Fast food is an easy job everyone can do...

How about we separate the "they're not lesser people" b.s. from the argument, and look at the freaking job for a change?
It's a simple job with little to no responsibility, usually performed by kids who really do not give sh*t about the customers, and can be replaced by any fool right off the street. That is why the jobs pay so little.
I second the sentiment that if you're an adult trying to support a family with a fast food job, you've only got yourself to blame when you can't pay your bills.

a reply to: crazyewok

you can't blame them because you want to order everything other than 1 thru 9...

I really hope that most people realize the best way to solve this problem is by actually supporting small businesses that do pay their employees more and giving up on the #-mill industry that is Fast Food. Aside from the many health and economic benefits that we would gain by moving back to a more traditional style of restaurants, the people who work in those areas would naturally find better oppurtunities for employment if that is the field they choose to dedicate themselves too.

Look, I've met soldiers who would rather get shot at by terrorists again then work fast food. I've met Phd's and bored housewives, construction workers and yes college students (gasp).

Being a cook is a skill, especially if you are serving food to people to lazy or self important to cook for themselves. Customer service is a skill as made evident by the countless posts pointing out how much of an assholes some cashiers can be. It's time we honored that by removing the stupid #s that populate fast food first. This shouldn't be a job for kids learning to cut their teeth or for slackers, it should be a job for people who can cook good food at a steady pace. It should be a job where someone who likes working with people can work with people.

A kids job should be going to college. So if you want a smarter and better work force, raise the min wage to the point that kids are cut out and SUPPORT FREE OR LOW COST TUITION AT COLLEGES. We need more than anything to get rid of "Kid Jobs" altogether, it becomes far too easy for that to lead into a long life of miserable jobs.

originally posted by: ketsuko
It's not about how worthwhile you feel at the job. It's about how many other people on the planet at that time can do the very same work you are doing that determines the pay.

If I can go out and pick up random schmo off the street to do what you're doing with next to no training at short notice (and pretty much all fast food jobs are those jobs), then the job doesn't command much pay.

But feel free to start your own fast food joint a pay people what you feel the jobs deserve.

But what my parents told me when I used to loathe my fast food job was that it was training me for the future an teaching me what I definitely DID NOT want to do for the rest of my life so stay in school.

Bank tellers.

Super easy job if you know how to count. Anyone can do it. Nearly double the pay of fast food.

However, a degree is required. Not to do the job, but to discriminate against the poor and unwashed.

a reply to: Puppylove

Its not as much that those jobs are easy but that the necessary experience and education is less thus there is a larger labour pool.

I am a strong believer that anyone that works full time should be entitled to a living wage, however, with that said, a person that wants to better themselves needs to look at these jobs as a stepping stone rather than a career.

Yep these jobs will become automated within the next 3 or so years as will many others. The problem will be where will the work be for ordinary folk once this starts to happen? Very frightening stuff and do NOT rely on our Governments to help out as it will not happen. They are in the back pocket of big business and that is so obvious!

Fast Food jobs are supposed to be hard, fast paced, low pay, and a high turnover.

It's been the business model for many years for a reason. You're meant to move on to bigger and better things, and for those of you who LIKE the fast food industry, there are management opportunities, Where you move up, and get more pay.

See how that works? They are stepping stones, a path to bigger and better things.

I started out working in a pizza shop in 1986. That lasted until I found a job at a pharmacy delivering prescriptions, then on to a Grocery store as a bagger. Yes, a bagger. Then I moved up to a department in that store... and on to a better job...on to an even better job

So it goes until you get into a job that you :

a) like
b) are paid well for

Be a good employee, show up on time, treat every moment of your time on the clock as if your paycheck depended on it (it truly does after all!) and you will advance, and if that job doesn't advance you, move on until you find one that does.

That's how the world of employment works. YOU are ultimately in control.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer
No-one should have to work hard, because it is hard.

Everyone should get a corner office immediately upon graduating 6th grade.

With balloons.

Seriously though, life sucks sometimes. It isn't easy.

Never saw a guarantee that it was supposed to be easy either.

It sure does suck. And I'm not saying someone should flip a switch and put life on "easy mode" for everyone.

But people working an honest 40 should earn a livable wage. Those are my thoughts on it.

A living wage is an arbitrary term.

Does it mean being able to afford basic cable? Or is HBO a right?

Life isn't easy, it isn't fair, it often sucks.

You can either make the best of it and work hard, or find ways around that.

Sigh. Of course HBO isn't a right. A television isn't a "right." Let's get real here.

A living wage is what it would take for an individual to live at or above the poverty level.

A living wage for any worker should be enough to cover her or his basic needs, and the needs of her family.

I think it means not having to be on food stamps while working forty hours per week. It means being able to afford to pay your low-end rent. Food, shelter, transportation (not luxury - even bus fare or a used car and maint.), communication (basic need these days is to have some kind of phone and possibly internet), health care, clothes, etc.

That is my understanding of a living wage. If you can scratch together enough for some entertainment on top of it, great! If not, well, then, something to see if you can earn some more money somewhere to provide for that.

I really don't think a lot of folks are being irrational about wanting a living wage, as defined above. Do you?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: dawnstar

The "fix" isn't to pay burger flippers more. You could pay me $50/hr to do that job, and I'd still hate it. And would happily quit to return to this job that is less. I could have bailed and went to the oilfield making close to $200k a year.....but i'd hate the job. So i didn't do that.

