On "White Male Privilege"

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think that if there ever was such a thing as "White Male Privilege" in my nation, then either it stopped well before 1985, when I was born, or you have to be stinking rich to ever benefit from it. My family has been screwed by the system from the year dot, and it's getting worse not better, and here I am, a thirty year old male with a good head on his shoulders, with no savings, no autonomy, and living with my mother.

I have to say, I have never felt all that privileged. But living the first sixteen years of your life in a house which had meter wide holes in it in places, going to violent and dangerous schools, and only actually knowing what normal social interaction was like from adolescence onward, rather than from childhood onward like most other folk, lends one a certain perspective on ones situation. I have no doubt that someone could come up and point out to me where my WMP came in to save me, or give me an advantage, but I have bugger all chance of seeing it from where I am at the moment!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
the media loves to play races against one another.

This I agree with and I think holds much of the blame, but not in the way you probably meant it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a major difference in these two cases:
Case 1. White guy gets pulled over for minor infraction, is respectful to the officer, has license, registration, and insurance checked, all clean. Gets a warning, thanks officer and goes on with his day.
Case 2. Minority is pulled over for minor infraction, is rude to officer, plays race card for getting pulled over in the first place, escalates the entire situation. May respond to officer now irritated and issuing ticket with more rudeness, possibly even further escalation.
This is by no means all police encounters, but then again more whites were shot by police last year than minorities so statistically there goes "white privilege" out the window.
The media has played a huge role here. The media fills people's heads with ideas that they will be discriminated against, officers are racists or classists, employers are greedy slave drivers, employers are racist, school tests are racist, hell even the wording used is a psy-op... "disadvantaged" and "less fortunate" note the lack of any personal responsibility in those terms... it's all geared towards making people feel like the deck is totally stacked against them and they have zero power to change it.

Your interview example, there are many variables at play there which have nothing to do with race. If the minority candidate was less enthusiastic, communicated less effectively, reacted in a negative way to a standard question, had a chip on their shoulder, etc... it all plays a factor and without fully analyzing the entire interview there's is no way to hypothesize that it was not one of these factors.

Bottom line, you can't expect to fail and then blame everyone else when success doesn't fall into your lap.

a reply to: amazing

Congrats!

I doubt I have ever seen more logical fallacies in so short a response.

Existential Fallacy:

Life is easier for you. That's just the way it is. If you say you're a Christian, then it gets still easier.

Appeal to the Stone Fallacy:

To say that this is not true is the height of ignorance.

Begging the Question Fallacy:

We know that in certain countries, especially USA and UK, that being both White and Male gives you some privileges.

Ecological Fallacy:

...this advantage can be big or small but it's definitely there...

Kettle Logic:

The only white males who don't think they have an advantage in life, are the ones that are Lazy and prefer to play the victim card and lack personal responsibility.

There may be some truth in your response somewhere but it simply sounds like perpetuating prejudice.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Privilege is always granted, and it needs to be granted from living beings to other living beings.

Indeed, you are not personally born with it - you are born into a society where it exists.

Lets take a single example and look at the 60's in the Southern States of the US - because white privilege was normal and as evident and commonplace as the Sun and Moon........

During his trip, Griffin abided by the rule that he would not change his name or alter his identity; if asked who he was or what he was doing, he would tell the truth. In the beginning, he decided to talk as little as possible to ease his transition into the social milieu of southern U.S. blacks. He became accustomed everywhere to the "hate stare" received from whites.

After he disguised himself, many people who knew John Howard Griffin as a white man did not recognize him. A black shoeshine man named Sterling Williams in the French Quarter, a man whom Griffin regarded as a friend, made no connection with his looks now that he was black. Because Griffin wanted assistance in integrating with the black community, he decided to tell Sterling that he was in fact the white man he'd met before. He first hinted that he wore the same unusual shoes as somebody else, but Sterling still did not recognize him until Griffin told him.

In New Orleans, a black counterman at a small restaurant chatted with Griffin about the difficulties of finding a place to go to the bathroom. He turned a question about a Catholic church into a joke about "spending much of your time praying for a place to piss".

On a bus trip, Griffin began to give his seat to a white woman, but disapproving looks from black passengers stopped him. He thought he had a momentary breakthrough with the woman, but she insulted him and began talking with other white passengers about how impudent the blacks were becoming.

