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Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage

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posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

When business raise their rates its typically NOT only to cover recent rise in operation cost. It also includes a percentage to cover future costs and unexpected fluctuating costs.

So if the new minimum wage rise adds an additional 3% cost to the business they will likely raise their prices by at least 5% on the conservative side depending on the product and services. That means that the minimum wage employee lost buying power despite the fact he got a pay increase.

Since you want a link here is a link:


www.entrepreneur.com...
One more thing: Make sure you raise your fees high enough so you don't have to increase them again for at least another year or two. Frequent fee hikes tell your customers you don't know how to run your business, and they'll lose confidence in your judgment.


Like I have said numerous times, the discrepancy in pay in this country is rather disgusting but I'm also not falling for diversion tactics put out by our politicians.

Raising the minimum is just political B$ that people fall for.

We have raised minimum wage in the past and yet the discrepancy between the super wealthy and the middleclass and below continues to sky rocket.


You would be better off putting your efforts to separate lobbying money from congress than chasing your tail with the minimum wage.

The pay discrepancy is because Mega Corporations are the ones creating the laws in this country and they have killed competition and small businesses.

The use of foreign labor both legally H1 visa and illegal aliens along with Oligopoly controlled industries effect the discrepancy in pay in this country. Those are tools to keep the majority of peoples pay down while the top 1% keep their 50 million dollar bonuses. The minimum wage is to distract you.


edit on 05731America/ChicagoTue, 28 Jul 2015 13:05:37 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

I know that.

There are fewer jobs due to technology and innovation and what's left goes to h1-b visas at lower rates or contracted out for less with no benefits (1099).

This has the greatest impact on small business due to the fact that the higher paying jobs have been outsourced further exacerbating the issue by adding even more to the already saturated market.

Trust me I know the issues but that doesn't change the fact that anyone making less than 15.00 am hour is struggling to survive.

Graduates should be starting at at least 40k a year in the modern market. 40-50-60k a year isnt what it was 10 years ago. All wages are stagnant and corporate lobbyist have taken over the government and made it easier for themselves to stay in power and create the oligarchy that it exist.

edit on 7/28/2015 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: onequestion




Trust me I know the issues but that doesn't change the fact that anyone making less than 15.00 am hour is struggling to survive.


I don't disagree with you that they are struggling. What I don't agree with you on, is thinking that raising the minimum wage will help them. In reality they will lose buying power and the middleclass will become poorer as well.

I'm not sure what the best answer is but I have seen and understand why raising the minimum wage is just a false hope solution.


edit on 28731America/ChicagoTue, 28 Jul 2015 14:28:21 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
I'm guessing that you have never owned a successful business nor have you ever had to determine when and how to increase your prices. I have and I can tell you that customers notice and don't like it when you increase prices. Hence, when you do raise it you need to make sure you cover not only for today but down the road as well.


Adding a couple percent in padding so that you don't have to raise prices in the future doesn't matter. You're still increasing the purchasing power of those at the bottom by an amount much greater than the price increase.

The only time raising the minimum wage doesn't help, is when it's not raised by enough (such as the situation for the past couple decades).



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan




You're still increasing the purchasing power of those at the bottom by an amount much greater than the price increase.


How is that? Your business would not last long if that was true.

What you are saying is that my cost of operation went up due to the minimum wage by 5% ( for simplicity sakes) but I as the owner only chose to raise my prices by 4%. Sorry but that is not how business typically works if they want to stay in business.

Business owners take advantage of the minimum wage increase because people expect the cost of goods to go up. So they pad it to cover future costs as well.

SO what will happen in reality is that my cost of operation went up due to the minimum wage by 5% ( for simplicity sakes) but I as the owner will increase my prices by 8%( for simplicity sakes) to avoid having to raise them again in the immediate future and to cover unforeseen expenses.




www.entrepreneur.com...
One more thing: Make sure you raise your fees high enough so you don't have to increase them again for at least another year or two. Frequent fee hikes tell your customers you don't know how to run your business, and they'll lose confidence in your judgment.


Raising the minimum wage is fools gold.
edit on 58731America/ChicagoTue, 28 Jul 2015 14:58:32 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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According to the U.S. Department of Labor, “a review of 64 studies on minimum wage increases found no discernible effect on employment.” And contrary to popular belief, relatively large minimum-wage hikes like those recently passed in Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles are not unprecedented.


source



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad




“a review of 64 studies on minimum wage increases found no discernible effect on employment.”


Not surprising. They passed the operating cost increase to the consumer with a little extra on top.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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Well technically if you do the math in California people should be making $24 an hour not $9 especially with the cost of living here! If you're making minimum wage at $9 you're living in poverty!



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
How is that? Your business would not last long if that was true.

What you are saying is that my cost of operation went up due to the minimum wage by 5% ( for simplicity sakes) but I as the owner only chose to raise my prices by 4%. Sorry but that is not how business typically works if they want to stay in business.


No, because not all of your employees make minimum wage, and wages don't make up 100% of your operating expenses you also have materials, utilities, rent, business loan repayments, and so on which are largely insulated from the cost of wages (materials are somewhat linked).

What happens here is that those at minimum wage jump from $7.25 to $15/hour and see a 107% increase in wages. However, your total expense in wages probably only goes up by 33% to 50%. Throw in some padding and you're increasing prices by 40% to 60%. So if someone was earning $7.25 and your product cost $1 it took them 8 minutes 17 seconds to buy your product. After the increase they're earning $15/hour and your product now costs $1.50, they can purchase it in 6 minutes.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
I'm not sure what the best answer is but I have seen and understand why raising the minimum wage is just a false hope solution.


