Single Element Proof The Bible Is BS

a reply to: TheSorrow

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Is your problem that these people had pride? Their sin making God create all the strife in the world up to the present by creating the language barrier is because a bunch of people wanted to make something memorial? This on top of the fact that God supposedly allowed many other cultures to create VAST and memorable structures, some of which can be seen from space.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
If you're interested I'll give you my input.

It will be interesting to read about in a future thread

But your assumption is correct. I am strictly a theologian.

That means your views on the subject above (omniscient) are probably a bit biased.

No one even has asked what nimrods intentions really were. What was he trying to accomplish? All they think they know is that they might be building a tall building... SMH

This thread title is about the credibility of the bible myths...
Are Nimrods intentions going to add weight to the credibility of the story? If so please talk about it.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: TheSorrow
If you're interested I'll give you my input.

It will be interesting to read about in a future thread

But your assumption is correct. I am strictly a theologian.

That means your views on the subject above (omniscient) are probably a bit biased.

No one even has asked what nimrods intentions really were. What was he trying to accomplish? All they think they know is that they might be building a tall building... SMH

This thread title is about the credibility of the bible myths...
Are Nimrods intentions going to add weight to the credibility of the story? If so please talk about it.

Not so much bias as educated. But I believe that it is safe to say that we all have some bias one way or another based on experiences, our upbringing,our background, our level of education and other factors.

How can One attempt to judge its credibility without even knowing the main characters of the story? What was his intent? Who was he? What was he up to? What's going on? Just a tall building?

a reply to: TheSorrow

I quoted the tower of babel story to you in its entirety. There is no mention of Nimrod, which version are you reading? It seems like you are adding in things that weren't part of the original story and making assumptions about it. Everything I quoted in the wikipedia articles can be verified by external sources. Wiki is not a source. The references at the bottom of the page are the sources.

So since you strictly want to focus on Babel, I will debunk the story quick and easily.

The first known written language is Egyptian, estimated at 2690 BC. Sumerian also goes back to the 26th century BC, but likely has older accounts.

c. 2400 BC Akkadian A few dozen pre-Sargonic texts from Mari and other sites in northern Babylonia[7] Some proper names attested in Sumerian texts at Tell Harmal from about 2800 BC.[8] Fragments of the Legend of Etana at Tell Harmal c. 2600 BC.[9]
c. 2400 BC Eblaite Ebla tablets[10]
c. 2250 BC Elamite Awan dynasty peace treaty with Naram-Sin[11][12]
21st century BC Hurrian Temple inscription of Tish-atal in Urkesh[13]
c. 1700 BC Hittite Anitta text in Hittite cuneiform[14] Isolated Hittite words and names occur in Assyrian texts found at Kültepe, from the 19th century BC.
16th century BC Palaic Hittite texts CTH 751–754[15]
c. 1450 BC Mycenaean Greek Linear B tablet archive from Knossos[16][17][18] the Greek alphabet would not be developed until the 8th century BC.
c. 1400 BC Luwian Hieroglyphic Luwian monumental inscriptions, Cuneiform Luwian tablets in the Hattusa archives[19] Isolated hieroglyphs appear on seals from the 18th century BC.[19]
c. 1400 BC Hattic Hittite texts CTH 725–745
c. 1300 BC Ugaritic Tablets from Ugarit[20] see Ugaritic alphabet
c. 1200 BC Old Chinese Oracle bone and bronze inscriptions from the reign of Wu Ding[21][22][23]

This clearly shows that languages separated slowly over time. They didn't scatter in one big event. There is no evidence of such an event. So when does the tower of babel story take place and what languages were created as a result? Language has slowly changed and evolved over time.

"trying to build up to God when we have Rockets, skyscrapers and spaceships and we still haven't found God"

That wasn't my argument. In the official story, god didn't like the fact that they were all working together to achieve their goals. He felt that if they built the tower, they could do anything, including the impossible. My question was, why did god care then but not today? I'm not asking why we didn't find god. I'm just saying the account of the story is not true because various languages evolved at different times, they didn't all suddenly emerge at once as the story claims.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TheSorrow

I quoted the tower of babel story to you in its entirety. There is no mention of Nimrod, which version are you reading? It seems like you are adding in things that weren't part of the original story and making assumptions about it. Everything I quoted in the wikipedia articles can be verified by external sources. Wiki is not a source. The references at the bottom of the page are the sources.

So since you strictly want to focus on Babel, I will debunk the story quick and easily.

