Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis Found in Contempt of Court - Jail

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I'm of the thinking that it's more about the potential for a monetary pay out than it is about their rights. Do you drive five to ten miles to the next country to exorcise your right, or do you wait a while, sue the clerk, and get your wedding/honeymoon paid for?

I think it's the same reason for the selected targeting of Christian establishments.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Did I miss something? Why didn't they just fire her from her job the first time she refused to issue marriage licenses? The last time I checked, if you refuse to do your job duties, that's grounds for dismissal!

Because she's an elected official. Courts don't have the power to remove a person from elected office, the country would look much different if they could. That power rests with the state legislature which isn't currently in session.

For everyone screaming about how she broke the law, I will just put this right here.....

In most states these things are just misdemeanors... in Kentucky it is a felony.

I think this could get very interesting. And before anyone says no one gets charged for this anymore... here is a law firm in Kentucky that can help anyone who wants to register their crimes with the clerks...

From the site...

The penalty in Kentucky for sodomy is severe. Sodomy 1st degree is a Class B felony unless the victim is under 12 or receives a serious physical injury in which case it is a Class A felony. A Class B felony is a prison sentence of at least 10 but not more than 20 years. A Class A felony is a prison sentence of at least 20 but not more than 50 years or for life.

Deviate sexual intercourse means any act of sexual gratification involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another. It also means penetration of the anus of one person by a foreign object manipulated by another person.

Source

So... now the clerk didn't have a leg to stand on? All of you calling for people to be jailed might want to abandon the thread now.

Any debate should be argued from any of the opposing sides, whether the one debating supports the argument or not. Never assume my affiliation, you will be wrong 9 times out of 10.

Release the lawyers!

a reply to: EternalSolace

I go two blocks down the street and I pass a church, go a few more blocks and there's two more, a couple more blocks and I find another, then another, then another. in all I think I pass maybe 15-20 churches everyday in a 15 minute drive...

that isn't intolerance!
what isn't being tolerated is the idea that religion gives a person free license to discriminate.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I'm of the thinking that it's more about the potential for a monetary pay out than it is about their rights. Do you drive five to ten miles to the next country to exorcise your right, or do you wait a while, sue the clerk, and get your wedding/honeymoon paid for?

I think it's the same reason for the selected targeting of Christian establishments.

There will be no monetary payouts here. They would have to prove there are damages, and there are no damages. The state itself is even trying to comply, the whole thing is just being mucked up by a woman at the county level. Two weeks from now all of these people will have their marriage certificates and life will go on as usual.

a reply to: Volund

You obviously didn't read all of the site you linked. The only type of sodomy addressed by the law in Kentucky that doesn't specify lack of consent is fourth degree sodomy which according to your link remains on the books but was ruled unconstitutional by the Kentucky supreme court in 1992.

Regardless, it's ironic that you keep bringing up Nazi Germany but are apparently championing laws dictating what people can do in bed in the privacy of their homes.

a reply to: Volund

She's not being asked to pass out Sodomy Licenses though is she?? Nope, Marriage Licenses which are perfectly legal.

Still don't see where you have a leg to stand on but I find your dedication thrilling.

originally posted by: DelMarvel
a reply to: Volund

You obviously didn't read all of the site you linked. The only type of sodomy addressed by the law in Kentucky that doesn't specify lack of consent is fourth degree sodomy which according to your link remains on the books but was ruled unconstitutional by the Kentucky supreme court in 1992.

Regardless, it's ironic that you keep bringing up Nazi Germany but are apparently championing laws dictating what people can do in bed in the privacy of their homes.

oh well. It is still on the books and people are still accused.

It's been fun, but since this really doesn't effect me at all, I will move on. At least I am capable of seeing multiple sides and outcomes and points of view and am bold enough to stand up for people when other belittle them. I say let everyone pay for more court fees, call it marriage, divorce, whatever.

Drink up!

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Volund

She's not being asked to pass out Sodomy Licenses though is she?? Nope, Marriage Licenses which are perfectly legal.

Still don't see where you have a leg to stand on but I find your dedication thrilling.

Thank you

PLEASE, PLEASE, pay me $80,000 a year to be a $10/hour clerk. You can marry your dog, Spot, if you want to! Gah, government is such a waste of money.
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I'm of the thinking that it's more about the potential for a monetary pay out than it is about their rights. Do you drive five to ten miles to the next country to exorcise your right, or do you wait a while, sue the clerk, and get your wedding/honeymoon paid for?

I think it's the same reason for the selected targeting of Christian establishments.

What the? You don't have to drive even 1 foot farther to get a service you are already legally supposed to receive in your own county or town or village. That is America. You seem to think that 'inconvenient' people to you should have to drive to another county. THEY DON'T. I saw nothing about suing, but after all the people went through to get guaranteed services they pay the person in their taxes to perform--- and then pay another fee for a license---they SHOULD SUE.

originally posted by: Volund
For everyone screaming about how she broke the law, I will just put this right here.....

