On "White Male Privilege"

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
A black friend of mine with a college education was pulled over one night. The first thing the white officer said to him before anything else -- literally the first thing that was said was, "What kind of education do you have?"

When he told me this I was in shock. He told me he replied, "Um...I've got a college degree from [insert local college] officer?"

It's not like my friends car is in disrepair or "ugly". We both think it was an odd question, and it was clearly motivated by his race. I've never been asked that by the local police here.

Oh my, well CLEARLY then, it obviously, 100% without a doubt had to be a racially motivated question.... LOL

I guess you're not aware that quite often Police ask people strange questions or questions that are designed to make the person uneasy, just to see if they react oddly, or are impaired in any way.

And see the problem is, when a white person gets asked that SAME EXACT question, they just find it strange. Racism very often is a self-fulfilling delusion eg. a person is convinced that everyone dislikes them beause of their race, so ANYTHING that ever happens in this persons life they immediately jump to it being "RACISSTTTTTTT!!"

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I was talking to a few of my friends not long ago about this "white privilege" thing. We were playing video games and chatting over headsets to one another. One said it to me like this:

"Yeah, I guess you can think of it like this game. Being a white male is like starting the game on an easier setting".

I thought that was an interesting way of putting it.

What a total LOAD OF GARBAGE!!

I was born to a working class mother and father, well before my 3rd birthday my mom had died. My firefighter father with some help raised me in a small house on a dirt road. I was under 5 when he became an angry abusive alcoholic, and later he married a truly miserable manipulative psycho insecure woman who added in some psychological abuse to help balance things out for me.

White privilege didn't do SH!T for me. I found a great group of friends, spent lots of time out of the house, and ultimately found happiness in myself. Picked my grades up later in High School, got a scholarship into an engineering program and decided to take my life somewhere.

WHITE PRIVILEGE must have done all that for me though right???

Must have been white privelege that built Rome too. And white privilege that invented the televison, electricity, steam engine, transistor, structural steel.


Seriously WakeTFU. This whole world has gone insane with insecurity and inability to create. So the ones who can;t built and create simply come up with PC garbage guilt-trip bullsh!t to try and bring down the movers shakers and producers.

I am not falling for it.

I am not ashamed of my own abilities.

I will not be guilt-tripped, browbeaten, tied down and exsanguinated.

I am AWESOME, and I am FED UP WITH THE INSANITY!!!!

Here is some satire I think speaks to the issue of white privilege. I layed face down after watching it, it felt good lolol!

A good explanation in my view

occupywallstreet.net...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
A good explanation in my view

occupywallstreet.net...

That really is the key imho. Intersectionality. Dave Chappelle once said, "You don't have to be racist to unknowingly benefit from racism." I would extend that to include ableism, sexism, etc. etc.

That doesn't mean those of us (myself included) who benefit from certain forms of privilege want to or choose to, or that we all experience every single facet of it. For instance, like the author you linked to, I too grew up extremely poor and in fact in and out of homeless shelters, so I certainly didn't get to experience the economic benefits in any way appreciable to me, compounded by chronic health problems amounting to what is - in every way but name - disability... but that doesn't mean I don't have any privilege whether I want it or not. I do. The degree to which one benefits, and how, can differ.

It doesn't make one a bad person. It's a relevant facet of sociology, and simply means there are dynamics at play we would do well to be cognizant of and (in my opinion) sensitive to, which afford certain people certain advantages. No more, no less.

I think it's when people feel it is used as a bludgeon to invalidate their own suffering and struggle in life from their point of view - irrespective of any privilige which may exist - that they feel attacked by the concept. Which is why intersectionality is so important when discussing this issue in my opinion. It acknowledges and explores those nuances, and allows for a less cut and dried approach to these social (and other) factors and how they interact.

Then there's the issue of false equivalency. For instance, take my situation. I'm autistic, sick a lot, have physical limitations, grew up very poor, and depend on housing subsidization and a free state health insurance to survive essentially. Someone in my shoes being told that they have privilege might be interpreted very defensively. But someone with the exact same issues I have could still be in a much or at least marginally worse position than me if they happen to be a minority, have even less money, happen to be LGBT, etc. depending upon the community they live in, and in general.

That means I have privilege whether I want it, or seek it, or not. It doesn't mean anyone is telling me I have it super good and should shut up and be thankful or that I have to give up all my possessions until those worse off than me are at least at my socioeconomic and social level before I "dare" to lament any of my own suffering. No one is calling me evil, or racist, or insensitive purely on the basis that this privilege exists. (Especially since I'm aware of it.) That is not what is meant by suggesting someone has privilege, at least not in any of the scholarly descriptions of it I've ever been privy to. It just means I have some advantages other lack. That's it.