The first known written language is Egyptian, estimated at 2690 BC. Sumerian also goes back to the 26th century BC, but likely has older accounts.

c. 2400 BC Akkadian A few dozen pre-Sargonic texts from Mari and other sites in northern Babylonia[7] Some proper names attested in Sumerian texts at Tell Harmal from about 2800 BC.[8] Fragments of the Legend of Etana at Tell Harmal c. 2600 BC.[9]
c. 2400 BC Eblaite Ebla tablets[10]
c. 2250 BC Elamite Awan dynasty peace treaty with Naram-Sin[11][12]
21st century BC Hurrian Temple inscription of Tish-atal in Urkesh[13]
c. 1700 BC Hittite Anitta text in Hittite cuneiform[14] Isolated Hittite words and names occur in Assyrian texts found at Kültepe, from the 19th century BC.
16th century BC Palaic Hittite texts CTH 751–754[15]
c. 1450 BC Mycenaean Greek Linear B tablet archive from Knossos[16][17][18] the Greek alphabet would not be developed until the 8th century BC.
c. 1400 BC Luwian Hieroglyphic Luwian monumental inscriptions, Cuneiform Luwian tablets in the Hattusa archives[19] Isolated hieroglyphs appear on seals from the 18th century BC.[19]
c. 1400 BC Hattic Hittite texts CTH 725–745
c. 1300 BC Ugaritic Tablets from Ugarit[20] see Ugaritic alphabet
c. 1200 BC Old Chinese Oracle bone and bronze inscriptions from the reign of Wu Ding[21][22][23]

This clearly shows that languages separated slowly over time. They didn't scatter in one big event. There is no evidence of such an event. So when does the tower of babel story take place and what languages were created as a result? Language has slowly changed and evolved over time.

"trying to build up to God when we have Rockets, skyscrapers and spaceships and we still haven't found God"

That wasn't my argument. In the official story, god didn't like the fact that they were all working together to achieve their goals. He felt that if they built the tower, they could do anything, including the impossible. My question was, why did god care then but not today? I'm not asking why we didn't find god. I'm just saying the account of the story is not true because various languages evolved at different times, they didn't all suddenly emerge at once as the story claims.

What were the goals? How where they trying to achieve those goals?

Nimrod is a big factor. He is essentially the first "anti Christ"- that's my own interpretation.

God's command is to go out and take care of the earth. Live free, Be fruitful and make the earth fruitful. Not destroy it and pollute it. Which might be a great argument for those of you care about the environment and want to encourage those who believe in the Bible to pursue a "greener" lifestyle or public policy.

To make it simple- The people are doing the opposite. They're becoming very wicked, enslaved, and the list could go on. God intervenes to save all of mankind.

As a theologian you should accept that this story is just a teaching and not real history
But what is the meaning of this myth?
My questions are;
-Is God opposing the various ambitions of humanity to overcome itself with technological and scientific progress?
-Is God opposing the united humanity? (As barcs said earlier)
-Is God arrogant enough to stop humans reaching his level of knowledge?
the last assumption can be backed up by the forbidden Tree of knowledge

Also since Nimrod is such a big factor please explain us his story.... is he the one that acted like another ''serpent'' convincing humanity that they can reach god?
If so why an ambitious emperor who united the humanity would be evil and an antichrist rather than a hero.

Didn't God as a father of all humans wanted his children to make progress?
A real father doesn't mind if his children want to reach him, he encourages them...
If that is not plain arrogance by Yahweh than what was it?

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
As a theologian you should accept that this story is just a teaching and not real history
But what is the meaning of this myth?
My questions are;
-Is God opposing the various ambitions of humanity to overcome itself with technological and scientific progress?
-Is God opposing the united humanity? (As barcs said earlier)
-Is God arrogant enough to stop humans reaching his level of knowledge?
the last assumption can be backed up by the forbidden Tree of knowledge

Also since Nimrod is such a big factor please explain us his story.... is he the one that acted like another ''serpent'' convincing humanity that they can reach god?
If so why an ambitious emperor who united the humanity would be evil and an antichrist rather than a hero.

Didn't God as a father of all humans wanted his children to make progress?
A real father doesn't mind if his children want to reach him, he encourages them...
If that is not plain arrogance by Yahweh than what was it?

You're exactly right. Because they're entering into a system of slavery, depravity and oppression God intervenes.

Some might think that they are moving towards independence or technological advances. This would obviously be inaccurate. They are clearly going backwards.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
You're exactly right. Because they're entering into a system of slavery, depravity and oppression God intervenes.

