Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

originally posted by: mOjOm
When this goes down we are going to see some "Holy Sh*t" go down.

Christian Leaders Promise Civil Disobedience If SCOTUS 'Legalizes' So-Called 'Gay Marriage'

I just hope that everyone is actually prepared for this. We're going to have our very own version of Religious Extremism right here in the old U.S of A. Not sure if they'll rank up there with Boko Haram and ISIS or not but it's looking like a very interesting future in store for everyone.

I just hope nobody decides to sell arms to both sides like they do everywhere else.

I've been saying this for a few years now.

As equality laws are passed and the radicals are backed into a corner they start to become more and more desperate to inflict their will on others, but the problem is that our governments are busy looking in another direction. Will the NSA be too busy checking up on every Muslim in the US to even notice a racial Christian Cult from Missouri loading up a van with fertilizer?

Just look at what's been happening in the US just over the last couple of months...

You have that nutty Duck Dynasty man ranting about Atheists being murdered in their homes while "God fearing men" rape and kill their families in front of them - to teach them a lesson.

You have Sandy Rios publicly calling for people to "Prepare for Martyrdom" at a conference if marriage for same sex couples is passed by the supreme court.

You have Dana Loesch commenting publicly that gay people could be stoned to death in the street if her right to discriminate against people as a "Christian" is hindered.

Then you have people like Jerry Boykin, saying that God's "Army" has to "fight the evil of gay rights".

Roy Moore publicly stated to a large crowd that he wonders if he'll give his life fighting gay marriage.

You have a bigot Lawyer in California writing a bill which directly calls for the mass execution of all LGBT people, and it gets a f-ing reading.

This is just a small example of the daily extremism we are seeing on the rise in the US, these are people making public statements to large audiences of other extremely ignorant and irrational "Christians". How long will it be before one of these thousands of people starts to distort their religious beliefs to justify murder?

This is exactly how it starts in other countries which descend into civil war over the religious delusions of one group of people. This has played out time and time again, with factions breaking away from the whole to act in the most disgusting ways, the most violent ways, toward other citizens not in their cult.

Humans are incredibly tribal animals, we find tribes in sports, in politics, in gender, in race, in sexuality, in economic standing... the most powerful of all these tribal addictions is religion. Wars are forever being fought for nothing more than imaginary friends and the imagined rights that affords one group to enslave another. This is absolutely no different.

We're already seeing the warping of Christian faith in the USA by these extremists, they are already skirting around the edges of making their religion a dangerous cult. The moment the first Christian got on a podium and started making statements about preparing for war, you have a problem.

If you look back to just one year, you see a couple of nutters making gross statements about LGBT rights, but you don't have anywhere near this level of violent preaching and incitement. Just within the last couple of months there has been an incredible rise in extremist Christian sentiment, and it's getting louder, and it's going unchallenged by the government.

People need to be paying attention here. This is going to end very badly. If there are a few thousand people in the US who have this kind of mental delusions about their religion, there are going to be groups within that willing to kill.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I think that Christian leader should fix his rectal-cranial inversion and understand that by forcing religious doctrine on individuals who are not a part of that religion opens the door for his "forced" conversion to Islam.

God the Christian right drives me nuts.

An unintended consequence of the gay rights agenda toward "equality" however is that Christians such as myself that do not identify overly strongly with one or another of the organized sects but still like to have a minister officiate at the major ceremonies in our lives are going to be pushed into finding and identifying with organized religion.

There have already been a number of churches who have taken their facilities and time off the table to the general public over fear of "equality" lawsuits should they be asked to service functions that do not fit within their tenants. That means that in order for me and mine to have a minister officiate, we will have to become members of a church.

I didn't think that was what the left as a whole wanted. Basically, we are being pushed into a corner and forced to circle our wagons because while everyone else wants "equality" there is not latitude for the idea that some people have differing points of view and belief on some things. We aren't trying to stop it. We are asking not to be forced to participate ourselves.

Gov. Pence is already starting to backtrack after the fallout from this bill -

“I support religious liberty, and I support this law,” Pence said in an exclusive interview. “But we are in discussions with legislative leaders this weekend to see if there’s a way to clarify the intent of the law.”

