The Confederate flag should be taken down and burned.

a reply to: beezzer

and i believe in the power of the people to choose to bring it down. i feel the people of south carolina should vote on whether or not to keep it. personally i feel it should be taken down, in my opinion it would be like flying the nazi flag in berlin. whether or not one should directly connect the confederate flag to slavery or the nazi flag to the holocaust is up for debate but there is no questioning that both of those regimes accepted slavery(confederacy) holocaust(germany) imo that is enough reason not to have them flying above a state capitol.

originally posted by: BobbyRock
@ Answer

No, they're just the national symbols of entire countries and they're not only associated with the past atrocities that they once symbolized.

Just one minor, but rather crucial detail (IMHO) about that statement..........
The Confederate flag isn't the national symbol of this here United States of America - the Stars and Stripes is.............

Really? I wasn't aware...

What does that have to do with my point that historical symbols hold more meaning than "this flag once represented bad things."

The flags I mentioned have, at times, been symbols of terrible atrocities and some would argue that our Stars and Stripes should be included in that list. I don't see anyone calling for those flags to be banned/burned/removed from buildings because of what they stood for in the past.

I don't own a confederate flag and have no desire to display one anywhere. I grew up in Mississippi so I know that many people see the flag as a symbol of their southern pride. For all but a tiny fraction of people who display that flag, it has nothing to do with slavery, white supremacy, or racism.

Some people display the crusader cross and fly the Christian flag... it doesn't mean they secretly wish they could go to war against all Muslims.

This whole argument is yet another example of people who don't understand the culture of another but they want to dictate what's acceptable within that culture. How about you focus on the actual racial problems instead of trying to do symbolic nonsense like getting rid of flags?

originally posted by: LDragonFire

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: LDragonFire

Ask Them if they would be happy with a Black flag with a big X on it to see th ehypocrisy in the question of Removing the ALABAMA battle flag.

Defend your traitorous flag all you want. The good guys won the civil war, why would I honor the soldiers what tried to destroy the Constitution?

Good guys huh? Thats debatable look at the mess the good guys caused to happen after their "win" ANd really ANY AMERICAN FLAG is TRAITOROUS then since we Betrayed england by becoming free right? Read my reply to KALI on page 19. I said it deserves to fly but NOT ON THE STATEHOUSE GROUNDS AND IN A MUSEUM EXHIBIT treating it as the historic artifact it is.

How would history look if we burned all of the bad things that happenned? pretty darn empty. Also I take your INSINUATION of being a RACIST because i support my states history very seriously and will report it to the MODS if you do not apologize. There are no races except the human one. sooner people get that through their skulls the better.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: muse7

Perhaps we should just "white out" every aspect of American history that was distasteful.

We could just have a clean and happy and PC and rated- G version of history.

No, we should never forget about the distasteful aspects of American history.

But, we shouldn't encourage segments of society to celebrate those distasteful aspects either.

People are going to "celebrate" whatever they want, regardless of what any of us desire.

We need to educate, respond, teach, everyone who embraces racism that it is wrong and an archaic thought process.

Hard to teach people that when we allow government buildings to hoist a flag that represents racism.

So go ahead and defend the flag...then talk out of the other side of you mouth and say that racism is archaic.

Not once have I ever defended the flag.

I was only defending the freedom to choose.

And yet you seem opposed to the freedom of choice of the OP and others who think a reasonable protest is to burn the confederate flag.

If your only defense is to allow people freedom of choice...you should be applauding and defending the OP...and yet you are not.

Covert defense of a topic might work for some...but for others, myself included, we can see right through to your true objective.

I'm against any effort to ban anything.

Please indicate where I ever said that they should not have the freedom to burn it.

Please indicate where in the OP they said they wanted a ban on anything. Seems pretty clear the OP is about protest to speak out against antiquated racism.

Which is something that you claim to be against as well...and yet you are opposed to this OP with only contributing negative and defensive posts instead of supporting the OPs right to choose to protest.

You seem to have a problem with people protesting by burning the Confederate Flag and that it shouldn't be flown on government buildings.

