anti refugee / immigration rallies in Europe organised by right wing parties

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well personally from a UK stand point , we really dont have the infrastructure to support enmass influx of refugees because we barely have recovered from the crash , we have tories in power who have cut benefits so no idea how they plan to support them or where they are going to stay. Or what jobs they are going to work because our government decided to stop investing in creating jobs, sold off all of our national services and are severely impacting on the daily lifes of residents of the UK already , so we will likely struggle to support them in any capacity.

I know in Scotland cultures mix really well , but thats because the Scots are a loving people and we mix well with everyone really I have friends from all different cultural backgrounds.
if cultures have failed to integrate anywhere else its not only one sides fault it requires a two way street.

You ask many relevant questions , I dont know how our governments will manage to support them , I dont know how they will be checked> Why they have decided now , do the Syrians know something is coming their way and they decided to leave before it all kicks off. Are they coming to Europe because they blame our governments for their war torn situation.

Everyone has their concerns as do our governments, what my original point was that I've noticed a large number of people who are nationalist or patriotic posting these protest videos which have been organised, co-opted or promoted by ultra nationalist right wing groups who are fascist in nature.
I only wished to highlight this to my friend and he ignored it completely , they are basically promoting fascist propaganda which is radical and extreme in nature.

How can I be classed as extreme if my view is that we should promote peace and prosperity and stop extremists from promoting hate.

a reply to: Kali74


We have been screwing with the affairs of the middle east since ww2 ended. There have been plenty of democrats in charge in that time. Plenty of blame to be spread for both sides.

a reply to: 727Sky

What is wrong with that? They only want everyone who is not Muslim, dead, orphaned or otherwise dealt with, with such pleasant parlor tricks as martyrs, which allah loves.

Are you a racist? Intolerant of these religiously upstanding citizens of France?

Obviously if you think them wanting you dead is some threat or something, you're a bigot and a racist.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Yes and? Only makes it that much more absurd that the right hates him so much.

And your point that the right wing needs to stop supporting military is pretty invalid when a non right wing president is bombing as well. Your point is false and invalid.

The issue will obviously not be resolved by simply voting left wing politicians as the same thing will happen. I'm pointing out your statement and thinking are false and goes against the facts. I don't expect you to admit there is no difference and that left wingers will bomb too. But that's what the facts say

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: TechniXcality

If the shoe fits...

You are the cobbler and I ain't got any shoes!

Listen to me this is not a right wing left wing issue, this is a conscious and awareness issue, some elements of extremism are undoubtedly infiltrating in this exodus, it's a massive strategic failure to think otherwise. I hate to say it because I genuinely like you, have seen you around through the years have argued and agreed, but I think you feel like the west gets what it 'deserves' in the event of mass extremist attacks. Tell me I'm wrong please tell me I am #en wrong.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: sapien82

It seems very simple to me, if right-wingers are so scared of refugees and migrants they should stop supporting the military and economic policies that create them.

Yes my military service caused a culture that is over a thousand years old to be idiotic....

News flash Kali, most of the Muslim's killed in the last 20 years were killed by..... Muslims not the west or it's soldiers.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Did you not read the article , that ultra nationalist right wing groups are organising, promoting and co opting these nationalist/ patriotic rallies in an attempt to sway people to their extremist views.

What is happening is we are being told extremists are coming to get us from outside the west, but we have a bunch of extremists brewing here at home already. The last lot of European extremists made a grand mess of things more so than any muslims

a reply to: TechniXcality

I'm talking about a different kind of extremism which right wing extremism. While yes I am against Islamic extremists, Right Wing Extremism is also as bad as the other. I agree that we should take a stand against the Islamic extremists, at the same time we should also stop the right wing extremists. Electing Right Wing Extremists is just gonna destroy what we fought for as well.

In fact here in the US, we have Right Wing extremists here in the US calling for a Christian Theocracy and that is as bad as an Islamic Caliphate.

originally posted by: sapien82
I am not against refugees or economic migrants but why is that Europe is being asked to take in all of these people when there are countries which are closer which align more with their political and religious world views who could easily support them.

For example other middle eastern countries which surround Syria.
Surely it makes much more logistical sense and effectively would be more humanitarian for refugees to travel shorter distances to these countries rather than try to make it to Europe.

# knows why they'd want to come here anyway it's always pissing down in Scotland

You mean places like this, with Air conditioned tents sufficient to house 3 million people? Unused and left to waste, while Saudi thumbs their nose and says "keep moving..." ?

Who knows.. but dont be racist. if you say anything that does not show you're willing to move out of your own home and give it away, you're ignorant and need to feel ashamed of yourself.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Very true. The West has been operating under neoliberalism for quite some time, regardless of what party is in control, that is just one of the facts that we need to wake up to and stand against. That doesn't change the fact that it is right-wingers losing their minds over taking in the refugees caused by those neoliberal policies.

Regardless of which party you vote for, you should be asking yourself what is this person (people) going to do out there in the world that could later come back and bite us in the ass.

