"74 per cent of Chinese think they would win in a war with the US military [NOW]"

a reply to: PresidentHeston

in case you didn't see the post i was replying to (which will answer your question):

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Obviously we can throw it into wild supposition. But since that is the data we have at our disposal, barring the entry of any new data, i see no reason to being wild supposition.

Mostly because aliens. LOL

a reply to: GodEmperor

Feel free to enlighten us then.

originally posted by: PresidentHeston

originally posted by: Nickn3
Everyone would like to say my country can whip your country. In the case of the U.S. And China I would have to say US by 30%. Proven Navy, proven Nucs, proven cyber warfare.

You either did not read the transcript / listen to the interview proved or you're being deliberately obtuse through blinkered jingoism. The very point is: the U.S. has not engaged in air-to-air or sea-to-sea (or sub-to-sub) or space-to-space combat in two score and ten decades!

That is to say, there is no yardstick to measure how the U.S. (and its allies) would perform against commensurate adversaries in modern day, computer-driven combat. The hubris you display is predicated upon WWII era suppositions and systematic indoctrination of military culture veneration; not assayable facts.

This is all to say nothing of the red herring known aas EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) warfare and how that could render any possible technological advantage the U.S. may still have, null. This is no fanciful elephant in the room, either, as the U.S. congress have conducted a commission into the U.S. mainland's vulnerability to such an attack...

You really need to study stuff yourself instead of that you are currently using. The US military has hardened equipment againt EMP attack. They can boot right back up after a EMP pulse almost all th etime if the systems are in correct working oorder. Yeah believe th ehype that a EMP will disable them if you want but testing siggest otherwise. Also
Did you know older cars will still run after a EMP? its been tested.
Sure they may knock out the civie grid and power but not the militarys. ANyone who try to sell you that EMP trumps all is a liar.

a reply to: yuppa

THAT'S why I have a 63 Scout,it has 2 fuel tanks and uses an older ignition system.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: yuppa

THAT'S why I have a 63 Scout,it has 2 fuel tanks and uses an older ignition system.

Well i f you have experience hot rodding you can also rig up a modern car to use a old style carb system or just get you a car and put it in a emp proof bunker with everything else you will need. And yeah the oldest are the best. I hear alot o f mil vehicles these days(cars and trucks,jeeps) are all dual system incase of a EMP attack that frys the 1st layer of protection.

To be honest most cars are already safe. especially since they are all insulated from electricity by your tires. Power plants need to ground all their controls and generators though. that will be a huge help.

originally posted by: yuppa
To be honest most cars are already safe. especially since they are all insulated from electricity by your tires. Power plants need to ground all their controls and generators though. that will be a huge help.

No, most modern cars are not safe. The car's tires actually make the EMP more effective, as the car can't unload the charge the EMP produces.

As for making a modern car EMP proof...park it where ever you want. Pull out the ECU(s) and the fuses, and walk away. Car is fully protected. Once the ECU(s) and fuses are pulled, there is no longer enough continuous wiring and circuitry for an EMP to cause any significant damage.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: yuppa
To be honest most cars are already safe. especially since they are all insulated from electricity by your tires. Power plants need to ground all their controls and generators though. that will be a huge help.

No, most modern cars are not safe. The car's tires actually make the EMP more effective, as the car can't unload the charge the EMP produces.

As for making a modern car EMP proof...park it where ever you want. Pull out the ECU(s) and the fuses, and walk away. Car is fully protected. Once the ECU(s) and fuses are pulled, there is no longer enough continuous wiring and circuitry for an EMP to cause any significant damage.

Testing and science seem to prove you wrong. you have read the report on EMP vs car survival right? if a 1 million wat power line laying on your car for over a few minutes dont fry your cars electrical system a EMP wont. Now still just in case a garage made out of Aluminum with a grounding pole sunk into the earth thats even better.

originally posted by: yuppa
Testing and science seem to prove you wrong. you have read the report on EMP vs car survival right? if a 1 million wat power line laying on your car for over a few minutes dont fry your cars electrical system a EMP wont. Now still just in case a garage made out of Aluminum with a grounding pole sunk into the earth thats even better.

So, everybody drives cars manufactured between 1986 and 2002? Because that is what was tested. And, an extremely limited number of models to boot.

The 2 assumptions that have been made (in regards to how more modern vehicles would react) are grossly incorrect.