But you are doing your darndest to claim that you aren't in support of the Confederate Flag...but it's hard not to view you as a supporter when you are against protesting it.

a reply to: yuppa

and if the confederacy had one the war we would still have slavery & segregation . if germany had won ww2 the jews would be gone and then the blacks, gays and all people of color.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: yuppa

and if the confederacy had one the war we would still have slavery & segregation .

That's laughable. Slavery was on its way out way before the Civil War started thanks to industrialization. The confederacy fought for states to have the right to choose to keep slavery or not because the abolition of slavery would bankrupt many southern states whose sole source of cash was agricultural. Industrialization would have eventually put an end to slavery regardless because running machinery was much cheaper than buying/feeding/housing/providing medical care to slaves.

People like to pretend that the big bad evil southern states had all the slaves and the glorious northern states wanted to end it... that's baloney. There were plenty of slave owners on both sides and plenty on both sides who were anti-slavery.

The anti-slavery politicians also argued that even though slavery was wrong, it certainly didn't mean that "negroes" were equal to whites or that they deserved the same rights afforded to a white man. The first gun control laws in the nation were enacted to keep guns out of the hands of blacks. These points are often ignored by people who wish to rewrite history in an effort to demonize the southern states.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: yuppa

and if the confederacy had one the war we would still have slavery & segregation . if germany had won ww2 the jews would be gone and then the blacks, gays and all people of color.

Eventually With the advent of tech Slavery in feild work would had naturally died out because you dont have to feed a machine. SO no eventually money versus investment would had ended slavery. Still Segregation would had been left though.

Thanks to the Catholic church screwing with the Bible and the mis teaching of "keeping to ones own" and them promoting a white jesus the seeds of The slave trade were sown. Alot of slave owners would quote the bible because they were ignorant of the true meaning of what was written thanks to the catholic church.

Anyway Maybes and could had beens are hard to predict. diffrence between NAZIS and confederacy is one wanted to wipe out everyone but themselves. The confeds would had been happy with a split country and the north let alone. the germans were never happy and wanted to expand. See a difference in Goal there? The union army comitted atrocities on civilians and were no better than confed soldiers. SHermans march is a good example of atrocity.

Still Its just a flag that is a peice of history that needs to be preserved so w e know where we came from and where to not go again. TO burn it or ban it is stupid and inviting a repeat of history.(this time the south would win btw with Texas and most of the great weapons down south way) IF there was another civil war. Hopefully Slavery would never return though.

oh yeah? is that why the south still had racist laws in effect til about 50 years ago? is that why they were throwing acid on blacks at swimming pools and blocking blacks from going to white schools? don't feed me that bs, if the confederacy was still around racism would be a way of life in the south.

a reply to: kruphix

Nice try, but because I'm not in favor of a knee-jerk reaction to a racist act, I'm racist?

Go ahead, burn the flag.

Tear it down.

This is becomming onerous.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
oh yeah? is that why the south still had racist laws in effect til about 50 years ago? is that why they were throwing acid on blacks at swimming pools and blocking blacks from going to white schools? don't feed me that bs, if the confederacy was still around racism would be a way of life in the south.

Ah yes, because racism was ONLY occurring in southern states...

Please get a clue and stop buying everything you're fed by revisionist history books.

a reply to: Answer

ahhhh yes there was and still is racism up here but no one threw acid on kids or blocked and threw rocks at children going to our schools, there were no colored only water fountains here 50 years ago. keep living in denial pal.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
oh yeah? is that why the south still had racist laws in effect til about 50 years ago? is that why they were throwing acid on blacks at swimming pools and blocking blacks from going to white schools? don't feed me that bs, if the confederacy was still around racism would be a way of life in the south.

Most southern democrats kept the jim crow laws in effect. You did read where i said THERE WOULD StiLL BE SEGREGATION RIGHT IF THE CIVIL WAR WOULD HAD BEEN WON BY THE CONFEDS? Your letting your emotions take over. It all comes down to money and education of what Humanity is. If they would had taught 50 yrs ago that humans are the only race this would not even be a issue. Thanks to the church,government power mongers(north and south) and scientist on the government take that didnt happen.

