Ex Subway spokesman Jared Fogle in court today for child porn charges

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

No worries. It's a little ambiguously worded and I can totally see how you got what you did. When I read your reply my first thought was "oh crap I read that WAAAAY wrong!" Which is still possible of course.

I think it's an interesting question, though. A few decades ago, gays were beaten, attacked, locked up, run out of town, had to hide their sexuality, etc (not opening the debate as to whether that still happens, of course it does but not as much as it used to). Homosexuality was thought of as a disease of the mind. Stuff like that. But now it's accepted by society in general. Could society ever get to that point with people who have these other taboo sexual proclivities?

But I think that's a whooooole other thread, too.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

No worries. It's a little ambiguously worded and I can totally see how you got what you did. When I read your reply my first thought was "oh crap I read that WAAAAY wrong!" Which is still possible of course.

I think it's an interesting question, though. A few decades ago, gays were beaten, attacked, locked up, run out of town, had to hide their sexuality, etc (not opening the debate as to whether that still happens, of course it does but not as much as it used to). Homosexuality was thought of as a disease of the mind. Stuff like that. But now it's accepted by society in general. Could society ever get to that point with people who have these other taboo sexual proclivities?

But I think that's a whooooole other thread, too.

I guess that's where I missed it....I would compare what you are speaking about above to like the witch hunt or something of that nature, but not child fetishes....But I guess my mind won't even dig deep enough to consider it...

I really have more faith in humanity than that but what do I know??

I don't know if I would go so far as to say "society in general" but I will say it is legal.....Maybe in 20 years that statement will be more accurate, but I hope we don't or should I say wouldn't do that to our children....Things of this nature can really hurt the mentality of a young mind...

a reply to: headb

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that being gay doesn't harm anyone, and that being a pedophile does harm someone?

Just spitballin' for you normals.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: headb

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that being gay doesn't harm anyone, and that being a pedophile does harm someone?

Just spitballin' for you normals.

You normals....I am still laughing from his response in saying that....

You summed it up rather nicely though!

a reply to: Shamrock6

I want you to think about it for just a second: do you really think that abusing and raping children, not to mention filming such, is really just a "another taboo sexual proclivity"?

I'm pretty sure you've misspoken yourself here, and I just want you to think about it.

NOTHING about what these people have done has anything to do with a sexual orientation nor even a paraphilia.

This is the repeated and malicious ACT of abusing children in the terms of THOUSANDS of instances.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Agreed. The way I see it, children aren't mature enough or old enough to know when they are being exploited. Children are also still growing/maturing and their childhood plays a big part in who they will be as adults.

There is a big difference between two grown men who consent to engage in a relationship and an adult and small child. Children place a lot of trust in adults, and having that trust abused can really harm them for life.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Gryphon66

Agreed. The way I see it, children aren't mature enough or old enough to know when they are being exploited. Children are also still growing/maturing and their childhood plays a big part in who they will be as adults.

There is a big difference between two grown men who consent to engage in a relationship and an adult and small child. Children place a lot of trust in adults, and having that trust abused can really harm them for life.

We on a roll brother!

I said your last line in another post on this thread! Who woulda' thunk?? Thanks Gryphon66, was trying to be gentle in my replies to not cause another fight! I am in enough of them already!

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I don't mind fights when there's a reason.

Here, the matter is so clear its ... well, obvious.

There is no excuse for child abuse for any reason, mental illness, etc. not withstanding.

I understand completely many of the very visceral reactions in this thread, even though a part of me would wish that we not lower ourselves to the level of these (censored per T&C).

In this case, my "bleedin' heart" can go take a hike.

I don't like seeing people draw a link between kink and rape. Sexual freedom is clearly the polar opposite of rape and one will not lead to the other. Pedophilia is rape because a "yes" is meaningless if you cannot understand what you are saying yes to.

That in and of itself- the venturing into adult situations unprepared- is just a matter of pulling children back from things they aren't ready for. Underage gambling is a good analogy to underage sex in this sense. If two teens are gambling, you stop them and you leave it at that.

But if one is more knowing pressures, tricks and hustles the other? If it's an adult running a casino that caters to highschool kids as a business? If he gets off on raising the stakes higher than the kid can pay and playing the loan shark when he wins to wield power and violence over somebody weaker? Hell even if it's just gambling I think that last one should be a capital crime on the first offense.