Gov. Mike Pence to push for clarification of ‘religious freedom’ law

This is really pretty baffling, he was told time and time again that this was a bad law, that it should not be signed. He was told by several business leaders that this would not fly with them, and he still did it! He ignored all the warnings and still passed this bill as it was, without any "clarification" needed, and against the will of so many Hoosiers too.

What did the fool expect to happen?

He claims that this is not about discrimination, but it most certainly and absolutely is. Within hours of passing it there were so-called "Christians" saying they would use this law to refuse to serve LGBT customers, all while refusing to give the name of their business, as though that could possibly remain secret once they turned away a gay customer.

Hoosiers should call for his resignation, he should be removed. He has directly damaged their state, their reputation, their businesses and their economic standing, through the passing of a bill which absolutely failed. If anyone else in any other business failed their employers so appallingly they would be fired.

This is going to be an interesting week. I expect we'll see an announcement about watering down this bill, but I doubt that will be the end of it. I don't think those against it will stop until the bill has been nullified, and I doubt he'll stay in his job either. Or at least I don't think he should be allowed to stay in his job.

a reply to: Rocker2013

So is it discriminatory when a doctor is asked to perform an abortion and says no? This is similar. A doctor can serve a person all they want but still refuse to perform some services over their own personal moral objections. There are laws on the books that allow that and protect the doctor.

originally posted by: ketsuko
An unintended consequence of the gay rights agenda toward "equality" however is that Christians such as myself that do not identify overly strongly with one or another of the organized sects but still like to have a minister officiate at the major ceremonies in our lives are going to be pushed into finding and identifying with organized religion.

There have already been a number of churches who have taken their facilities and time off the table to the general public over fear of "equality" lawsuits should they be asked to service functions that do not fit within their tenants. That means that in order for me and mine to have a minister officiate, we will have to become members of a church.

I didn't think that was what the left as a whole wanted. Basically, we are being pushed into a corner and forced to circle our wagons because while everyone else wants "equality" there is not latitude for the idea that some people have differing points of view and belief on some things. We aren't trying to stop it. We are asking not to be forced to participate ourselves.

No Church, at any time, under any legislation, has been "forced" to participate in same sex marriage.
This was the same argument the religious right wing have used in every country, including the UK, in an attempt to reject any movement on the issue.

It is a fact, a reality, that no single Church in the US or UK has ever been legally forced into supplying services to same sex couples.

And that "equality" you put in quotation marks, is exactly what the word means, it doesn't need to be in quotes at all.

When a group of citizens are not treated in the same way it is inequality. Equality is for all to be treated equally. It's really as simple as that.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Here is the truly baffling part.

In general businesses don't have to have any reason to deny service.
How are they going to know if someone is gay or not?
Federal appeals court, the 9th circuit actually, already ruled on an incident in their circuit where a business declined to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. The court said the business action was discrimination.
Passing a law that allows religious groups / people to discriminate is, in my opinion, tantamount to establishing an official religion by the government.

I would like to see an amendment added to that bill allowing businesses to deny service to people who are religious and belong to a church / mosque / Synagogue.

/ end sarcasm.

Then I would like to see them point out in their respective books where it says God AND the religious zealots get to pass judgment. Nothing like belonging to a religion whose purpose is to bring people together, have peace, watch out for one another while at the same time they have the Hitler 2.1 script running in the background that targets people in a manner that violates their most basic tenants.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
I would like to see an amendment added to that bill allowing businesses to deny service to people who are religious and belong to a church / mosque / Synagogue.

My reactionary self would like to see this too, but I know this would only lead to more problems for the state and the people who live there. It would become a free for all of personal bigotries and intolerance, and that doesn't serve anyone in the long run.

You've hit the nail on the head though, it's either all or nothing.

You either pass a bill allowing all businesses to pick and choose who they can serve based on their own nonsense, or you pass a bill preventing all from being able to do that - including Christians.

This can really only go one way in the end. Either there will be bills passed to allow anyone to be discriminated against under the notion of freedom of religion, in which case the state needs to define which religions are "valid" (thereby breaching the Constitution directly and implementing religious rule) or they reject the notion of discrimination against anyone entirely.