This is true in collectively marginalized segments of society as well. Within the LGBT community for instance, Trans folks tend to be the most disenfranchised and stigmatized, even among those already facing those challenges. That's intersectionality. That's hugely important to acknowledging the nature of privilege in my view.

And of course, simply by virtue of being in a first world country (those of us who are that is,) we have privilege.

Acknowledging it does not mean admitting you're a bad person of guilty in the charge of all the world's ills. It's not about that. It's about cultivating sensitivity within yourself, and thus contributing to a collective (hopefully) reduction in these dynamics over time.

There is always someone worse off than you, no matter what. That doesn't mean you have to be a psychic empath bleeding along with every human being on the planet and that if you don't. you're responsible. And it doesn't mean your own suffering isn't valid or relevant. It is. It's just about acknowledgement and trying to determine who might need the most help. Not about saying those at the bottom of the heap are the only ones who deserve or need compassion.

It's like triage. Doctors (good ones) still care about the pain you're in from, say, a kidney stone. Kidney stones are pure torture. I know, I've had them. Unbearable agony. And you're still going to need, and receive, treatment and assistance. But the burn victim who might die if untreated is still going to get seen first, ideally. And that's as it should be in my opinion. Because relative to them, the stable kidney stone sufferer might be said to be privileged.

As always, my two cents. I respect the views of those who disagree, as I know some will. Profoundly. That's fine.

Peace.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
A black friend of mine with a college education was pulled over one night. The first thing the white officer said to him before anything else -- literally the first thing that was said was, "What kind of education do you have?"

When he told me this I was in shock. He told me he replied, "Um...I've got a college degree from [insert local college] officer?"

It's not like my friends car is in disrepair or "ugly". We both think it was an odd question, and it was clearly motivated by his race. I've never been asked that by the local police here.

Oh my, well CLEARLY then, it obviously, 100% without a doubt had to be a racially motivated question.... LOL

I guess you're not aware that quite often Police ask people strange questions or questions that are designed to make the person uneasy, just to see if they react oddly, or are impaired in any way.

And see the problem is, when a white person gets asked that SAME EXACT question, they just find it strange. Racism very often is a self-fulfilling delusion eg. a person is convinced that everyone dislikes them beause of their race, so ANYTHING that ever happens in this persons life they immediately jump to it being "RACISSTTTTTTT!!"

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I was talking to a few of my friends not long ago about this "white privilege" thing. We were playing video games and chatting over headsets to one another. One said it to me like this:

"Yeah, I guess you can think of it like this game. Being a white male is like starting the game on an easier setting".

I thought that was an interesting way of putting it.

What a total LOAD OF GARBAGE!!

I was born to a working class mother and father, well before my 3rd birthday my mom had died. My firefighter father with some help raised me in a small house on a dirt road. I was under 5 when he became an angry abusive alcoholic, and later he married a truly miserable manipulative psycho insecure woman who added in some psychological abuse to help balance things out for me.

White privilege didn't do SH!T for me. I found a great group of friends, spent lots of time out of the house, and ultimately found happiness in myself. Picked my grades up later in High School, got a scholarship into an engineering program and decided to take my life somewhere.

WHITE PRIVILEGE must have done all that for me though right???

Must have been white privelege that built Rome too. And white privilege that invented the televison, electricity, steam engine, transistor, structural steel.


Seriously WakeTFU. This whole world has gone insane with insecurity and inability to create. So the ones who can;t built and create simply come up with PC garbage guilt-trip bullsh!t to try and bring down the movers shakers and producers.

I am not falling for it.

I am not ashamed of my own abilities.

I will not be guilt-tripped, browbeaten, tied down and exsanguinated.

I am AWESOME, and I am FED UP WITH THE INSANITY!!!!

Fantastic post.

Top stuff, bang on the money.

The funny thing about white privilege is that in spite of all the attempts to increase diversity in many institutions you still have white males who work hard and are successful.

I think that is why the social scientists love to invent new words and terms to try to explain how their particular demographic is not able to compete

No one can tell the gender or race of someone posting online. They also can't tell the gender or race of a programmer or app developer. We live in a world where race is less and less important because you can't see the person behind the keyboard that is doing the work.

I'm going to toast my privilege with a margarita tonight.

Cheers

a reply to: TheBulk

In Japan you can crash your motorbike drunk and get let off because you're a foreign devil. Foreign devil is a term still used, apparently based on the bearded appearance. Japanese/white children are discriminated against for not being pure Japanese. Whites in Japan are as scared of the Japanese government as the Japanese are. If you speak the truth about Fukushima you're in big trouble.