Some might think that they are moving towards independence or technological advances. This would obviously be inaccurate. They are clearly going backwards.

What's missing in this post is - god works in mysterious ways...

How common good lead to slavery and if slavery is something bad, why all mighty did not just simply say so??

Somehow this image best explains bible and your (biased) view of it...

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: TheSorrow
You're exactly right. Because they're entering into a system of slavery, depravity and oppression God intervenes.

Some might think that they are moving towards independence or technological advances. This would obviously be inaccurate. They are clearly going backwards.

What's missing in this post is - god works in mysterious ways...

How common good lead to slavery and if slavery is something bad, why all mighty did not just simply say so??

Somehow this image best explains bible and your (biased) view of it...

I don't think I understand. This is another misquote. The Bible never says "God works in mysterious ways".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm so glad you posted the verses. I have always questioned this story because first it makes no sense and is easily refuted if you study other races and their origins, and second it paints an "almighty" being as being weak and scared.

Verses 5-7 are amazing in their connotation. The key phrase is "nothing will be impossible for them". This tower project frightens God so much that He has to personally intervene in the project. There is no way you can build a tower or even a stairway to Heaven so why intervene at all? Let the stupid mortals build their tower of folly and when it eventually falls over sit there and laugh. Then use its collapse as a cautionary tale about the arrogance/folly of men and the fate of those who challenge God's supremacy. A Supreme Being shouldn't be worried about our puny actions, yet this project scared the bejeezus out of Him and acted on His fear. We scared God.

a reply to: Foundryman

That is one of the biggest problems I have with the god in the bible, for a god that is supposed to be all loving to everyone no matter their actions this god is AWFULLY petty and judgmental.

originally posted by: TheSorrow

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: TheSorrow
I've heard people say that several times now. That God is "omniscient" or "omnipresent"... I don't know where people get that from. People who say that- I don't think I've ever read the Bible. They make up stuff that is not even in the Bible and then criticize it. SMH

About omniscience in the bible:

Isaiah 46:9

I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done.

Psalm 139:4

Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.

Job 28:24

For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

1 John 3:19-20

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

1 Samuel 2:3

Talk no more so very proudly,
let not arrogance come from your mouth;
for the LORD is a God of knowledge,
and by him actions are weighed.

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Plus... an omniscient and omnipotent God is the first thing they teach us on Sunday school,
There is not even one christian or Jew or Muslim who doesn't believe God (yahweh) is omniscient.

You don't know the bible as well as you think which is normal for the religious people,
Read the bible more and more until some day you become an atheist. It's a natural path of logic..
have fun...

For those who are uneducated on the issue ...

Yeah, yeah. We got the idea by now. You think you know more than everyone else.

So why not just give us your take on Nimrod and Babel already instead of complaining about no one talking about it?

For starters, if the concern is what's actually in the Bible there's nothing even there that directly links Nimrod to the Tower of Babel story. He's barely mentioned in the Bible at all.

originally posted by: Foundryman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm so glad you posted the verses. I have always questioned this story because first it makes no sense and is easily refuted if you study other races and their origins, and second it paints an "almighty" being as being weak and scared.

Verses 5-7 are amazing in their connotation. The key phrase is "nothing will be impossible for them". This tower project frightens God so much that He has to personally intervene in the project. There is no way you can build a tower or even a stairway to Heaven so why intervene at all? Let the stupid mortals build their tower of folly and when it eventually falls over sit there and laugh. Then use its collapse as a cautionary tale about the arrogance/folly of men and the fate of those who challenge God's supremacy. A Supreme Being shouldn't be worried about our puny actions, yet this project scared the bejeezus out of Him and acted on His fear. We scared God.

Sadly, you do not understand The story. Have you read it? It is a very common misunderstanding for people to believe that they were trying to build physically up and into the sky for the purpose of physically reaching God.

a reply to: TheSorrow

How about explaining it? I posted the passages about the tower of babel as a response to your last post about this and you ignored it. If you think you are SOOOO much more educated on this story than everyone else, then tell us what you are talking about.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
I don't think I understand. This is another misquote. The Bible never says "God works in mysterious ways".

Of course you don't understand... even you well educated... Reason I said following quote was missing is because you somehow got wrong conclusion from Dr1Akula post. Only way it would make sense, if you use the same quote that is often used by bible apologist when they don't have any arguments, just like you don't have it here...

originally posted by: TheSorrow

Sadly, you do not understand The story. Have you read it? It is a very common misunderstanding for people to believe that they were trying to build physically up and into the sky for the purpose of physically reaching God.

Care to explain it...

