Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

why not just say yes or no instead of crying faux outrage that someone has spotted an indication of your real attitude??

You are right. After reading my comment again. I did come across as a bit of an @shole. So I apologize as that was not my intention.

a reply to: LDragonFire

That price is was just an example and as I stated it was arbitrary.

a reply to: Aazadan

Because they want to FORCE us into the same old 1950's paradigm.

Slow to change.

a reply to: Aazadan

Again, the prices is insignificant, put in what you like for todays prices

$x for a Gallon of milk today

$x an hr wage for the middle class employee. [x% of their hourly income]

$x an hr wage for the minimum employee. [x% of their hourly income]

After the minimum wage increase what do you envision that will happen

$y for a Gallon of milk today

$y an hr wage for the middle class employee. [y% of their hourly income]

$y an hr wage for the minimum employee. [y% of their hourly income]

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Aazadan

Again, the prices is insignificant, put in what you like for todays prices

Fortunately I didn't answer in terms of price. I answered in terms of percent of wealth.

After the minimum wage increase what do you envision that will happen

$y an hr wage for the middle class employee. [y% of their hourly income]

$y an hr wage for the minimum employee. [y% of their hourly income]

The minimum wage employee gets to buy the product for fewer minutes worked
The middle class employee get to buy the product for more minutes worked

a reply to: Aazadan

Look We don't want 75 million people making more money that's bad for the economy.

Simple.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

That overly simplistic statement implies that all service industry sectors operate on the same gross margin parameters, which they certainly do not.

You know that is a really lame objection. lol's

While you claim my statement implies:

statement implies that all service industry sectors operate on the same gross margin parameters

What is a gross margin parameter?

If your talking profits, you seem to forget the increase of the minimum wage will be putting cash into the economy, it's not money hoarded in a tax free offshore account.

So if your mad about everyone at the bottom being able to make what's still relatively nothing in this country, still squeezing pennies,

Why don't you go back to school and get trained on something that pays better and negotiate for a raise at your job or quit?

Why don't you do what your saying everyone else should be doing or is it simply not that easy?

Sure as hell seems to me that these people are doing a damn good job of negotiating for more money already.

a reply to: AlaskanDad
Yeah but what about my passive investment?

The only reason I want to own one of these garbage business is so I don't actually have to do any work and make an extra 50k a year rather than get involved into a business that's artistic and creative tha requires work and effort?

What about me though?

I'll have to spend a few extra dollars in order for people to live a decent life?

What about me?

These losers will make closer to what I make so I'll feel less valuable?

What about me Alaskandad?

a reply to: Aazadan

The minimum wage employee gets to buy the product for fewer minutes worked

So you think that the business will only raise their prices to cover the increase of the hourly wage?

I can tell you that is not likely. Typically they add a little extra and take advantage of the situation. LIke they say never let a crisis go to waste. Seldom unless its a very aggressive global online market will a business solely raise their prices to cover only their operating cost without adding a little extra .

The likely scenario is that they will cover their cost and add a little extra for bumps down the road.

The middle class employee get to buy the product for more minutes worked

That I agree with

a reply to: interupt42

Based on your post above what's the problem im not understanding it

originally posted by: interupt42
So you think that the business will only raise their prices to cover the increase of the hourly wage?

I can tell you that is not likely. Typically they add a little extra and take advantage of the situation. LIke they say never let a crisis go to waste. Seldom unless its a very aggressive global online market will a business solely raise their prices to cover only their operating cost without adding a little extra .

Is it your assertion that a decrease in the minimum wage would induce the opposite effect and that employers would reduce wages across the board, and correspondingly reduce prices, and then not pocket something extra?

Or, is it your argument that the only winning move is not to play because a greater slice will be taken as profit no matter how you adjust things?

I would argue that you're incorrect because competition puts a cap on how large a businesses profit margins can be. If two businesses each face a wage increase, and one uses a 33% jump in the cost of labor to justify a 50% increase in prices, while the other uses the 33% jump to increase costs 25% (since wages:price aren't a 1:1 ratio) the one who now has a much lower price will see a greater share of business.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Mugly

Your employer knows you are worth more than minimum wage, being it's a skilled trade it will be much harder to train new employees than raise your wages. I think everyone that is for the $15 min wage wants to see all working class wages increase.