The solution would be to fix CPI calculations, the market could fix itself on it's own over time if that were to happen, everyone is currently operating under false pretenses which is causing the minimum wage and most other wages (as they're based on the minimum) to lose purchasing power. Or we could intervene and do it faster by fixing CPI and mandating a small wage increase every year for the next three decades (such as 1% above the inflation rate per year for 30-40 years).

Edit: Everything is based on CPI, it's very important to get it right and we haven't been doing so for a long time now.
edit on 28-7-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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How about an industry like I'm in where prices are fixed so raising prices isn't even an option. My business would be simply SCREWED.

Y'all can go #$%@ yourselves, if you can't afford to live where you live, then seems to me like you need to move somewhere the cost of living isn't so high. I as a rural living person am not willing to finance yuo because you want to live in the big city where your cost of living is OUTRAGEOUS.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan




Everything is based on CPI, it's very important to get it right and we haven't been doing so for a long time now.

I have faith in the Mega corporate behemoths that create our laws that they will do everything in their power to make sure we don't get it right in the best interest of the masses.

Its apparent they wan't to get rid of the middle-class because it gives them absolute control like in many foreign country where you have the rich and the poor. The minimum wage hike is an attack on the middleclass and in the long run at best the poor might break even.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
I have faith in the Mega corporate behemoths that create our laws that they will do everything in their power to make sure we don't get it right in the best interest of the masses.


Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are both anti banks enough that I believe they would do it. The changes to CPI basically let banks cut interest rates to almost nothing.

It takes two steps to fix CPI.
#1. Chart the change in the price of like goods over time.
#2. Add some oversight to the basket of goods used to compute expenses.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

So basically according to your logic, if they raised the minimum wage to $15, then the business world would all raise there prices so that neither the poor or middle class can any longer afford there products?

That's not how it works in reality, big corps will continue to keep there prices as competitive as possible in order to keep there turnover as large as possible. They want as many customers as possible walking though there doors, that's how they make large profits, its not just how much they profit from an individual item that keeps them profitable. Hence why buying in bulk is usually cheaper.

There will probably be some smaller business that will refuse (or can't) to take the hit and will raise the cost of there products or services to unaffordable prices, but they will lose customers. Then eventually go out of business and be absorbed by others who kept there prices competitive.






edit on 28-7-2015 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
So basically according to your logic, if they raised the minimum wage to $15, then the business world would all raise there prices so that neither the poor or middle class can any longer afford there products?


It is not about making them unaffordable, it is about them becoming less affordable.


That's not how it works in reality, big corps will continue to keep there prices as competitive as possible in order to keep there turnover as large as possible. They want as many customers as possible walking though there doors, that's how they make large profits, its not just how much they profit from an individual item that keeps them profitable. Hence why buying in bulk is usually cheaper.

There will probably be some smaller business that will refuse (or can't) to take the hit and will raise the cost of there products or services to unaffordable prices, but they will lose customers. Then eventually go out of business and be absorbed by others who kept there prices competitive.


So when the SMALLER BUSINESS loses customers to the BIG CORPS and is absorbed in your above analogy, that is a good thing?

Thought not.







posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


So when the SMALLER BUSINESS loses customers to the BIG CORPS and is absorbed in your above analogy, that is a good thing?

Thought not.


Well, its obviously not a good thing. But it is the name of the game in a capitalist society and no different to what currently happens.

Personally, I'd prefer to buy my groceries at a small independent locally run place. But they just cost way to much than the massive supermarkets and can't offer as much products. It's just capitalism.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa




So basically according to your logic, if they raised the minimum wage to $15, then the business world would all raise there prices so that neither the poor or middle class can any longer afford there products?


not even close to what I said but apparently you took creative liberties to justify your cause.

What it boils down to, is that they are going to not only raise the cost of their product to cover the minimum wage but they are going to add some extra on top of it. Which will lower your buying power despite you having more money in your pocket.

If minimum wage increases worked why are we having these discussions since they have been increased in the past. I don't recall the minimum wage workers living it up after the last increase.

What I have observed is that the middleclass is downgrading to the minimum wage workers while the rich skyrockets away from both.

Minimum wage increase is just fools gold.

Its apparent this thread is going no where as so many post do here. Luckily for me I don't come here to change others peoples mind but rather reinforce my logic or change it. Unfortunately I haven't seen a valid argument to change my mind that minimum wage increase will help anyone but the rich as it has done in the past including yours.

However, I appreciate you and others here that have kept it civil in this thread despite our difference in opinions which is not always the case.

Its going to be one of those things where we are going to have to agree to disagree instead of going back in forth 300 times trying to make the same points.



edit on 39731America/ChicagoTue, 28 Jul 2015 20:39:06 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

So you want low cost goods/services from an business that pays higher than market wages?

Interesting.



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan




Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are both anti banks enough that I believe they would do it


Even though I tend to lean towards the libertarian side at this time because of the rampant corruption in congress, I do like how he has been upfront on a couple of topics.

Specifically the immigration issue which I use as my political B% litmus test. He appears to be the only one that passed that test including the GOP cesspool of candidates. I just don't understand how anyone can want bigger gov't or oversight while there is rampant abuse in gov't, but that is for another topic.


However, I'm afraid he will be the Democratic Ron Paul and his own party due to corporate and bank alias will destroy him and will not select him as the sponsored candidate.
edit on 04731America/ChicagoTue, 28 Jul 2015 21:04:07 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2015 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I want everyone who works a full time job to be entitled to a decent quality of life. Even if it is at the expense of small businesses being capable of competing with big corps.

Seems like a fair trade off to me, if it helps reduce poverty and human misery within society.



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