I am sure many here are waiting for you explanation of the story... enlighten us... please....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheSorrow

How about explaining it? I posted the passages about the tower of babel as a response to your last post about this and you ignored it. If you think you are SOOOO much more educated on this story than everyone else, then tell us what you are talking about.

Fact or fiction believe what you want. But AT LEAST understand the story being told.

Nimrod was a very significant man in ancient/ Bible times. He is the grandson of Ham and great-grandson of Noah. Some of those names might be familiar to even those who do not own a Bible. He was also the founder of a city called Babylon. To discount him from the story removes much of the background and relevant facts as to what's happening.

He is a slave owner (hunter of men) and is attempting to enslave all people and contain/ control them by making them dependent upon him in a single city. (I personally see him as satan's first attempt at an anti Christ that will dominate all the people of the earth. #NWO) yes he might be crazy or this might be a crazy endeavor but it is his intention. We've seen others like him throughout history. So it's not a completely isolated example of how men wish to enslave other men and on such large scales.

He attempts to exalt not mankind as a whole but rather himself as a god. To help achieve this he creates a temple with which he will reach God. Each level of the tower is a level closer to God (spiritually and not physically). This eventually results in a tower that is expanding upwards. See Job chapter 1 as a reference- Nimrod is attempting the same to do the same thing satan does in Job 1. The expansion upward into a tower is merely a byproduct, not necessarily the intent.

This results in the decaying nature of humanity. And eventually why God intervenes. Mankind is becoming a race of slaves and depravity. Or a many who are controlled by a small few- sound familiar?

There's also a lot of symbolism in the story. For example look at what they used to create the temple. Unlike other structures of the day (stone) they chose brick-and-mortar. Which could be metaphorical or symbolic in that all people need to be "brick-and-mortar" or in other words identical. Losing all uniqueness and individuality. All of which conflicts with God's command to all mankind. He is commanded that everyone be fruitful, multiply and spread out. Among other things.

There is much more to the story. I hope I did not over simplify it. As I said before, believe what you want. Fact or fiction. Is this just a fantasy? A story? I suggest at least trying to understand the story and what's happening.

a reply to: TheSorrow

Where did you get all this information? I don't even seen Nimrod's name mentioned in the tower of babel account. How do you know he was the one presiding over the city when the tower was built? Babylon existed for a LONG time.

originally posted by: TheSorrow

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheSorrow

How about explaining it? I posted the passages about the tower of babel as a response to your last post about this and you ignored it. If you think you are SOOOO much more educated on this story than everyone else, then tell us what you are talking about.

He [Nimrod] was also the founder of a city called Babylon.

Which would also be "Babel" if you're going by the Biblical text.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
He is a slave owner (hunter of men) and is attempting to enslave all people and contain/ control them by making them dependent upon him in a single city.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow

He attempts to exalt not mankind as a whole but rather himself as a god.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
To help achieve this he creates a temple with which he will reach God. Each level of the tower is a level closer to God (spiritually and not physically).

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
See Job chapter 1 as a reference- Nimrod is attempting the same to do the same thing satan does in Job 1.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
This results in the decaying nature of humanity. And eventually why God intervenes. Mankind is becoming a race of slaves and depravity. Or a many who are controlled by a small few- sound familiar?

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: TheSorrow

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheSorrow

How about explaining it? I posted the passages about the tower of babel as a response to your last post about this and you ignored it. If you think you are SOOOO much more educated on this story than everyone else, then tell us what you are talking about.

He [Nimrod] was also the founder of a city called Babylon.

Which would also be "Babel" if you're going by the Biblical text.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
He is a slave owner (hunter of men) and is attempting to enslave all people and contain/ control them by making them dependent upon him in a single city.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow

He attempts to exalt not mankind as a whole but rather himself as a god.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
To help achieve this he creates a temple with which he will reach God. Each level of the tower is a level closer to God (spiritually and not physically).

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
See Job chapter 1 as a reference- Nimrod is attempting the same to do the same thing satan does in Job 1.

Not in the Bible.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
This results in the decaying nature of humanity. And eventually why God intervenes. Mankind is becoming a race of slaves and depravity. Or a many who are controlled by a small few- sound familiar?

Not in the Bible.

If you take time to look through the story you'll find it's all accurate. Would you like me to go line by line through all that?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheSorrow

Where did you get all this information? I don't even seen Nimrod's name mentioned in the tower of babel account. How do you know he was the one presiding over the city when the tower was built? Babylon existed for a LONG time.

It's my job. Not to mention six years in a seminary.