!!!!! Did I mention I'm pregnant? I'm not even past the 1st trimester. I've felt like I've had the flu all day. It only gets worse from here. I have to wear a brace every single day due to a hernia leftover from my last 2. The 3rd trimester is by far the worst. You can't even reach your own toenails to clip them.

Just bear with it 9 months, it's no big deal! YOU wear a cinder block in a backpack so all the weight is on your front for 3 FULL MONTHS- the duration of the 3rd trimester. And then MAYBE you can talk about how easy it is.

And what if the woman WANTS to keep it? But knows she can't afford it. Can you imagine how heart breaking it would be to just pass it over to a stranger? Much easier to have the equivalent of a pap smear early on, so she can then get her sh*t together and have the baby she truly wants to keep.

PS I would say a very small percentage of abortions are for medical or rape reasons. A vast majority are due to financial reasons. So, hey pro-lifers! Now's your chance! Write your Congressman:

Demand waaayyy MORE funding for Planned Parenthood.
Demand free birth control and women's health services for ALL women of child bearing age.
Demand MORE money into federal child care programs, Head Start and after school care. (did any of you single guys realize that child care costs $200/week? That's impossible if you're working minimum wage BTW.)
Demand that pregnant women and single mothers be given free access to education and vocational training- with free child care while they're working to better themselves, of course.
Did you know that businesses routinely FIRE and REFUSE TO HIRE pregnant women? So the one person that needs that job the most is left out in the cold to starve. Demand an end to job discrimination against pregnant women.
Demand Medicaid expansion.
Demand that ALL babies up to age 5 have medical coverage. And at the end of 5 years, if the mother still can't swing it, the coverage will not be dropped.
Demand Food Stamp expansion.
Demand child tax credit expansion.
Demand full collection of all back child support owed.
Demand harsher punishments for family violence crimes, and an accessible victim's compensation fund. That way women aren't forced to stay in abusive relationships.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's even more, but you know TPTB are too busy blowing up sh*t in the Middle East to give one crap about stupid ol' women and children stateside.

How about instead of armchair quarterbacking and calling folks 'whores' and 'murderers' you actually do something to better their lives so they actually see a little hope at the end of the tunnel??????

I couldn't even vacuum 1 room yesterday without stopping to puke. I've been in bed all day, so my 2 yo and 7 yo have been running amok. Just found shaving cream sprayed all over the bathroom.

Why don't one of you benevolent pro-lifers come over to my house and help clean and take care of the kids? I'm incubating a fetus here.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

One problem, though - getting an abortion makes miscarriage more likely in the future.

a reply to: truthseeker1110

Not necessarily. And that's one factor, out of the many that each INDIVIDUAL woman must weigh. All the pro's and con's of her particular situation.

I had a friend in college that had 3 or 4 abortions. Oh what a horrible, murderous POS right? Did I mention she was repeatedly raped by her own step brother for years as a very young teenager? She was a serious drug addict and was high during all those abortions. Somehow, someway she got herself together...met a nice guy and went on to have 4 kids and be a wonderful mother. There's no doubt in my mind those abortions were the best thing for her at the time. And she found her redemption and peace in life....it just wasn't there right then.

originally posted by: truthseeker1110
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

One problem, though - getting an abortion makes miscarriage more likely in the future.

I have never come across that as a problem from the people who have

had the actual experience.

Think its an unproven statistic to scare women off from having terminations

a reply to: eletheia

I am not sure about that because I remember when my college GF had an abortion the doctor told her that one of the risks was increased chances of future miscarriages.

If a medical professional will say this I doubt it is made up.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: eletheia

I am not sure about that because I remember when my college GF had an abortion the doctor told her that one of the risks was increased chances of future miscarriages. If a medical professional will say this I doubt it is made up.

Like I said I think there's a bit of scaremongering there .... That is one

case. D id you follow it up, she may had a few babies by now!


You read Ladyvalkerie post where someone she knew had, had multiple

terminations and then gone on to have four? children, and I personally

know quite a few women who have had terminations and gone on to

have babies.

a reply to: eletheia

Out of all my girl friends who have had abortions, that was the ONE instance where the female had more than one, except for ONE more where the girl had TWO- like, 10 years apart- just bad luck with BC. And she swore she would never have another one after the first, but when you have a psycho guy threatening to block an adoption, take her to court for full custody and taking HER to the cleaners for child support- well, the term 'backed into a corner' comes to mind.

Every other girl friend I've EVER known has never had more than one. And none of them have gone on to infertility. Even Michah (child rape victim, hard drug addict, 3 or 4 abortions) went on to have 4 kids. I only saw her in passing so we didn't discuss miscarriages, but I'm happy to report she looked really good and really happy and had a million pics of her 4 kids and seemed to be a great mom.

It may be a minuscule possibility....but from what I've heard an abortion is not much different from a pap smear. And pap smears don't make anyone infertile.

And again, maybe it's a risk. That's something for the INDIVIDUAL to weigh out. Have an abortion and be stuck with an abusive A hole that's sure to beat the kid too?......or risk a miscarriage at some distant time in the future? Abortion over here, please. It's like gnawing your own leg off to get out of a bear trap.

a reply to: Metallicus

Hey OP, glad to see you back! Since you're such a fan of fetuses you're welcome to come clean my house and watch my 7 yo and 2 yo so I can lay in bed and be sick!

Yay pro-life! Put your money where your mouth is!


(Gawd, even the picture of the beer makes me want to puke)

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I would love to have more kids and I work with youth when I coach and volunteer. My wife has other ideas about more and frankly at my age I don't think having any more kids is in the cards.

You may not have read my OP that says I am pro-choice. That doesn't mean I like abortion though...especially after having kids of my own it is hard to imagine having killed them.

Good luck with your little ones.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: eletheia

I am not sure about that because I remember when my college GF had an abortion the doctor told her that one of the risks was increased chances of future miscarriages. If a medical professional will say this I doubt it is made up.

Like I said I think there's a bit of scaremongering there .... That is one

case. D id you follow it up, she may had a few babies by now!


You read Ladyvalkerie post where someone she knew had, had multiple

terminations and then gone on to have four? children, and I personally

know quite a few women who have had terminations and gone on to

have babies.

No one said that you couldn't have more children. The issue was that it increases the chance of having a miscarriage which doesn't equate with never having children. I am sorry you got confused.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: rossacus
I believe having a child without financial stability, high nuture levels and having a child that was not "wanted" is worse than abortion. Of course medical issues come into the frame also.

I believe having a child knowing you cannot provide a decent/high quality of life is a worse crime.

That's why we have adoption.

Slave owners facing the same situation with a slave they couldn't handle...could dispose of them in any way they found convenient.

and look how well adoption is working.... how many 1000's of unwanted kids end up in the foster care system in every state here in the usa

a reply to: research100

Not to mention the buttloads of money Christians are making off selling babies. They gather up young, scared, poor pregnant women convince them adoption is the best and then turn around and charge $30,000 a pop. If you were to pay a lawyer and go before a judge to assign uncontested custody of a child it is only $2,500. Who's getting the other $27,500??? Not the mother.

Oh yeah and Christian adoption agencies discriminate against disabled people, single parents, gays and non-Christians. How Christ-like is that?

a reply to: Metallicus

You may say you're pro-choice, but you sure did a great job of attracting all the rabid pro-lifers like moths to a flame.

a reply to: eletheia

Perhaps you are right. Though there does seem to be some risk involved.

Still, it seems I was mistaken (at least mostly) and thanks for pointing it out, since I wasn't intending to mislead anyone.