It's swings and roundabouts being white in Japan.

a reply to: butcherguy

And thank you for leaving the first supportive comment.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I know of a family in Bristol, UK. The mother is white. One of her sons has a white father and one has a black father. The child with the black father has been stopped and searched by police many times. The child with the white father has never been stopped and searched.

What I haven't been able to discover yet is whether they both wear the same style of clothes, hang out with similar sized groups of friends in similar areas at similar times and behave in a similar way. If there is no difference in their behaviour I call white privilege in this instance.

When it comes to getting on in the world and being chosen for a desired position. It seems the best advantage is gained from being a sold out BS swallower and regurgitator regardless of racial origins or gender.

As for male privilege. Yeah, sure. If you're female and you can convincingly disguise yourself as male try it sometime and see for yourself the 'privilege' of being expected to act in nasty situations just because you're male. I've experienced some ridiculous calls for help from women who could manage the situation themselves, or ignore it, but they see a man and think, 'I'll trick that sucker into doing my dirty work'.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Here is some satire I think speaks to the issue of white privilege. I layed face down after watching it, it felt good lolol!

Today I tried it again, dont know why but I feel less guilty after doing it lolz.

White privilege does exist for white males because as a white male we don't have to suffer institutionalised racism growing up as a male in a world where governments are inherently racist. Well the British empire was built on racism and slavery and whilst we abolished slavery the racism still exists in many forms.

Non white males born in the UK will suffer racism at some point in their lives either from other citizens or institutions of government such as the police.

Racism can be extremely detrimental to the development of children it serves only to hinder them and devalue them as human beings.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Figures published today show black people are up to 17.5 times more likely than white people to be stopped and searched by the police in certain areas of the UK. This enormous disparity is no great surprise. The issue of stop and search has dogged the police service for decades, sparking riots in Brixton in 1981 and in various parts of the country in 1985. Despite Theresa May, the home secretary, pledging to tackle the issue, there has been little faith that much would change. What is surprising about these figures, however, is which police forces are the worst offenders
www.theguardian.com...

I would say there's plenty of evidence to suggest black people are more harshly treated with in the criminal justice system. You might not feel you have received the benefits of being white on a personal level, but that doesn't mean white privilege doesn't exist.

I don't have time to look up the statistics now, but there is one group that is so staggeringly targeted by law enforcement at a disproportional rate it is mind blowing.

That group is men. Men are targeted way more, arrested more, get longer sentences, etc. This is much more disproportional than the race of a person.

So under your interpretation, there is a woman privlege correct?

originally posted by: amazing




If you disagree with me, which is fine, then why are only 4% of Fortune 500 Companies minority? Some earlier have said it's because minorities are lazy. I find that hard to believe. And that's just one small statistic.

But that is such a small percentage of people anyways, why should this be the qualifier if white male privilege exists or not?

Why not use the NBA.

76.3 percent
African-Americans comprised 76.3 percent of all NBA players. Eighty-one percent of players were players of color. • African-American head coaches represented 43.3 percent of all NBA head coaches, the second highest percentage in NBA history.

www.tidesport.org...

They average over 5 million a year in salary, let alone endorsements.
www.nba.com...

And there are around 500 players in the league, which is similar to the amount of ceos you are addressing.

So the NBA is racists against whites? No, they are just taking the most talented individuals based on who enters that field.

You using ceos of fortune 500's to prove white privilege is equally ridiculous.

As of 2013 there were 197,816,000 non Hispanic white people in America. I couldn't find the number, but lets assume half of them are men, thats 98908000 people.

You are talking about 500 jobs. That means the chances of a white man getting this job is 0.0000050552.

Your conclusion is that based on that all white men should acknowldege their privilege? That is laughable.

a reply to: Grambler

Everyone keeps claiming that there is this white privledge issue and its a huge problem. I have yet to see any solution to this problem. What do people think while males should do to fix this issue? I am truly curious to know what these socio experts think about a solution to the problem. Reverse discrimination? White genocide? A white tax?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: amazing
We know that in certain countries, especially USA and UK, that being both White and Male gives you some privileges.

Life is easier for you. That's just the way it is. If you say you're a Christian, then it gets still easier.

You get paid more, you get less police harassment, you get more and better job offers etc.

To say that this is not true is the height of ignorance.

The only white males who don't think they have an advantage in life, are the ones that are Lazy and prefer to play the victim card and lack personal responsibility. Granted, this advantage can be big or small but it's definitely there and can also be combined with family name and wealth, location of birth etc.

So a white male who doesn't think he has an advantage in life = lazy and faux-victim?

That's a pretty ridiculous assertion. It actually typifies what was described in the OP, i.e. the necessary abandonment of logic to uphold false ideas.

Not if you think it out.

