HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yep. I think it's because Muslims are evil, but they aren't persecuted like the wonderful, loving Christians are.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Indigo5

You mean you are calling me a liar ... well I assure you I am not

Being specific to where this Petrol Station was located in the UK, the year this occurred etc. doesn't compromise your identity in any way. How about you provide some specifics to support what I consider an unbelievable claim?

I have to imagine a petrol station in the UK with a sign that says "Muslims Only" would have garnered some public attention?

Not to mention it would have been egregiously and blatantly illegal in the UK for the Petrol Station to have a Muslim Only sign.

Yet you reported it to no one? No news outlets took notice? No passing law enforcement officer?

Yes. Your story appears fabricated to me..I am open to you providing specific evidence to the contrary?

You live in the UK?

Visited often and have friends there? But that said, not sure what your point is...? I don't have to live in the UK to know that it doesn't rain cats there?

So you don't live in the UK but you think you know for certain the makeup of every petrol station in every neighborhood?

I don't need to know the " makeup of every petrol station "...

The story is just as probable as gas station in the USA today having a sign that reads "Muslims Only"...And no law enforcement or media taking notice.

Haven't been to Deatborn then. I used to live near there. Not petrol stations per se, but there are certain places a kaiffir does not go.

Are you referring to Dearborn MI?...where my wifes family is from BTW? ... You imagine there are Gas Stations there that have "Muslim Only" signs?

I see reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Notice I said " not gas stations," and "but there are other places non-Muslims just don't go." Just as there are placed in DC and Baltimore whites or Asians just don't go.

No issue with reading comprehension...

I was just confused since you were vehemently responding to my post where I found a posters claim less than credible ... to have been denied service and directed to a MUSLIMS ONLY sign at a petrol station in the UK?

But apparently your response was dishonestly looking to hustle the topic to more credible ground for convenience while hoping readers were unable to notice?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yep. I think it's because Muslims are evil, but they aren't persecuted like the wonderful, loving Christians are.

Oh yeah, sure we all know that the 80% of Americans who are Christian are persecuted and threatened with torture and death EVERY DAY in this country by ... well, you know ... someone.

Just like that poor couple in Indiana. Why that one "special education" assistant threatened to burn their business down in a Tweet!

How could anybody stand up against that kind of pressure! It's unimaginable.

But ... all that makes us beg the question ... why aren't the few, remnant Christians (you know, there's only 80% of the population of the US LEFT!) standing with their Muslim brothers and sisters in Michigan on this!

Why isn't there outrage across the country that some con-man came in and tried to usurp their religious freedom with a totally fabricated proposal?

What has happened to the support for religious freedom in this country? Or even on ATS!

Unbelievable.

a reply to: Gryphon66

But, didn't you know? Religious freedom is only meant for Christians, not them evil Muslims, who should be kicked back to the country they came from. I mean, duh.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Gryphon66

But, didn't you know? Religious freedom is only meant for Christians, not them evil Muslims, who should be kicked back to the country they came from. I mean, duh.

DOOH. Silly me.

I can understand the mainstream media abandoning or ignoring the Muslim bakers, I had just hoped for more from the religious freedom folks on ATS.

I mean, you know, I'm an atheist-leftist-commie-fascist (according to some) and I still think that these Muslims should not have been subjected to this waste of their precious business time and resources by some flim-flam artist trying to trap them into doing something against their convictions.

28 Pages into the thread though ... no outrage that this con-man was harassing these good Muslim folk.

Unreal.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: NavyDoc

Ya Ya, cry me a river why don't ya.

I'm taking away your freedom by telling you my opinion. Yet your opinion is somehow supposed to be so pure and honest. Give me a freaking break.

I've answered everything you've asked but you don't like it so it must be incorrect. Practice what you preach. Or don't, I don't even care.

Discriminate against everyone you want because you can. Because that's what freedom is all about. You and Your Business trump all. Yay for Doc. Such a modern day way of thinking. Blame the left because the Right is always correct. Individual Freedom is sh*t but Business Freedom is everything. Yep, no black and white thinking there. You're very tolerant. Even when you're not.

Like I said. Argue amongst yourselves.

LOL. Typical leftist. Only whites can be racist and only Christians can be bigots--

To be accurate any race, religion, sexual orientation or color can be racists or bigots...but only ideological extremists desire a government that supports their bigotry and racism...The far right is not beheading infidels on youtube, they would be content with simply stripping "infidels" of their constitutional protections. Big and little steps to institutionalize intolerance and at it's core everything this nations founders fought against.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: kaylaluv

You know, I can't figure this out ... what is the difference between the situation in IN and in MI?

I mean ... yeah sure, in Michigan it's Muslims and in Indiana it's Christians ... but that shouldn't make a difference, right?