Could you really go from 14hr days at your current job to a $15 an hr 40 hr week at Jack in the box?

i have not done 14's in a bit but to answer, no. i couldnt.
i have a pretty good spot though. i spend about half my day in my office and the other half in the foundry and when i am out there it is in little stretches.
i think a lot of guys would be out the door in a second if they could make 15 flipping burgers.

all they do is bitch. all the time. about everything.
if they are not bitching cause it is hot then they are bitching at the hours. then they bitch cause this company is strict on cell phones. they cant check their facebook or shoot a text. then they bitch cause they have to walk across the street to smoke and can only do that 2 times in a day.

pretty sure most fast food joints dont have it locked down like that.
if they could make 15 and smoke a bunch of times and check their phone all day then yeah, i think they would be out the door.

i do agree with the top part and i do think wages across the trades would increase as well. in the end it would be a win for the tradesman as well but i dont think it would happen over night.
just telling the truth in that i would be quite irked to say the least if all of a sudden john q 16 year old at his first job dumping fries was making only a few dollars less than me, doing what i do.
yeah, that would bother me.

so much for earning it.
instead of gaining skills and/or getting a better job 'they' are just gonna throw 100%(ish) more money to do the same exact jobs....

a reply to: Mugly

pretty sure most fast food joints dont have it locked down like that.
if they could make 15 and smoke a bunch of times and check their phone all day then yeah, i think they would be out the door.

You think so? Whens the last time you saw a Mcdonald's employee just sitting around outside smoking cigarettes and playing with there phone?

Every time I go there to get myself a grand Angus burger... all I ever see is people battling away doing relentlessly repetitive tasks, standing over a hot grill. Or people at the counter constantly getting verbally abused and talked down to by obese arrogant morons.

I guess the grass always seems greener on the other side though.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
You know that is a really lame objection. lol's

While you claim my statement implies:

There is nothing lame about it, all service industry sectors do not operate the same. That is like claiming that all manufacturing secotrs operate the same.

What is a gross margin parameter?

The average margin percent that the industry in question needs to generate to remain profitable in its particular sector.

If your talking profits, you seem to forget the increase of the minimum wage will be putting cash into the economy, it's not money hoarded in a tax free offshore account.

The majority of businesses in the United States are small businesses, I seriously doubt they are off-shoring profits.

a reply to: onequestion

That when a business raises their cost to cover the wage increase they will often add a little extra. So yes you gained lets say 10% wage increase but the cost of products and services will likely have been raised by 12%-15%. So in essence you will end up loosing 2%-5% buying power.

a reply to: Aazadan

the one who now has a much lower price will see a greater share of business

Like I said in my previous post in some business that are very dynamic such as online stores where its solely about prices that may occur. However, even in those businesses you would be hard pressed to find that they only increased the prices to cover their nut and not add a couple of cents here and there. Business are usually not in business to cover their nut.They have to project for the future and unexpected expenses.

In most other business where the products and services aren't strictly about just the lower price that will not be the case. For example in the hospitality industries.

The other problem is that we don't have true competition in many markets but rather an Oligopoly controlled market who dictate the prices instead of the consumers.

I'm guessing that you have never owned a successful business nor have you ever had to determine when and how to increase your prices. I have and I can tell you that customers notice and don't like it when you increase prices. Hence, when you do raise it you need to make sure you cover not only for today but down the road as well.

a reply to: Mugly

Thank you very much for an honest answer!

When I was welding in the shipyards and refineries my pay was from $12.50 to $20 an hour. At $12.50 I would have been glad for a raise, when making $20 I would have been glad to see others get a raise. But I would add my real money was from the insane amount of overtime I worked.

So while a McD worker might get the same hourly wage, my 80 to 100 hr work week would assure I made a much bigger pay check.

Edit: I was getting time and a half for overtime.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

There are a lot of labor laws broken in America all the time.

"15 min break to get a breather? What's that? If I take one my boss will scream at me, we're short staffed as it is...file a complaint? Hell no, I'm just lucky to have a job!"

a reply to: interupt42

What kind of business's will this affect the most?

Also please add links.