Assumption One: That a military EMP will be confined to a maximum value of 50kv/m with an average value in the range of 25-30kv/m...which was the anticipated public value in 1994. That would be akin to assuming that a bullet proof vest will stop a high caliber weapon...it is bulletproof...right? The devil is always in the details.

Assumption Two: That a vehicles structure will act as a faraday cage, preventing the majority of the EMP from getting to the elctronics, let alone affecting them. Which would be awesome...if more modern vehicles weren't using far less metal in their construction. Add to that that a very new car will only have about 10 times the amount of wiring to act as an antenna...So, less protection, and a bigger antenna to receive the EMP's pulse. Yay!

As for a 1 million watt power line laying on a car...it is irrelevant. If EMP pulses worked the same as direct electrical transmission, it would be relevant, but they don't.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

How is Global Firepower wild supposition?

And why'd you alien me? Hmmm?

originally posted by: Flatfish
I guess that just means that 74% of Chinese people haven't heard of "Mutally Assured Destruction" or it's implications.

The ear of the automaton communist does not "hear", nor does it care. The ideology revolves around the sacrifice of many for a perceived greater good. The communist does not question, it does not have a sense of individual worth and there is no price the inculcated communist will not pay.

Ideology is a hell of a drug. Just ask the victims of the fire bombing of Tokyo.

originally posted by: JBRiddle
A war with China would not be with out its risks to the United States.

Indeed. In fact, a nuke detonated in the ionosphere above the U.S. mainland might even spell the very end of the nation.

originally posted by: Flesh699
No one could win a war with the US. There's too many guns, it'd be similar to the Mid East.

Unfortunately for the Yosemite Sams putting fundamentalist faith in their precious guns, most of modern day warfare is computer-controller, does not use gun powder and we're talking about a commensurate enemy here -- not goat herders and barbarian cliques with AK-47's... which themselves seem beyond the U.S.'s $600 billion-dollar p.a. tax-payer contributions to war.

That, and I doubt the Chinese will be distracted, back turned, doing T.V. interviews; zombified, watching comic book schlock; attending kindergartens or high schools et al. when they are engaged. You know... in scenarios where guns are actually effective.

originally posted by: Peeple
Why is it inevitable?

Because if the Chinese want war, you will have war. The world's economic dependence on said nation ensures thus.

originally posted by: MrSpad
First why would the US and China go to war? China and the US would not attack each other directly because they have no reason to.

Military strategy analysts and geopolitical experts do not ask question and then immediately answer them themselves, as this would be a waste of precious time in circular argumentation.

Ipso facto, you're likely none of the above and therefore lack the expertise to comprehend the intricacies of the geopolitical, historical and nationalistic motivations of nations. Especially Asian nations, whom the West seem doomed to forever measure through a Western prism and thereby misinterpret.

originally posted by: yuppa
You really need to study stuff yourself instead of that you are currently using. The US military has hardened equipment againt EMP attack.

Hmmm... Really? Seems the U.S. government might not be as confident as your jingoism fuels you to be...

Perhaps you're privy to something they're not? Some inside information of fantastical alien tech, perhaps...?

Did you know older cars will still run after a EMP? its been tested.

So can rickshaws...

Good luck with your life.

edit on 27-8-2015 by PresidentHeston because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: peck420
As for making a modern car EMP proof...park it where ever you want. Pull out the ECU(s) and the fuses, and walk away. Car is fully protected. Once the ECU(s) and fuses are pulled, there is no longer enough continuous wiring and circuitry for an EMP to cause any significant damage.

Fundamentally incorrect.

Electrical circuitry does not need to be in some particular configuration to be affected by Electro-Magnetic Pulse. The EMP occurs in three(3) waves (*please research) and induces electrical flow on all levels of electrically conductive devices through a process known as 'induction' (think: how a Bluetooth charging pad works). From power lines to transistors inside microchips -- all shall be punishëd in an EMP attack.

It is this that makes this type of attack so lethal and why the military are so concerned about its threat -- the proof of the pudding in the tasting. If it were a simple matter of "unplugging" to remain safe, EMP would not have warranted a congressional investigation into its threat.

originally posted by: peck420
So, everybody drives cars manufactured between 1986 and 2002?

The 'La Risitas response' is the only one which can be reasonably proffered in the face of unintelligible propositions.

> ATS

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: PresidentHeston

just because China has stolen blueprints for advanced US tech doesn't mean they have the ability to manufacture it. Secondly it doesn't mean they have the right material to manufacture it.

The blueprints for a 5th generation US fighter are worthless if you cant manufacture the correct parts with the correct material.