I mean, religious freedom is religious freedom.

Right?

Politics. Active politics.

The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

a reply to: Annee

Well, you know Annee, being shocked at the lack of response here in this thread ... I've been doing a bit of research on this con-man Crowder ...

“Many” of the Muslim bakeries did agree to bake the cakes for Crowder and his pretend partner, he admitted. More, he said, that probably would have agreed had the bakeries been run by Christians. His video, however, only featured the three bakeries that refused.

Crowder has previously dressed in camp drag in an attempt to pass himself off as a trans woman at a Planet Fitness gym. He dressed as a giant teddy bear and tried to take away children’s Halloween candy in 2012, ostensibly to teach the kids a lesson about government handouts and the welfare economy.

Source

Apparently, this fraudster Crowder regularly makes a mockery and tries to shut down free speech and religious freedom of whomever and whatever he finds disagreeable in his apparently totalitarian fascist world-view.

According to the story above, he even tried to steal candy from children! LITERALLY!

I'm not surprised he tried to steal business from faithful Muslim businessfolk in Michigan with his assaults.

I'm just surprised that none of our resident exemplars of religious freedom are condemning his actions.

I'd like to go on record here, as a Democratic-atheist-leftist, that I find Mr. Crowder's attempts to harass these Muslim bakers abominable.

Unimaginable that it falls to me to stand up for religious freedom.

Paradoxical, even. Ludicrous.

Absurd.

originally posted by: Annee
The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

And THAT is the ONLY reason we don't hear about Muslim businesses being discriminatory. On the other hand, there are MANY Christian Organizations whose express purpose is to deny rights to LGBT people and publicly shame them for who they are.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: kaylaluv

Can we not agree that dismemberment and murder does harm but not wanting to participate in what is felt to be wrong is way different? And also that some are making a small disagreement about serving willingly verses against ones will, into a scenario with overkill logic that defeats the nature of what Freedom itself means?

But that's my point. Why is it felt to be wrong? What is wrong? Why is it wrong for two people to want to commit to each other? It just doesn't make any sense. And yes, it hurts to have someone say to you that who you are and what you do is so bad that they can't even have anything to do with it. It's crazy, because it isn't even bad! Let me repeat: it's not bad to want to commit to another consenting adult human who wants to commit to you as well. It harms no one - in fact, it helps everyone. Committed couples help society to remain stable. This is a fact. All Christians should be encouraging everyone - gay or straight - to be in a loving, committed relationship. And they should be happy to participate in the celebration of a loving, committed relationship. To judge them just because of their gender just make zero sense.

I can understand judging those who engage in rampant, unprotected sex. Diseases are spread this way, and that harms others. But I cannot understand why someone would judge a person who wants to settle down and commit to another. Seriously. We need to get past this.

"Felt to be wrong" and refusing to participate is not hate and is not murder. NO ONE is harmed by refusal to participate and a lot of religions consider the sin of immorality of ANY KIND to be avoided BUT to LOVE the sinner, if you will.

This case involved gays and i have a niece who is married to a very butch woman that i LOVE and accept as humans but as i said i don't condone that behavior. Nor would i condone my own youthful foolish behavior either for that matter as you will see below if you read on.

There are plenty of not wanting to participate stories like others not wanting to smokeg weed was, and YES i did try it and drinking and rock music when i was younger (still like the music he he).Should people not want to participate in things like that which THEY FEEL are sins you would understand those, I hope. Also, there are those who refused to hang out with me and accept me openly being against their morals. I see no difference and yet we both agree readily that there IS a problem when someone is saying "you are black/yellow/ red/white and i am not so leave my place of business". Laws that stop THAT are good IMHO. But no law should force you to sit down with me while i get drunk or sell me food in your establishment if i come in smelling of weed, now crack or even heroin as it was back in my youth. Nor should we expect them to accept that or anything that clearly violates their morals. That is the point. NO harm no foul is the story here.

Your freedom ends at the tip end of my nose.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Annee
The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

And THAT is the ONLY reason we don't hear about Muslim businesses being discriminatory. On the other hand, there are MANY Christian Organizations whose express purpose is to deny rights to LGBT people and publicly shame them for who they are.

I respectfully disagree.

"No one is so blind as those that refuse to see" !!

They are certainly throwing gays off of buildings and worse in other places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Nowhere are there Christians doing this that i have EVER heard of at least in the modern setting. Double standards are the problem for sure when you ignore the obvious and that is the point of the OP, IMHO.

originally posted by: Justoneman


This case involved gays and i have a niece who is married to a very butch woman that i LOVE and accept as humans but as i said i don't condone that behavior.

