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I Hate the Abortion Issue

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posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

100% Right back at you. I was glad to see this thread because it is common ground.




posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: HighFive
a reply to: Metallicus

I share some of your sentiments as well, but I'd like to add two things.

No person has ever enjoyed an abortion.

Sometimes abortion SAVES a life. ( ectopic pregnancy, etc)


I absolutely agree that abortion is fine when it saves the mother's life. I could fairly categorize this as self-defense or self-preservation which is justified and presents no moral dilemma for me.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Nothing negative or anything. Just saying that pro-choice encompasses the opinions of people who both agree and disagree with abortion personally.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Metallicus

Nothing negative or anything. Just saying that pro-choice encompasses the opinions of people who both agree and disagree with abortion personally.


That makes perfect sense. Glad we can agree on something.




posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:18 AM
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I support a woman's right to choose in the first two trimesters.

What I don't fully understand is why (in my home state-Pennsylvania) I can be charged with murder if a woman's fetus is terminated due to my actions, if she can terminate the fetus without being charged with murder.
I could understand if I was sued for compensation if my actions resulted in an unwanted termination.... but not being charged with murder.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I love having some common ground with you for a change.

I have always regretted that we don't agree on more things because I do consider you a caring, thoughtful individual. I also appreciate you sharing your insight on this issue with me.


Quoted for truth.
BH is a good egg.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Aren't alive until fully formed??? Don't think you quite meant that otherwise I would abort alot of 21 yr olds....lol


Yeah, I think most states outlaw abortion in the 84th trimester.
Maybe California allows it though, not sure.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Positions like yours are what I think REAL pro-life arguments should be like.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 09:54 AM
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I don't agree with abortion. I've been through it and I will always regret my decision. I was young, a little unexperienced in life, so at the time I thought it was the right thing to do.

Now, many years on, I have a daughter and we are pregnant with our second. I've seen them both in the 12 week scans and what amazes me is their development. At the 12 week scans they are small humans, kicking and rolling around.

Following my own research I could not believe that your baby is fully developed at the end of the 12th week, albeit maturing.

At the beginning of the 24th week your baby will look like he/she will at birth, it has a sleeping pattern, has a strong sense of touch, hearing, responds to movements, noises and music.

In the UK the abortion limit is 24 weeks unless there is potential harm to the carrier in which case there is not a limit.

Abortion at 24 weeks? In my opinion anything after 6 weeks is murder unless real complications are very possible and/or likely.
edit on 2/12/15 by angryhulk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

One night, you and your wife head out for the evening with friends. After a while you are separated but it's OK because she with the girls and you are with the fellas.

5 hours later you get a call to come to the hospital - she has been raped, she bashed and ####ed-up

2 months later she is pregnant, you know it's not yours.

What would you do and say, if she wanted to terminate the pregnancy?



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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The whole problem with the abortion issue is that people don't use the gray matter while discussing a gray area.
The line is drawn in the sand and that's where the discussion ends. Never a compromise.
very unfortunate.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: angryhulk
I don't agree with abortion. I've been through it and I will always regret my decision. I was young, a little unexperienced in life, so at the time I thought it was the right thing to do.

Now, many years on, I have a daughter and we are pregnant with our second. I've seen them both in the 12 week scans and what amazes me is their development. At the 12 week scans they are small humans, kicking and rolling around.

Following my own research I could not believe that your baby is fully developed at the end of the 12th week, albeit maturing.

At the beginning of the 24th week your baby will look like he/she will at birth, it has a sleeping pattern, has a strong sense of touch, hearing, responds to movements, noises and music.

In the UK the abortion limit is 24 weeks unless there is potential harm to the carrier in which case there is not a limit.

Abortion at 24 weeks? In my opinion anything after 6 weeks is murder unless real complications are very possible and/or likely.


Thank you for sharing your story.
I once was one of those unplanned, inconvenient pregnancies. My parents, though not married at the time, chose to allow me to live...love and raise me.

I'm grateful...MY children are ALSO grateful.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Metallicus

One night, you and your wife head out for the evening with friends. After a while you are separated but it's OK because she with the girls and you are with the fellas.

5 hours later you get a call to come to the hospital - she has been raped, she bashed and ####ed-up

2 months later she is pregnant, you know it's not yours.

What would you do and say, if she wanted to terminate the pregnancy?


Surely she would find out immediately in which case she could proceed with the abortion (if she wanted).



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: angryhulk
I don't agree with abortion. I've been through it and I will always regret my decision. I was young, a little unexperienced in life, so at the time I thought it was the right thing to do.

Now, many years on, I have a daughter and we are pregnant with our second. I've seen them both in the 12 week scans and what amazes me is their development. At the 12 week scans they are small humans, kicking and rolling around.

Following my own research I could not believe that your baby is fully developed at the end of the 12th week, albeit maturing.

At the beginning of the 24th week your baby will look like he/she will at birth, it has a sleeping pattern, has a strong sense of touch, hearing, responds to movements, noises and music.

In the UK the abortion limit is 24 weeks unless there is potential harm to the carrier in which case there is not a limit.

Abortion at 24 weeks? In my opinion anything after 6 weeks is murder unless real complications are very possible and/or likely.


