HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

originally posted by: Annee

What a surprise.

I'm not sure what that means, but you're telling me my opinion some how matters less because I don't have to deal with polio braces in a thread about LGBT issues.

You're right I don't have polio, but I do have the LGBT problems associated with this thread. I'm sorry for not agreeing with the pre-established mode of conversation.

a reply to: mahatche

No, it's not about polio.

It IS about unfair discrimination.

Annee is trying to share a very direct and very personal truth with you and it is a very important truth for you, me, for Annee, and for ALL OF US.

If you notice what happens in almost every thread about public accommodation, religious right to discriminate, etc., is that folks come in time after time and say "well, I think this." Opinion after opinion after opinion about some degree of "well, this is okay but that's not."

It's NOT about personal opinion, but that wasn't a personal slam at you from Annee; it's just a fact.

It is about the rule of law.

It is about equality before the law.

It is about a long, long fight for the relative equality that you enjoy today, no matter what your age is.

It's not about ME.

It's not about ANNEE.

It's not about YOU.

IT is about ALL OF US, gay, straight, bisexual, Christian, Muslim, atheist, butcher, baker, and candle-maker.

Equality, all of US having the same rights ... not more, not less.

Equitable laws that allow all of us to achieve our best.

Simple idea.

Apparently complex in realization.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mahatche

No, it's not about polio.

It IS about unfair discrimination.

Annee is trying to share a very direct and very personal truth with you and it is a very important truth for you, me, for Annee, and for ALL OF US.

If you notice what happens in almost every thread about public accommodation, religious right to discriminate, etc., is that folks come in time after time and say "well, I think this." Opinion after opinion after opinion about some degree of "well, this is okay but that's not."

It's NOT about personal opinion, but that wasn't a personal slam at you from Annee; it's just a fact.

It is about the rule of law.

It is about equality before the law.

It is about a long, long fight for the relative equality that you enjoy today, no matter what your age is.

It's not about ME.

It's not about ANNEE.

It's not about YOU.

IT is about ALL OF US, gay, straight, bisexual, Christian, Muslim, atheist, butcher, baker, and candle-maker.

Equality, all of US having the same rights ... not more, not less.

Equitable laws that allow all of us to achieve our best.

Simple idea.

Apparently complex in realization.

The only reason I even mention being Bisexual is because people always come at me with a "You don't know how they feel" argument. Anne was saying I don't know how it feels. I'm sorry but I am "they". Within the LGBT community, there is a good amount of people who are vicious to bisexuals as well, so I'm even ostracized fin my own "support" groups lol. I know I'm supposed to want their acceptance, but I'm not all that broken up over assholes not accepting me.

Saying my personal views don't matter is non sense. I belong to the group being effected here. No one's opinion matters more. The voice of outrage is always the loudest, and it gets the most validation, I'm simply trying to stand up for my perspective in hopes that other people take it on, because i think it's more healthy. A few people on ATS have dismissed me as a troll, but none have disputed my approach.

If I owned a business everyone would be welcome, so I'm not fighting for some need to discriminate, I'm just not in favor of the current arguments being made. I love debates, Boycotts are great, I have several business I don't support, I really miss chick-fil-a's Lemonade, but I worry about people who smother themselves in their outrage. I may sound like a robot, but I bet I'm in a better place than many activists.

a reply to: mahatche

No one, particularly not me or Annee is trying to take your "voice" away.

Or tell you that your personal opinion don't matter here in this discussion. (She didn't say that by the way, go back and read.)

What happens in these threads though, is that we all slap our opinions down and then try to slap each others down page after page after page the same arguments the same posters ... same non-conclusions.

It's not about what degrees that any of us agree or disagree with whatever the cause celebre of the day is.

The fundamental question here is about equality which unlike many things is a binary measure: it either exists or it doesn't.

I'm sorry you don't see that, or that you think we're responding to you on a personal level as an individual.