In the meantime, there's nothing to do right now but accept responsibility for letting it go on for so long... and that means making sure the refugee's get to safety.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I know what you are talking about, and it's logical conclusion is a chicken and the egg idea. Though you may not be aware of what I mean, extremist elements rampant will cause extremist elements in the government to rise as a counter measure and apartheid will ensue destroying everything we have built as a culture and society, do you see my point?

a reply to: johnwick

I'm sorry that you are blind to the causes of those and that you've been brainwashed to think billions of people are evil.

a reply to: Kali74

I honestly think the president needs to put some heavy pressure on the Gulf states to take these refugees. Integration would be so much easier with all the similarities in cultures. It doesn't make any sense to drag thousands of people half way around the world.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well personally from a UK stand point , we really dont have the infrastructure to support enmass influx of refugees because we barely have recovered from the crash , we have tories in power who have cut benefits so no idea how they plan to support them or where they are going to stay. Or what jobs they are going to work because our government decided to stop investing in creating jobs, sold off all of our national services and are severely impacting on the daily lifes of residents of the UK already , so we will likely struggle to support them in any capacity.

I know in Scotland cultures mix really well , but thats because the Scots are a loving people and we mix well with everyone really I have friends from all different cultural backgrounds.
if cultures have failed to integrate anywhere else its not only one sides fault it requires a two way street.

You ask many relevant questions , I dont know how our governments will manage to support them , I dont know how they will be checked> Why they have decided now , do the Syrians know something is coming their way and they decided to leave before it all kicks off. Are they coming to Europe because they blame our governments for their war torn situation.

Everyone has their concerns as do our governments, what my original point was that I've noticed a large number of people who are nationalist or patriotic posting these protest videos which have been organised, co-opted or promoted by ultra nationalist right wing groups who are fascist in nature.
I only wished to highlight this to my friend and he ignored it completely , they are basically promoting fascist propaganda which is radical and extreme in nature.

How can I be classed as extreme if my view is that we should promote peace and prosperity and stop extremists from promoting hate.

And that may be valid. Beyond reading I'm not in Europe and do not know what the real deal is. My guess is since the decisions have been made that people with real concerns outside of fascism or being extremists will be part of the protest as they may see it as there only option to be heard.

They will be labeled haters regardless and anyone with real concerns or to voice one will as well. As far as Nazi salutes, pretty stupid. But the stupid and extremes in any group get the media attention and then everyone associated with it will be deemed as being the same.

It's a very old tacit used by everyone, silence all opposition and there is only one choice left even if it's the wrong one. Don't know if this is the wrong choice for Europe, but they will find out.

a reply to: Bluntone22

It makes sense if you believe the west is inherently evil, and the cause of all disparity in the world..

a reply to: TechniXcality

You are wrong. No one deserves to suffer at the hands of extremists. We didn't deserve 9/11. Osama bin Laden was guilty of the same line of thinking though, that all Americans were evil and guilty of doing wrong to the ME. I'm sure there's some extremists getting in with the refugees but extremism hides among all peoples in all religions in all countries. Closing borders will not make us safer. There's literally nothing anyone can do to protect us from extremism.

ETA: And the attempt to keep us safe has only caused more extremism and more suffering for all of us.

a reply to: sn0rch

Why do the UN and the west not force these nations such as Saudi Arabia to take the refugees if they have the capacity to support them . We should force Saudia Arabia to take them under threat of economic sanction.

It makes much more sense when they are closer and less people will die in the process.

That's just insane

a reply to: Bluntone22

By all logic Saudi Arabia should take in as many as the West does. They are equally responsible. But we can't make them and whether they do or not shouldn't affect whether we do or not.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Bluntone22

Very true. The West has been operating under neoliberalism for quite some time, regardless of what party is in control, that is just one of the facts that we need to wake up to and stand against. That doesn't change the fact that it is right-wingers losing their minds over taking in the refugees caused by those neoliberal policies.

Regardless of which party you vote for, you should be asking yourself what is this person (people) going to do out there in the world that could later come back and bite us in the ass.

In the meantime, there's nothing to do right now but accept responsibility for letting it go on for so long... and that means making sure the refugee's get to safety.

But why should people who took no direct action take responsibility?

Not sure about you Kali, I can say without doubt when in the military I was not in the middle east as far as anyone is concerned, I never gave an order to the military to engage the middle east, I never had a hand in crafting policy towards the middle east, and I was never offered to vote on a referendum as to the actions we should take in the middle east. I am a write in voter and have never supported either party. I have absolutely no responsibility for the issue nor fixing it.

Now if you took action leading to the mess you need to step up and make amends. But I'm guessing most people are in a category with me. That is the problem. Thinking we had some responsibility for the mess so you have determined we are responsible to fix it. It's false, completely false and people get tired and being assigned blame for things they had nothing to do with so they can also be responsible for fixing it. Seriously, it's not only false it's an outright lie.

originally posted by: sapien82
I know in Scotland cultures mix really well , but thats because the Scots are a loving people and we mix well with everyone really I have friends from all different cultural backgrounds.

Incidents of racism towards the English are on the rise in Scotland. Just to point that out! While nationalists are not racist per se, some racists are nationalists.

The problem for the UK is two-fold.

1. There is no room! There is a housing shortage. If immigrants are allowed in then they will "trump" people already waiting for housing. Not to mention existing pressures on schooling and health. This brings me to point...
2. While there is a high-profile campaign to allow more immigrants/refugees in (noting the new leader of the Labour Party, Mr Corbyn is one of those), the majority of the public is against an open-door immigration policy. It's a highly divisive issue and detrimental to social cohesion. People just don't want more immigrants.