Thank you for sharing your story.
I once was one of those unplanned, inconvenient pregnancies. My parents, though not married at the time, chose to allow me to live...love and raise me.

I'm grateful...MY children are ALSO grateful.


Glad to hear it.

I don't think I was planned either, in fact my dad run away when I was 3 so he clearly wasn't prepared.

I often wonder what he/she would be doing now, had we decided to keep it. I truly am gutted. Like I said, it was years ago and I was young and inexperienced, but still...



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: angryhulk
I don't agree with abortion. I've been through it and I will always regret my decision. I was young, a little unexperienced in life, so at the time I thought it was the right thing to do.

Now, many years on, I have a daughter and we are pregnant with our second. I've seen them both in the 12 week scans and what amazes me is their development. At the 12 week scans they are small humans, kicking and rolling around.

Following my own research I could not believe that your baby is fully developed at the end of the 12th week, albeit maturing.

At the beginning of the 24th week your baby will look like he/she will at birth, it has a sleeping pattern, has a strong sense of touch, hearing, responds to movements, noises and music.

In the UK the abortion limit is 24 weeks unless there is potential harm to the carrier in which case there is not a limit.

Abortion at 24 weeks? In my opinion anything after 6 weeks is murder unless real complications are very possible and/or likely.


Thank you for sharing your story.
I once was one of those unplanned, inconvenient pregnancies. My parents, though not married at the time, chose to allow me to live...love and raise me.

I'm grateful...MY children are ALSO grateful.


Glad to hear it.

I don't think I was planned either, in fact my dad run away when I was 3 so he clearly wasn't prepared.

I often wonder what he/she would be doing now, had we decided to keep it. I truly am gutted. Like I said, it was years ago and I was young and inexperienced, but still...


My wife's mother was left pregnant in the same way (the pig ran away, as well). Her daughter/my future wife grew up to give birth to two wonderful children.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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Why let it bother you when it has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
You can not know how it feels to carry a baby.
So instead of basically demonising women for making a choice which they have to deal with maybe come up with sutions to decrease the need for abortion.
Nah you never suggest answers you only rant to call some women murderers.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: boymonkey74


What solutions do you suggest?
Last I heard there are many birth prevention options.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: HighFive

Just a little note on this. The surgery to remove an ectopic growth is not an abortion. It's called a salpingostomy or salpingectomy, depending on the size of the growth. It's actual surgery. I know this because I had to have one.

There are cases where an abortion is medically necessary, but ectopic pregnancy isn't one of them.

a reply to: butcherguy

Awww... Thank you! I love eggs!



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Here's where I am on abortion. I think it's killing a person.

And when I hear people say, I'm against killing, but I think people should be free to kill", then I cringe.

So I tend to edge near the topic but don't say much about it overall. It's a difficult topic to debate and no one will ever be the winner in a discussion on it.

So I'm going to agree to disagree on the abortion debate.

And that's my final word on the subject.



posted on Dec, 2 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

You can always adopt my stance on abortion. I rejected the popular narratives from both "sides" of the argument & reached my own conclusions. I'm against abortion but I don't want the mothers or the unborn children to suffer or die. So I simply focus on ways to prevent abortions in the first place.

1. Contraceptives. I think people should be on contraceptives to eliminate "unwanted" or "unexpected" pregnancies. This includes a male contraceptive (after all, it takes 2 to make a pregnancy). I don't believe in going far enough to mandate it, but I do think easy access to contraceptives will reduce the need for abortions.

2. Zero tolerance for rape. Society needs to have a true "War on Rape". Rape needs to become so harshly punished, stigmatized and repulsive to society that people don't even consider raping someone to be an option. I believe this for many reasons, but one outcome would be the elimination of abortions due to rape.

3. Find out all of the possible medical conditions that can force a pregnant woman to choose between herself & her unborn child, then make our healthcare system focus on finding cures/solutions for them. We did it with polio so surely we can do it for our women and children. Death-by-childbirth should be a relic of the past, not a daily occurrence in an "advanced" society.

4. Adoption. I'd prefer a mother give her child up for adoption over aborting the pregnancy. There are so many couples out there that want kids but can't physically have them. So this is pretty much a matchmaking option. (note: We have to be careful with this though. Many child trafficking rings start off as adoption agencies. Then they start making more money than they expected and become corrupted, usually by pressuring poor women to give up their children or pretending the child died in childbirth when it really didn't. There must be real safeguards to prevent that crap from happening with this option.)

5. I doubt you'll agree with this one because you're a libertarian. But I honestly think couples should either have to register (like for voting) or have to get a free "parenting license" in order to have children. The details could be worked out later, but I think couples should sign a legal contract/form that shows they understand the risks, rights, privileges, and responsibilities that come with being parents. That license/contract is legally binding and ensures they know about child support laws, child abuse & neglect laws, and the such (as well as the punishments for abandoning children). It would also guarantee that they know they're legally responsible for taking care of their children.

I'm a socialist, so I have no problem with a strong social safety net. But I also think parents should man up/woman up & take care of their responsibilities first. So this license would be more about teaching the risks & rewards of having children. If they realize they're not ready, they can stay on contraceptives. But if they believe they're ready, they can do so.



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