Besides that, Annee may be saying something totally different. I tried to help, but I may be way off base.

Best, Mahatche. No personal affronts intended here on my part anywho.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mahatche

No one, particularly not me or Annee is trying to take your "voice" away.

Or tell you that your personal opinion don't matter here in this discussion. (She didn't say that by the way, go back and read.)

What happens in these threads though, is that we all slap our opinions down and then try to slap each others down page after page after page the same arguments the same posters ... same non-conclusions.

It's not about what degrees that any of us agree or disagree with whatever the cause celebre of the day is.

The fundamental question here is about equality which unlike many things is a binary measure: it either exists or it doesn't.

I'm sorry you don't see that, or that you think we're responding to you on a personal level as an individual.

Besides that, Annee may be saying something totally different. I tried to help, but I may be way off base.

Best, Mahatche. No personal affronts intended here on my part anywho.

Do you think people who disagree with you have less of a right to own a business?

I think my view is a much more natural form of equality. Everyone has an equal chance to not shoot themselves in the foot. If the social paradigm shifts out of your favor, and you don't adapt you have an equal chance at failure. The gay support paradigm will shift regardless of small cake companies doing business. I'm all for informing people of discrimination, and boycotts are cool, but winning a philosophical debate is a lot harder when we start shutting down conversations. Plus I get much more joy out of watching someone willingly take down their bigot sign.

The only time I would favor this type of government intervention would be for something essential like health care. If you refuse to save a gay mans life, you're a monster, but if you don't want his money for his cake then you're an asshole, and good luck with your businesses survival in the modern world.

We had this really neat period where we forced people to take down their bigot signs. People started making whispers about our country being post-racial/sexual, I even seen some naive people trading candies and celebrating our victory. But it wasn't a real victory. Not everyone stopped being bigots. We only passed laws that forced them to hide.

People who don't know I like men make gay jokes to me all the time, and I honestly think some are funny. Sometimes I even entertain myself by prompting them to divulge their anti-gay views. My laughter has made a few homophobes comfortable enough to reminisce when it was OK to beat up gays, as if they miss it. They didn't realize I was laughing at them, but it was fun to observe. When you get over the need to be outraged, it's possible to gain some valuable insight into their scared little brains. It's kinda cute in a "oh he's a scared little guy" type of way.

I don't want to let these people hide anymore. Let them put up their signs, and let us have our discussions. They will lose any debate on morality. Maybe in the past it took more laws, but everyone wants to be a Facebook hero. It's becoming harder to be an asshole in the internet age. People will be challenged on their idiotic views like never before. Hiding allowed them to fall into groups of like minded people. Let them poke their heads back out for another round of discussions. They won't win.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mahatche

No, it's not about polio.

It IS about unfair discrimination.

Thank you. Exactly!

It's not about the individual. Its about EVERYONE being treated EQUALLY by a public business

I get the individual opinion. My mom refused for years to get a Special Handicap Parking placard. She's one of those: "someone else is worse off then me and needs it more". We had to force her to get it after she broke down with exhaustion grocery shopping. People who haven't been there don't understand it is not the disability itself, but the effects of the disability. Like exhaustion from pushing yourself too hard to be "normal" - - like everyone else.

And I am NOT being emotional. It is a real life experience I lived from age 5 on up.

Discrimination is discrimination. It doesn't matter what is being discriminated against.

NOTE: I needed to leave, to be away. 7 year olds still dye eggs

Yes, I will cry homophobia, regardless of religion.

The amount of homophobia in people of religion is STUNNING, no matter what the religion.

That's because Christianity, Islam, and Judaism ALL use the same book - the Old Testament - as the basis for their religion.

a reply to: babybunnies
Do you think they have a fear of homosexuals? I just don't think they approve of their lifestyle. The word homophobe or homophobia is an Illuminati MSM word to cast dispersion on all people who disagree with that lifestyle.

a reply to: Enochstask

Do you think they have a fear of homosexuals? I just don't think they approve of their lifestyle.