But hey lets do like the NAZIS and burn anything we dont like just to make you feel better k?

i'm not calling to burn anything but it would be nice to vote on whether or not it belongs flying over a state capitol building. the nazi flag and confederate flag would still be good for educational purposes, but imo have no place flying over a government building, i believe you feel the same. the confederate flag represents the losing side in a civil war, they didn't want to be a part of the u.s so right there is a form of treason in my opinion.

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
a reply to: Answer

ahhhh yes there was and still is racism up here but no one threw acid on kids or blocked and threw rocks at children going to our schools, there were no colored only water fountains here 50 years ago. keep living in denial pal.

Actually i found some stuff on Wiki that contradicts your theory of no segregated things in th enorth.

[ THE FOLLOWING IS FROM WIKI ]
Formal segregation also existed in the North. Some neighborhoods were restricted to blacks and job opportunities were denied them by unions in, for example, the skilled building trades. Blacks who moved to the North in the Great Migration after World War I might have been able to live without the same degree of oppression experienced in the South, however the elements of racism and discrimination still existed.

While it is commonly thought that segregation was a southern phenomenon, segregation was also to be found in "the North". The Chicago suburb of Cicero for example, was made famous when Civil Rights advocate Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. led a march advocating open (race-unbiased) housing.

In the 1930s, however, job discrimination would end greatly for many African Americans in the North, after the Congress of Industrial Organizations, one of America's lead labor unions at the time, agreed to integrate the union.[37]

School segregation in the North was also a major issue.[38] In Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, towns near the Mason–Dixon line enforced school segregation, despite state laws outlawing the practice of it.[38] Indiana also required school segregation by state law.[38] During the 1940s, however, NAACP lawsuits quickly depleted segregation from the Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New Jersey southern areas.[38] In 1949, Indiana officially repealed its school segregation law as well.[38] The most common form of segregation in the northern states came from anti-miscegenation laws.[27]

Segregation in the US

Theres the link. Oh and YEah the Flags not actually flying OVER the Statehouse these days its actually on the Grounds but not over the Statehouse anymore. Thanks for your calm response.

Let's take a walk down memory lane in Calhoun City, Miississippi in 1962, from the eyes of an 11yr old. At the beginning of the day is catching the school bus. The all white school bus. The "others" are in another dilapidated old bus, even she could see that. Then she is dropped off at an all white school. "The others" are sent to another building way out the woods somewhere. Then after school she goes to town with her mom. The girl is thirsty and gets a drink of water from the town courtyard, labeled "whites only". She does not know where "The others" get a drink. She walks down the sidewalk with mom and all "the others" are suppose to get off the walkway of a white woman. They go into a restaurant, through the front door. "The others" have to use the back entrance and sit in the back where they can't be seen by the white people. Everywhere the girl goes, the signs are "Whites Only" and she don't know where "The Others" go.

In my lifetime, with my own eyes.

a reply to: MOMof3

In your LOCATION and in YOUR LIFE,not everyone.Still thanks for sharing that. I hear those were soem interesting times.

a reply to: yuppa

Eventually With the advent of tech Slavery in feild work would had naturally died out because you dont have to feed a machine. SO no eventually money versus investment would had ended slavery. Still Segregation would had been left though.

Yeah, good thing technology has made it so we don't need any workers in the fields anymore...so I guess all the people crying about migrant workers taking American's jobs are just all crazy...right?

a reply to: Answer

I think that's a fair point.

It's more convenient to pretend that racism is all locked up neatly in the dirty South as opposed to existing behind gated communities or in board rooms or in crappy, dilapidated public schools or trapped in ghettos on the wrong side of the tracks in every town across the U.S.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: kruphix

Nice try, but because I'm not in favor of a knee-jerk reaction to a racist act, I'm racist?

Go ahead, burn the flag.

Tear it down.

This is becomming onerous.

Well, you claim you will defend anyone's right of freedom of choice...except you seem to take sides on that.

You want to defend the people who want to fly the Confederate Flag...but you don't want to defend the people who want to protest against flying the Confederate Flag.