We can probably debunk this, but even so, it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

For years, everyone has warned that counterfeit microchips made in China and installed on American military hardware could contain viruses or secret backdoors granting the Chinese military cyber access to U.S. weapons systems. These warnings/predictions recently expanded beyond counterfeit parts, now we’re worried that any Chinese-made components could be infected. The problem was that until this week, these warnings were educated guesses and theories. Well, a scientist at Cambridge University in the United Kingdom claims to have developed a software program proving that China — and anyone else — can, and is, installing cyber backdoors on some of the world’s most secure, “military grade” microchips.

Specifically, the American-designed, Chinese-made Actel/Microsemi ProASIC3 A3P250 — commonly known as the PA3 — chip was found by Cambridge researcher, Sergei Skorobogatov, to have a backdoor, or trojan, deliberately built into it. The PA3 is what’s called a Field Reprogrammable Gate Array (FRGA); an almost blank slate of a microchip that can be programmed by its owner to perform a variety of tasks.

Most alarming is that the PA3 is considered to be one of the “most impenetrable” designs on the market. The chip is used in military “weapons, guidance, flight control, networking and communications” hardware, according to Skorobogatov’s report on his findings that was published last weekend. The PA3 is also used in civilian “nuclear power plants, power distribution, aerospace, aviation, public transport and automotive products,” according to Skorobogatov.
[Source]

Some of it they stole and some of it was handed to them by greedy MIC firms looking to save a buck to shove more bucks into their own bank accounts.

originally posted by: PresidentHeston

originally posted by: MrSpad
First why would the US and China go to war? China and the US would not attack each other directly because they have no reason to.

Military strategy analysts and geopolitical experts do not ask question and then immediately answer them themselves, as this would be a waste of precious time in circular argumentation.

Ipso facto, you're likely none of the above and therefore lack the expertise to comprehend the intricacies of the geopolitical, historical and nationalistic motivations of nations. Especially Asian nations, whom the West seem doomed to forever measure through a Western prism and thereby misinterpret.

The complete lack of logic in this statement is staggering. How about this, I will try and keep this simple. We know the US has no interested in attacking China. How do we know this? The US goes out of its way to ovoid starting a conflict while at the same time making it clear to China aggression against other Asian states will not be allowed to go unchecked. The US keeps Taiwan armed just enough to keep China from being able to invade it. What the US does not do is arm Taiwan to such and extent that it would get aggressive with China. If the US wanted a war with China we would see a flood of advanced weapons and advisers flooding into Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam and Myanmar which would in short time lead to Chinese forces in the South China Sea being attacked by those newly armed nations and war breaking out. Thus far the US has in conjunction with India and Japan moved only make sure any move against other Asians states would end with China losing far more than they would gain. So the US is not planning to attack China.

Perhaps, China is planning to attack the US? No. And how do we know this? Does require some great geopolitical understanding of China's global ambitions? Perhaps a study on when China has used military force in the past? No and no. You simply have to look at how China has designed its armed forces. China has almost no ability to project power. Why is this important? Because the US is a global power. It does not have to be near China to engage China. It could cut off China's sea lanes far from its shores where it has zero ability to do anything about it. China has armed forces that have been designed to operate within its region and against regional foes. It's large slow moving army is not designed to face mobile western forces it destined to face other large slow moving forces. China could change this, if its focus was a conflict with the US.

That it has not tells us the same thing we have learned from US actions. That both powers while concerned about a possible conflict between the two do not see it likely enough to commit to actions that would give them better odds while at the same time inflaming tensions. This is what logic would tell us. If we not wasting time with EMP weapons nonsense.

originally posted by: PresidentHeston

originally posted by: yuppa
You really need to study stuff yourself instead of that you are currently using. The US military has hardened equipment againt EMP attack.

Hmmm... Really? Seems the U.S. government might not be as confident as your jingoism fuels you to be...

Perhaps you're privy to something they're not? Some inside information of fantastical alien tech, perhaps...?

Did you know older cars will still run after a EMP? its been tested.

So can rickshaws...

Good luck with your life.

You do understand that the "government labs" always make things sound worse to get more funding correct? And really a EMP isnt as bad as ya making it out to be either. Most military hardware has reduncies built in to deal with such things,and really removing fuses in effect breaking circuits also greatly reduces th epossibility of a EMP frying said machine its hooked to. But most EMP th emilitary and CIvilian with a older car will be fine. And a EMP does not "stack up damage" so more than one EMP falls flat after the initial one i f its within a few hours.