Black Like Me - John Howard Griffin

and that's just a snapshot of one example of Americas dirty laundry, all nations have equal dirty laundry, it comes with the territory. The problem is when folks think and take action that "racism" equates to something bad.

I am a racist when I single-out a black person and assist them either financially or psychologically - I have profiled the race and focused my attention on that particular race - albeit in a positive light - racist in it's connotations nonetheless.

White male privilege my fat white lady butt. IF any privilege exists, it's most certainly called "Clean-cut and/or Attractive Person Privilege". How many times does a hot chick get everything handed to her on a silver platter versus plain janes & average women? How many times does the sharp man in the business suit get waited on hand & foot versus the guy in jeans & a beat-up T-shirt? How many times do both cross skin color boundaries? Plenty.

My husband is from Germany & certainly looks the same as any white American. He also grew his hair out & used to have long hair to the middle of his back at one point. He also has many tattoos, visible. He got pretty crappy treatment from other people simply over a long pony tail & ink. People assumed he was a thug, a gang banger, casing places, a junkie, etc. Cops hassled him on the street going to & fro, based on nothing other than how he looked. White privilege, huh? Didn't really work for him being profiled daily. He cut his hair & covered up the tats, and guess what stopped?

Take your "white privilege" and shove it. It's not a skin thing, it's an appearance & dress privilege.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: butcherguy
I think rich privilege is alive and well. What privilege does a white trailer trash kid from Arkansas have?
It seems that Barack Obama had a privileged life compared to a lot of those type of kids.

The irony is both Obama and a white trailer trash kid from Arkansas have held the highest office in the land... Proof it can be done even by an unprivileged caucasian male.

I don't believe that Bill Clinton was actually white trash while growing up. That was a manufactured narrative. My cousin's wife attended band camp with him. He wasn't underprivileged. White trash families can't afford a saxophone, let alone sending their kids to band camp.
He was groomed for job. Met JFK while at Boys Nation... Fulbright scholar.... not white trailer trash.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

this guy explains it all

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It is no question that racism exists. Indeed it is the crux of the argument. Is it valid? It's stupidity, based on a pseudo folk-science. Sociology is the science of superstition. Racism is irrational, circular, whether positive or negative, whether one identifies as a race or judges based on race. It is illogical. It tells us nothing of individual character, value, or ethic, which is discovered with good old fashioned human interaction. A pint in the pub will tell us more about a person than all the history one can read, than all the statistics, which are essentially meaningless. Skin color is for descriptive purposes. A human is a body, not a skin, not a vagina, not a brain, not a sexual preference. It's an individual. A skin, a tax bracket, a gender, does not nor can not indicate whether one is deserved of your compassion or your hate. Only an individual can.

The same goes for those who attempt to live up to what is expected of their race, their gender or their sexual preference, who identify as their adjectives instead of the noun. Is a first name not enough?

To judge a person as privileged or underprivileged based on race does not account for any facts. It is conjecture. To act on that conjecture is arrogant, presumptuous, and foolish.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

watch that video. it isn't a race problem, it's a genetic issue, related directly to whether you had both a mother and father when you were raised.

' White privilege' is a made up term like gun violence,war on women, and every other phrased made up by politicos.

It's nonsense with no basis in reality.

Although one could say those that throw around that term 'white privilege' suffer from a psychosis called 'white guilt'.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

People with this type of mindset cannot be reasoned with. They have had the "privileged white male" ideal so firmly ingrained into their psych that it is apart of their being.

These are the same people that will tell you that if there is one exception to a stereotype then that stereotype is false, while in the same breath will attempt to affirm the white privilege myth. How intellectually inconsistent of them...

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: SaturnFX
White privilege was definitely true

Is there Asian privilege in Japan or China?

no clue,I'm not there, and my knowledge of far east history is pretty non existent.

I could google it, but its irrelevant to the topic at hand (assuming here that ops is discussing western civilization..aka west europe and north america)

So you do believe it's just a white thing?

White privilege does not mean that all whites start off with a get ahead in life pass. It is just one of a wide range of interdependent factors (economic & social) that determine an individual's life chances.

Trying to say that an individual has an inherent life advantage just based on the colour of their skin is ridiculous. However it is equally ridiculous to try and dismiss the fact that race does have an impact based on personal anecdote of being white and not being advantaged.