What is it exactly that you don't condone? That two people are committed to each other in marriage? Are they drunk and disorderly? Are they partaking in illegal drug use? Are they forcing drugs and alcohol on children? What are they doing exactly?

a reply to: Justoneman

1. Who asked you to "condone" anyone's behavior? Do you ask people do "condone" you when you try to buy something in a store?

2. If same-sex marriage is against the Christian religion (it isn't, uniformly), then Christians who believe that way shouldn't marry someone of their own sex. The issue here is not same sex marriage but unlawful discrimination.

3. We have all sinned according to Christian beliefs, yes? Like Kevin O'Connor who has divorced from his previous spouse? Jesus is on record as directly forbidding divorce, yet, He never said one word about same-sex marriage. He did talk about lying though.

Wait ... wait ... this thread is about the lack of outrage at the con-man Steven Crowder trying to hood-wink and steal from legitimate businesses in Michigan ... RIGHT?

It's not about the freedom of speech for those who registered their protest against those hapless O'Connors in Indiana, is it?

It's not about the national concentrated attempt on the part of Christian-based lobbying groups and media outlets to take away the equal rights of LGBT Americans, is it?

Wow, I must have misread.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Annee
The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

And THAT is the ONLY reason we don't hear about Muslim businesses being discriminatory. On the other hand, there are MANY Christian Organizations whose express purpose is to deny rights to LGBT people and publicly shame them for who they are.

I'm sure there are plenty of incidents we never hear of, that never get reported.

And incidents someone puts on Facebook that quietly goes away. Probably handled in a civil manner between the offended and the offender.

When a Fundy Christian is involved, it is the Right Wing Political Circus that manufactures the media hype.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Annee
The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

And THAT is the ONLY reason we don't hear about Muslim businesses being discriminatory. On the other hand, there are MANY Christian Organizations whose express purpose is to deny rights to LGBT people and publicly shame them for who they are.

I respectfully disagree.

"No one is so blind as those that refuse to see" !!

They are certainly throwing gays off of buildings and worse in other places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Nowhere are there Christians doing this that i have EVER heard of at least in the modern setting. Double standards are the problem for sure when you ignore the obvious and that is the point of the OP, IMHO.

If you think American Extreme Fundamental Christians are not an added force behind anti-gay political behaviors in foreign countries, think again.

Brian Brown NOM

in response to Starbucks opening up in the Middle East

So for example, in Qatar, in the Middle East, we’ve begun working to make sure that there’s some price to be paid for this," Brian Brown says in audio recording of the conference call, which can heard on the Independent's website. "These are not countries that look kindly on same-sex marriage. And this is where Starbucks wants to expand, as well as India. So we have done some of this; we’ve got to do a lot more.”

www.huffingtonpost.com...

a reply to: Annee

I think the issue of a national legislative act that acknowledges that gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans* citizens cannot be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is the way to settle the matter.

Indiana half-heartedly added such language to their statutes, which Governor Pence signed.

A national measure is likely the only way to insure equality for all, including both the religious and LGBT.

After all, that's what we're all really looking for ... right?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Annee
The Chrititan Right is not just a little pizza parlor in Indiana.

They are very powerful and have strongly, with intent, tried to stop equality for LGBT.

I doubt any fundamental base religion is openly accepting LGBT, but they are not making a spectacle of themselves in the anti-LGBT public political arena.

And THAT is the ONLY reason we don't hear about Muslim businesses being discriminatory. On the other hand, there are MANY Christian Organizations whose express purpose is to deny rights to LGBT people and publicly shame them for who they are.

...AND, of course, the fact that, when challenged 'Je Suis Charlie', their extremist wing will track down you, your family, and everyone you know 'Je Suis Charlie' and go 'ape-sh*t on your a**'' for violating their religion: 'Je Suis Charlie'.

Christians, when confronted, generally apologize profusely, and fall all over themselves to convince you they're NOT racist-bigot-homophobes...which most of them are not.

originally posted by: Justoneman
They are certainly throwing gays off of buildings and worse in other places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

But not in Michigan, Colorado, New Mexico, Oregon or Indiana, where we're talking about religious freedom vs the freedom to be served at public accommodations...

Or are you claiming Christianity's purity by comparing them to the most vile and despicable actions around the world? Are you really saying, "At least we're not killing people" as some sort of badge of honor?

originally posted by: IAMTAT
...AND, of course, the fact that, when challenged 'Je Suis Charlie', their extremist wing will track down you, your family, and everyone you know 'Je Suis Charlie' and go 'ape-sh*t on your a**'' for violating their religion: 'Je Suis Charlie'.

If you're comparing Christianity in the US to Islam's most despicable and vile extremists around the world to make Christianity look good, I'm missing your point.