In most states these things are just misdemeanors... in Kentucky it is a felony.

I think this could get very interesting. And before anyone says no one gets charged for this anymore... here is a law firm in Kentucky that can help anyone who wants to register their crimes with the clerks...

From the site...

The penalty in Kentucky for sodomy is severe. Sodomy 1st degree is a Class B felony unless the victim is under 12 or receives a serious physical injury in which case it is a Class A felony. A Class B felony is a prison sentence of at least 10 but not more than 20 years. A Class A felony is a prison sentence of at least 20 but not more than 50 years or for life.

Deviate sexual intercourse means any act of sexual gratification involving the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another. It also means penetration of the anus of one person by a foreign object manipulated by another person.

Source

So... now the clerk didn't have a leg to stand on? All of you calling for people to be jailed might want to abandon the thread now.

Any debate should be argued from any of the opposing sides, whether the one debating supports the argument or not. Never assume my affiliation, you will be wrong 9 times out of 10.

Release the lawyers!

She doesn't have a leg to stand on. You don't know how to read the law. I am thinking a lot of conservatives and liberals alike will not enjoy your posts. It is you that needs to just cut it out.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
While I agree with the decision, this "feels" like another manufactured spectacle... along the links of the bakery shop that wouldn't make a wedding cake.

Marriage Licenses Frequently Asked Questions

The parties may go to any county in Kentucky to get a marriage license as long as both are 18 years of age or older. Marriage licenses may be used in any Kentucky county and cannot be used anywhere but in Kentucky. Both must be present to obtain a license.

Why didn't the couples just avoid the stress and get their license in another county? If marriage is the intended goal, and these things have a time limit, they should just go to the next county.

Like I just answered someone else, and I am not fond of arguing with you. But.. people pay taxes in the place in which they live. They should not have to drive ONE FOOT further than the place that is supposed to perform the service,.

I am sort of surprised at you. Even if you feel it was a press grab, that was difficult to read from you.

I thought this video was a funny spoof on the subject.. done by an ex Big Brother contestant I think..(reality?)
Thought it was funny!

(NSFW)

a reply to: dawnstar

I would have moved city hall to make sure I married my bride... if that's what it took.

I sympathise with the couples looking to get a license... but if I was denied, my urgency would be getting the damn license elsewhere, not making a point. My love first, all else secondary.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: AMPTAH

There was no religious test performed.

Of course there was. Her faith is being tested. Does she really believe in the things of her faith?
Or are those things in her professed religion, just empty meaningless statements?

The judge has NO SAY over her beliefs, but he does have a say if she breaks the law, which she did.

Which law? The supreme law of the land grants her freedom of religion. A lesser law just introduced
requires her office to act against the principles of her religion. Requiring her to follow the letter of
the latter law, is denying her the rights granted under the former, and more supreme law.

She doesn't marry ANYONE, she simply gives them a license.

She is being ordered to participate in an unholy act, to sanction behavior that her religion condemns
as an abomination, and to put her name and signatory to the deed.

There is no religious test.

If you love Jesus, you can't work here. Find another country.

Now, why doesn't the government solve this problem a different way. Hire a gay person to marry gays, and let the people uphold their religious beliefs, each according to his own conscience. They hire a woman to strip search women, and let the men strip search men. Why doesn't the government order the women to be strip searched by men, and men to be strip searched by women? They accommodate people's sensitivities in other areas, why not here in the issue of marriage?

Jail is just the judge being ignorant.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: dawnstar
but well she was just obeying what the bible said when she stoned the kid, how was that wrong??

or are we picking and chosing what we wish to believe that the bible says?

but I of agree with EternalSolace. it wouldn't have hurt to have the legislators brought in to resolve this.

Not picking and choosing anything. There are two parts to the Bible. The Old Testament and the New Testament. The "New" Testament is a revision of the Old one, and the Bible started anew. Jesus was the "new" covenant,what you speak of is in the Old Testament.

Jesus said that the laws of Moses was to be followed as well.

That's cool, I am going to go out on a limb here and say Moses, most likley never stoned anyone in the face...or God would not have chosen him. That would be just another common thug.

That's quite a limb that you're out on there. Moses was a murderer and a fugitive. He murdered an Egyptian guard.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

And I'm sure you would have loved having that seperate water fountain too.

After all, you were really thirsty. Right?

This is excellent news!
I really hope this acts as a warning/ deterrent/reminder for anyone thinking of trying the same ignorant, bigoted, illegal crap.
I'm proud to be an American right now - well at least on this issue.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: dawnstar

I would have moved city hall to make sure I married my bride... if that's what it took.

I sympathise with the couples looking to get a license... but if I was denied, my urgency would be getting the damn license elsewhere, not making a point. My love first, all else secondary.

Perhaps these people thought of the bigger picture, perhaps they were more selfless.
Without people like this throughout the ages, we wouldn't have the freedoms and rights we do.