Figures published today show black people are up to 17.5 times more likely than white people to be stopped and searched by the police in certain areas of the UK. This enormous disparity is no great surprise. The issue of stop and search has dogged the police service for decades, sparking riots in Brixton in 1981 and in various parts of the country in 1985. Despite Theresa May, the home secretary, pledging to tackle the issue, there has been little faith that much would change. What is surprising about these figures, however, is which police forces are the worst offenders
www.theguardian.com...

I would say there's plenty of evidence to suggest black people are more harshly treated with in the criminal justice system. You might not feel you have received the benefits of being white on a personal level, but that doesn't mean white privilege doesn't exist.

It don't think it's White Privilege, but rather Class Privilege. I've lived in D.C., Tennessee and West Virginia. I've lived in ghettos, middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods. I've noticed that cops in the lower class neighborhoods treat people (White, Black and Hispanic) with disrespect. They come in to the White trailer parks and will use profanity while quick to throw someone down or get in their face and antagonize.

Yet, I've seen them come to the upper and middle class neighborhoods and the police will act polite saying "Yes Sir, Yes Mam etc". If there is a problem and they have to arrest someone it's always civil and usually a quiet process. Maybe because they know these people have money and a education, so they don't want to get out of line and lose their jobs while the lower class don't have money and usually lack education so they think they can get away with anything.

So my take on it all from what I've seen is there is a difference in the way police act depending on what neighborhood they are in. This is Class Privilege.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: amazing

Congrats!

I doubt I have ever seen more logical fallacies in so short a response.

Existential Fallacy:

Life is easier for you. That's just the way it is. If you say you're a Christian, then it gets still easier.

Appeal to the Stone Fallacy:

To say that this is not true is the height of ignorance.

Begging the Question Fallacy:

We know that in certain countries, especially USA and UK, that being both White and Male gives you some privileges.

Ecological Fallacy:

...this advantage can be big or small but it's definitely there...

Kettle Logic:

The only white males who don't think they have an advantage in life, are the ones that are Lazy and prefer to play the victim card and lack personal responsibility.

There may be some truth in your response somewhere but it simply sounds like perpetuating prejudice.

As much as you want to insert some kind of title on each of my sentences, it doesn't change that fact that life is easier if you are white, male and Christian. At least in the USA. There are plenty of statistics to back this up, just do some google searches. Deny ignorance my friend.

If you disagree with me, which is fine, then why are only 4% of Fortune 500 Companies minority? Some earlier have said it's because minorities are lazy. I find that hard to believe. And that's just one small statistic.

It's always White,Black,Asian or Hispanic this or that. When I look at the rates I notice one thing next to no people of East Indian decent in the western prison system. Many come from well off family's back home to even make it to a western country and once here often have jobs that require high education.

In my opinion perhaps it is Punjab Priverilage.


reply to: LesMisanthrope

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

There is a reason that the combat corps of the US military is 80+% white, protestant, middle class males. They can not get enough of any other socio-racial-economic group to fill the positions or do the duty.

If someone is so inclined to help locate the study or statistics I'm about to talk about, have at it even if it's to tell me it's all in my head. I believe I read on Fox News of all places, that there is a 'white privilege' of sorts because people tend to view some minorities as older than they are. That would relate to how the police and the public would interact with them.

In personal experience, I went to a high school that white is the minority. Funny thing is, the advance placement classes were mostly not as such, the next tier down was more representative of the school population. That being said, the graduation rates were and have been hovering around 50%, of course the majority of the dropouts were minorities. I think that does hint toward the problem being more than just privilege. To add upon that, I am white yet the district did try to put me in with 'under performers' for no apparent reason except to be discriminatory about an aspect of me I don't care to figure out anymore.

In a second hand telling from college, in the same city as my high school, freshman year I was in a very mixed English class. One young woman of African descent told the class about where she came from. What she had said is that there was many times in here predominantly African American school; when the teacher would ask a question and she would raise her hand, the response from her fellow classmates was "Yo, don't be white!" There again is the 'white privilege.' Yes I say that is 'white privilege' because that is an excellent example of a privilege being handed out to white Americans, but it's coming from quite the opposite place that one would expect.

My conclusion, surprisingly even to me because thinking about this as I write has me changing my mind a bit on the subject, is there is a white privilege. But not the way most people believe in it or as powerful as some want to believe.

Asians do better in America than whites, both educationally and financially. "White privilege" is just a term invented by racists and radicals to spark racial tensions and lead to their "revolution". It's complete garbage, and rational people understand this. The only place white privilege exists is in the mind of left wing loons.