But if you want to fix the economy, then you need to put value back into it. You can't just shoehorn higher wages for folks who really don't earn it. Instead, provide them opportunities to train for and acquire jobs where they can actually earn the wages they want.

20 years ago McDonalds was a job for kids, felons, and simpletons. We've lost enough middle class jobs that bright people end up degraded working for a place like that. Their talents are left to languish while they ring up burger orders by pushing a button that has a picture of hte product on it. Its mindless, dreary, and wholly unfullfilling. McDonalds work is not a solution for our economy, no matter how much money you throw at it.

McDonalds and fast food are meant for 2 things: for slackers to get by, and for greenhorns to develop some basic job skills.

Jobs are becoming more and more scarce there is no magic infinite number of better jobs. As time progresses this trend continues. Are there better jobs that pay more? Not for everybody, and in a world with more and more automation it's going to get worse and worse, and even ignoring fast food, ALL jobs are depreciating in value and pay while cost goes up despite corporations making more and more profit while wages don't.

Even IF every human applied themselves 100% if every human put themselves through college, and every human attempted to start there own business, there wouldn't BE decent jobs for all of them, and that situation is getting worse.

The better yourself argument is not a realistic one, since common sense tells anyone who really thinks about it, that if everyone did that we'd "still" have people having no choice but to survive at these kind of jobs.

What we'd have is a whole crap load of failed businesses and a bunch of people with educations they paid a fortune for or in huge debt for student loans still working at places like McDonalds. In fact degrees would become so common place, you'd need a super doctorate just to be worthy to do anything. So now people will need to go to school for like 20 years just to do pretty basic jobs now in days as degrees become more and more common. Even then, no guarantee and another great way to get infinite debt.

The better yourself argument is only so effective before it falls apart.

The world is changing with automation and society needs to either adapt and change or we're screwed, cause there's only going to be so many automation repair jobs to go around.

Maybe fast food employee should be a tip out position.

"Keep the change."

a reply to: Puppylove

The "better yourself" argument hinges on people having enough insight to set themselves up for success.

The things you talk about...well known. So, then, the difference between success and failure, outside of luck, skill, perseverance, is just plain common sense.

And if you make a bad decision that sets you back....another key to "winning" is to learn to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. If you can turn an L into a W....you get the point.

But as someone who manages people, and lots of them over the years, I can tell you the most frequent cause of professional failure is effort. Seriously. More often than not, its just getting someone to come to work.

The ultimate payback would be to force Congress and big corporation leaders, including fast food, to eat this fast food.

It would allow them to enter into the universe of:

Don't mess with the people making and serving your food.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

So you believe there's infinite opportunity for every single person to better themselves currently, in the next 5 years, 10 years, 30 years if things keep going as they are? Good to know.

a reply to: Puppylove

For someone without a tenacious attitude, nothing good will ever happen that doesn't come to them.

The way i see it, there are two types of folks: fishermen and hunters. Fishermen sit and wait for the fish to come to them. They cast a net, and then sit and wait. Hunters, on the other hand, go out and find their next meal. Hunt it down.

When you need to hunt, you shouldn't be fishing, just because its easier.

I live life like a linebacker. That is why i have the worldview I have.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Fishermen sit and wait for the fish to come to them.

You've never seen a throw net fisherman. Or an archer. Or a fly fisherman. Or a spearfisher.

It's all about the stalk, the hunt. Taking that fish and not the other one.

originally posted by: onequestion

That's a load of crap.

You would know because you have your degree in computer science, or electrical engineering, right?

I thought not.

There's plenty of high paying positions out there. I've heard so many IT managers say they need to hire PHD's ASAP, and know it'll never get done.

I don't have a degree, I don't have connections, I got nothing but busting my ass and using my own mind to get forward in this life. There's no reason anyone couldn't do the same outside of will and a lack of intellect.

I challenge you to give me a single reason why I can do better than you that has to do with any kind of "unfair" or "no jobs". That's horse manure.

originally posted by: [post=19525924]ScientificRailgun]

There's these things called feet, you can use them to move through space time. Might try it out once in a while.

So your answer is "Go be homeless somewhere else".

Got it.

Yea, way to be dishonest for those stars. Sheesh this is ridiculous!

Go talk to manbehindthemask. He had a good comment about being homeless, working at goodwill, and working his way up to owning his own business.

Our system is beyond most other nations. I talked to two foreigner uber drivers today that was all about the USA. They were so damned happy to have opportunity and get away from their corrupted system in their own country.

Pathetic whiners in this thread. Shame on you all.

a reply to: Phage



The fishermen I see tend to sit, drunkenly, with a line in the water.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I bet they don't catch many keepers.

Making the best of a #ty situation and eeking out what little success you can from it does not make things not a #ty situation or getting worse.

Anywhere in the world you can find A success story of someone getting somewhere. I'm sure some poor ethiopian somewhere got out and made something of themselves. Does that mean # doesn't stink there or should be improved?

My point is, even you should probably be better off than you are if our economy wasn't tanking, and it's only getting worse, and the US is better than a lot of place who are much further along than us on the fast track towards a world of poverty.