If they do not fear them then why do they care about them and their lifestyles and marriages. Think about it for a minute.

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: babybunnies
Do you think they have a fear of homosexuals? I just don't think they approve of their lifestyle. The word homophobe or homophobia is an Illuminati MSM word to cast dispersion on all people who disagree with that lifestyle.

Yes they fear them.

They think they are a sign of End Times and a vengeful God is going to destroy the world for a reboot.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

They don't fear pedophiles they just don't like that behavior, yet they care about what a pedophile does in their community and they are not called pedophobes. Think about it for a minute.

a reply to: Annee

I don't think so. I have been around some folks that just don't like the gay lifestyle and they never said it was because they feared them, they said it was because of their behavior.

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: Deaf Alien

They don't fear pedophiles they just don't like that behavior, yet they care about what a pedophile does in their community and they are not called pedophobes. Think about it for a minute.

Oh, I am definitely a Pedophobe.

Not a reasonable argument.

a reply to: Enochstask

LOL you brought up pedos again. We need a name for law like Godwin's Law for this.

They don't fear pedophiles

Yes they do silly.

a reply to: mahatche

Dude, what? Yes, people who disagree with me have the right to own a business.

I don't think there's a lot of difference between what you're saying and what I said.

As far as the rest of it, I'm a big ol southern boy that was a city slicker raised in the country.

Frankly, I've never had any trouble since I hit puberty with anyone thinking they can run over me for any reason.

Also, I'm not the flamboyant type. Nobody know's "I'm gay" unless they have a reason to.

So, I know about "passing" in society. Even when guys know I'm gay, they still tend to forget it and treat me like one of the "guys." Fortunately for them, some gay jokes are funny.

I also know all too well how the "gay community" treats folks who don't their perfect mold.

I know the kind of crap that gets foisted on bisexual folks. I'm sorry for the times that you have been mistreated for who you are.

I support my gay brothers and sisters, but that doesn't mean I like every single thing they do and say.

There is really only one legitimate purpose that government serves, and that is to sustain the infrastructure of society.

Part of that is to enforce fair and equitable laws.

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: Annee

I don't think so. I have been around some folks that just don't like the gay lifestyle and they never said it was because they feared them, they said it was because of their behavior.

What is a LIfestyle?

Do you like steak or cheeseburger? Truck or car? Urban or city? Suit or jeans? House or apt? White collar or blue collar? Rock or country?

What behavior? The stereotype the media focuses on? Or a married couple with children?

originally posted by: Enochstask
a reply to: Deaf Alien

They don't fear pedophiles they just don't like that behavior, yet they care about what a pedophile does in their community and they are not called pedophobes. Think about it for a minute.

Child sexual abuse is a crime and justifiably so by every single measure of what a crime is.

We have evolved socially over the last hundred years or so to realize that sexual orientation is not a crime and there's no reason for it to be. There are no automatic victims in a homosexual act, as there are in child sexual abuse and bestiality.

We are just beginning to evolve on gender identity. Again, no harm, no victim, no crime.

Another one. Maybe they should learn the law. Like you can't force someone to do something they don't do for everyone else.

You can't force a baker to write or decorate a cake that offends them.

Not the same as refusing to bake a standard cake in your catalog.

Florida Bakers Threatened After Refusing to Decorate Cake With Antigay Message

Supporters of a ranting evangelist are threatening employees of a bakery who refused to decorate a cake with "I Hate Gays."

www.advocate.com...
talkingpointsmemo.com...

If you want to deny someone service, that's YOUR RIGHT. Doesn't matter your religion or the fact you're running a business.

If someone won't serve you based on your lifestyle, tell them to piss off and take your business elsewhere.

Legislation DOES NOT need to get involved in this crap.

Grow some skin people... Oh booo hooohooo.... someone doesn't like the fact that you're queer. Who the hell cares????