I don't think you'll ever see a sexual freedom movement that is calling for LESS understanding and MORE exploitation for themselves, and if it happened I don't think ANY serious civil rights organization could join ranks with them in good conscience, so that slippery slope does not exist, no matter how liberal we get. 16 might become the age some day. Oldschool ownership relationships might make a comeback through BDSM. Prostitution might be legalized. The world might get KINKY AS HELL...

HOWEVER I don't think there's any turning back from our belief in self determination, and what Jared did would not pass muster even in such a kinky future because at this time there is no preparation or coming of age or legal protection that would allow a minor to make an informed choice to start a safe and equitable prostitution career.

There's a big difference between doing something in a past or future society that prepares for it and includes it in its system of morals and legal protections and accepted means of living, and doing it today in secret for less than a days minimum wage in a society overrun with exploitation and disease because somebody else arranged it. I can't think of any historical example outside of militaristic societies in campaigns of rape/genocide where it was considered acceptable to deprive someone of their life so that you can use them then toss them aside- we've pretty much always believed that a woman has a right to whatever is considered a normal life of the time and that interfering with that carries a code of conduct and a responsibility to her, even if that has often been expressed in a pretty chauvanistic way. My point again being, no way, we just couldn't arrive at a society where acceptance of sex equals acceptance of exploiting minors.

a reply to: The Vagabond

Extraordinarily well stated.

Child abuse, indeed, is not a matter of "kink" at any level.

Another thought occurs to me- a prostitution/pornography ring is a textbook example of a racket, and ought to be prosecuted as such. Every involved party should be responsible for every offense against every victim. Photos should be treated as a currency item for these circles which would mean sharing in them makes one liable for every act that went into creating and distributing and hiding them.

A sentence of 5-11 months per victim might be light but understandable when it adds up 12 years total IF we were only talking about consensual statutory rape over 16 absent any abuse or prostitution... And prostitution itself a lot of people could equivocate on depending on circumstance if it were separate from the whole statutory rape thing...
But it's appropriate when you have those together, plus the request for 14 and the pics of even younger, and the conspiracy and travel... Each separate offense, including those done on your behalf by a pimp, should be considered and tallied on to your sentence.
If a minor was ever flat out no means no raped, drugged, hurt, threatened, kidnapped, whatever else in connection with providing Jared with pics and sexual options thru a network of people who shared and traded in financial and sexual benefits of exploitation, and that isn't being reflected in this case because it happened down stream, then 12 years isn't just very light, it would be a sick joke at the expense of both children and justice.

I often feel like many people employed by the court as well as Child Protective Services and civil right's worker's don't really have the best interest of the minor's they represent and try to defend. A sad irony in the administration of representing children in the foster care system for example surprisingly lack a conscience. The judicial system is ryfe with overarching tones of discipline for young suspects, and people of status/wealth/money are often coddled by the court. The whole thing disgusts me.

Well first these people are sick, and should not only get years for the acts they commit but years for being just plain stupid in these kids DO grow up and DO come forward. Ask Bill Cosby if a person's sick past doesn't come back to haunt them.

originally posted by: Mousygretchen
The judicial system is ryfe with overarching tones of discipline for young suspects, and people of status/wealth/money are often coddled by the court. The whole thing disgusts me.

A big part of the judicial system is control though money, and so rich people are not bothered by something that can devastate another people.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I really hope that POS Fogle gets the maximum sentence (20 years) for one thee worst crimes a human can commit in this world. In fact, I believe it is thee worst crime a human can commit in this world anytime a child is harmed because of sexual and physical abuse.

I have a question: How much was his bail set at?

For now, he is being placed on home detention with GPS monitoring and is not in jail. The date of his next court appearance has not been set, and the government, which said its investigation is ongoing, reserves the right to present additional evidence when Jared Fogle is sentenced.

Also, was his bail higher than Sandra Bland's 500 000$ bail for resisting arrest that resulted from her failing to out a cigarette upon the officer's request...?

Just curious, that is all.

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
Oh, since the ancient greeks did this then we should as well...

Why even post this nonsense? Hey we are sacrificing people to make it rain in Cali next Tuesday....We did it thousands of years ago...

Troll

Since the ancient Jews believed in a magical man of conspicuous inaction who floats in the clouds and collects penile prepuce, then we should as well... ♥

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Oh yeah...he should get big-time. I think he went that route so that any sordid details wont come out in a trial. Prob. kinky-crazy stuff.

Too bad. I still like subway though. Especially their Buffalo Chicken and Pastrami Melt.