White Males have an advantage in the USA. That's a given. The only white males that don't think that way are either

1. Playing the victim card and are the ones to say things like, I'd be succesful if not for Obama's Laws or that one guy that got hired because of affirmative action or my father never taught me anything. They always have an excuse to not take control of their own lives. They always blame others for their own misfortunes.

2. They are fairly content to work a non challenging 9-5, come home and drink beer at night and watch football on the weekends. But deep down they wish they had that new Mustang or Motorcycle or trip to Hawaii but they're really too lazy and unmotivated to change. They don't think they have an advantage in life, but also can't see that they're only holding their self back. They might see Barrack Obama as president and even think that black people have more of an advantage in life as they do.

3. They have some other, REAL physical, mental, Health issue that is holding them back. That's a seperate issue although if they really looked at it they would see that they are better off than a minority or woman with the same issues.

That's it.

There's only so many awesome 6 figure jobs out there. Someone's gotta mop the floors. You are completely delusional. If anything, White males are under relentless attack. Jobs should be awarded to the person most capable for the job. Regardless of color. No H1b visas either that gives preferential treatment to foreigners over US citizens. That means no quotas; which are unfair and exclude the best candidates. We've had decades to see the utter failure of affirmative action. If you can't perform the job properly, you don't deserve the job. Your argument is old, worn out, and false.

originally posted by: BIGPoJo
a reply to: Grambler

Everyone keeps claiming that there is this white privledge issue and its a huge problem. I have yet to see any solution to this problem. What do people think while males should do to fix this issue? I am truly curious to know what these socio experts think about a solution to the problem. Reverse discrimination? White genocide? A white tax?

The White genocide is well under way.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

According to gender-studies, social justice and ... conventional academe

That pretty much summed it up for me

originally posted by: sapien82
White privilege does exist for white males because as a white male we don't have to suffer institutionalised racism growing up as a male in a world where governments are inherently racist. Well the British empire was built on racism and slavery and whilst we abolished slavery the racism still exists in many forms.

Non white males born in the UK will suffer racism at some point in their lives either from other citizens or institutions of government such as the police.

Racism can be extremely detrimental to the development of children it serves only to hinder them and devalue them as human beings.

Oh blah blah blah about things from HUNDREDS of years ago.

There is NO SUCH THING AS WHITE PRIVILEGE.

And if blacks in any country want to go to a place where they aren't surrounded by people who supposedly hate them and hold them down, they can easily go to any African country. Yes I said easily. A one way ticket is around $500, and if you can't scrape together $500 for the best decision of your life, then you're not trying.

But wait!!, is it really the best decision of a black persons life to leave the west and strike out in the [everything-is-fair-and-lovely] utopia of the African homeland? If I were black I wouldn't be so fast to book that trip. The US and the UK together have made more black millionaires than the rest of the world combined.

Many famous African Americans have taken pilgrimages to Africa only to be tragically disappointed at the level of corruption, poverty and utter chaos that pervades most African nations and destroys any chance for average African kids to get far in life.

People can keep talking all the nonsense they want about the evil whitey cracker bastards, but the truth is, living in the west, and the USA in particular is the AMAZING OPPORTUNITY IN THE WORLD for a black person.


Neil DeGrasse Tyson,
Oprah Winfrey
Barack Obama
Colin Powell
Eric Holder
Condoleeza Rice
Will Smith
Denzel Washington
James Earl Jones
Morgan Freeman
Samuel L Jackson
Sean Carter (JAY-Z)
Sean Combs (Puff daddy)
Bill Cosby
Tyler Perry
Allen West


^^^ Those people and hundreds of black millionaires, CEOS, company presidents, etc, EARNED IT, but they didn't do it with help from Black Privilege or African countries.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Living in Glasgow man I've seen it first hand , I have mixed race friends and black friends, asian friends , indian / pakistani
etc and there is institutional racism it's alive and well
The police do target minority races in the UK its proven fact !

racial profiling exists whether you want to accept it or not!

No one said anything about them not having the ability or drive to achieve anything in life there as you pointed out many black people or other racial backgrounds who are CEO's etc rich beyond their dreams

but I can guarantee you that each and everyone of the people on your list has suffered institutional racism either directly or indirectly to them or their families !


You must be deluded to think that the US is not institutionally racist , considering it was founded by a racist empire , and exported mass racism in the form of founding a colony on racism alone by killing of indigenous peoples

that racism still exists and is fervent in the US !

keep living your american dream

a reply to: amazing

Thank you for mentioning the "Christian" thing.
I've seen this in action.
In fact over on the *other* forum, I had a long running thread about the "Christian Patriarchist Movement", which obviously explains a lot about the origins of White Male Priviledge and the bastions of society which enforce it.
It upset a lot of people, so I'm no longer a forum member