I didn't call you racist...I'm just pointing out that you are adamantly defending one side over the other. If you think that may reflect you as being racist...then that is a conclusion you came to yourself.

a reply to: kruphix

For a moment take slavery out of the equation, for in fact only a small percentage of wealthy Northerners and Southerners actually promoted and/or profited from this unjust institution.

" The Rothschilds and the U.S. Civil War "
source: rense.com...

" The Civil War was America's Bloodiest Conflict "
source: goo.gl...

The following essay represents a perspective that many people in the world today who are struggling against tyranny can respect about the Confederate Battle Flag and the Americans who died defending it.

" The Confederate Battle Flag Continues to be a Symbol of Regional Pride "
source: www.freerepublic.com...

IS THE Confederate battle flag a symbol of hate? Although there are certain connotations that have been improperly associated with the Confederate flag, there are still many people within the American population who display it to show pride in their heritage.

Heritage, not hate.

The Confederate States of America was a compilation of southern states that seceded from the United States of America. Following the formation of this new government, the grievances between the North and South produced hostility and warfare.

Our differences divided us as a nation. Yet during that period, there arose a certain Southern solidarity that people cannot forget.

A liberal federal judge has banned the display of Confederate flags in cemeteries near our area. Could he, not the Southerners who revere the flag, be the prejudiced one?

Only two days out of 365 in a year are people allowed to fly the Confederate battle flag in Point Lookout in Maryland. There have been many appeals, but the judge concluded that it "could" cause hateful uprisings and counter-actions to prevent the flag from flying.

So much for those who died during the Civil War bravely fighting for the South. 3,300 Confederate soldiers died at Point Lookout Cemetery, and the flag would commemorate their lives and their deaths.

Although many people do not understand or agree with what the Confederate States of America stood for, these men gave their lives and had the courage to stand up for what they believed in.

In fact, Confederates fought for the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution--states' rights, no taxation without fair representation and freedom from oppressive government.

They weren't fighting for hate. They weren't fighting to destroy a race.

They were fighting to preserve the government that they had chosen--the Confederate States of America--the government that allowed them to preserve their own way of life.

Fact: The overwhelming majority of Southerners never owned slaves. Slavery as an institution was fading, and making way for more pragmatic agricultural practices, including the use of immigrant labor.

Too many people today do not agree with what Southern soldiers stood for, often basing their opinion on faulty history or willful ignorance. That doesn't mean that we should respect the soldiers from Dixie any less.

Ignorance has turned the South's past into a history of hate. I have grown up in the South. I am not racist. I consider myself to be an open-minded person.

I do have Dixie Pride, though.

I grew up in a Civil War town that has a Confederate Cemetery in the middle of it. There's even a store called "Lee's Outpost."

Yes, there are people who live in Fredericksburg who consider the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred and racism. However, they do not know what it is truly about.

The war between the states was a time when brother fought against brother. It was a time when people didn't have the choice to be passive.

Ultimately, regardless of one's feelings about the flag, banning the Confederate flag is unconstitutional under the Bill of Rights. Flying the flag is considered a form of speech--and if it is legal to burn an American flag, it should be legal without question to fly the Confederate one.

I do own a Confederate flag. I'm a Southerner, proud of my heritage, and I take pride in the fact that my ancestors rose to the occasion and fought for their form of government.

They did not give their lives to protect slavery in the South. They did not die to keep African-Americans from sharing the same liberties and freedoms that they were blessed with. They believed they were fighting for their families, homes and states against an oppressive government in the North.

The book "The South Was Right" provides many facts to support this.

In the end, it almost doesn't matter why they fought. We claim to be a nation that believes in freedom of speech, where everyone can have their own beliefs and not be looked down on for it.

Are we or aren't we?

What makes this country great is that we have the right to make up our own minds about things. People are asked if they believe in freedom of speech. They reply, "Yes, of course I believe in freedom of speech."

Yet when they don't agree with the speech, sometimes they contradict themselves.

As a nation with millions of citizens, we will never agree on any principles or ideas as a whole--except for the fact that freedom cannot be replaced, and rights cannot be sacrificed.

So why should the Confederate flag be an exception? Free speech applies to everyone, and Southerners have great reasons to be proud of their past.