There is no half-measure here.

These states enacting these laws are digging themselves a massive hole, and they're going to need plenty more bills piled up to be able to climb out of it. Eventually it will all unravel and they will be forced to admit they f-ed up.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I would like to see an amendment added to that bill allowing businesses to deny service to people who are religious and belong to a church / mosque / Synagogue.

you were being so rational and then just fell off the deep end. are you suggesting that all christians, jews and muslims are in favor of that bill? it's statements such as yours that get the hitler 2.1 scripts running in the first place.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I love that video.
Never watched the show, but I've seen that plenty of times and it always gives me chills

a reply to: Rocker2013

Churches who rent their halls have been sued. So they have started making their facilities only available to members. The same goes for all their services.

Businesses that openly describe themselves as Christian based have been sued.

Businesses who have a policy of not renting rooms to couples who aren't married, regardless or gender or orientation, have been sued.

I see no reason why this pattern will not continue.

a reply to: undo

It was sarcasm...

I added that to that portion so it doesn't confuse anyone else. The comment about Hitler 2.1 is based on the laws they, Nazis, had in place that this law from Indiana essentially mimics.

To put it in perspective this kind of law reminds me of the movie "The Wave", from 1981. A high school teacher essentially sets up a mini 3rd Reich in his class without the kids even realizing its occurring because the kids argued in class it could never happen here.

You start passing laws like these and you are creating government sanctioned actions against a suspect class. Just like the Nuremberg Race laws.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I would like to see people able to do business how they please. If that means they don't want to allow patrons of certain groups ... OK. The market will correct for it one way or the other.

Of course, this isn't about not allowing gays. This about not forcing people to do things that force them to violate their personal morals. I can sell things or serve homosexuals all day. That's fine. I'll even sell them an extra large quantity of flowers, but please don't ask me to come arrange them at the ceremony. That asks me to participate in sacrilege for you for money.

a reply to: ketsuko

The 9th circuit court of appeals disagrees with you.

however I have to ask - How can this law be enforced? Are they going to ask every customer coming through the door what their sexual orientation is? Or will this spiral into an amendment requiring gays to register with the government and wear special identifications?

Separate bathrooms marked "normal" and "gays"?

originally posted by: ketsuko
I would like to see people able to do business how they please. If that means they don't want to allow patrons of certain groups ... OK. The market will correct for it one way or the other.

You know as well as I do that this would not work.
The moment any business puts a sign up saying "No Christians" you would be ranting about religious freedom and how you are under attack.

Do you also think that businesses should be able to put up signs saying "No Ni**ers"?

Really, I want to know if you would accept this in 2015.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Of course, this isn't about not allowing gays. This about not forcing people to do things that force them to violate their personal morals.

Ah, those "personal morals" again, the ones that conveniently allow them to cherry-pick what parts of their Bible they adhere to, while ignoring all the things that make their lives even the slightest bit more difficult.

You cannot possibly claim "religious morals" on one issue, while those same hypocrites ignore every single other demand of their "religious morals".

It's not "religious morals" to pick out the one thing allowing you to be a bigot toward LGBT people while ignoring the other demands of your holy book.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I see no reason why this pattern will not continue.

Despite all the evidence to show that it's not continuing, and the fact that it is law in the passing of same sex marriage that no religious group is forced to comply.

You can have whatever beliefs you want, that's not the problem.
The problem arrives when you then want to use you religious beliefs as a pathetic excuse to abuse other people - which is, by the way, against all teachings of your own damned religion!

originally posted by: Trihalo42
It's not about religion. It's people specifically attacking Christians. If a Jewish bakery in New York City didn't want to make a gay cake and told the people to "Get the # outta here!", nobody around would bat an eye. If a Muslim run bakery refused to do it, nobody would say a damn thing. If it was a bakery run by black people, nobody would say anything for fear of looking "racist" and "oppressing the black man". It's not about religious discrimination. It's about attacking white Christians because it's the popular thing to do.

People pick out some small town Christian thing run by white people and use that as some moral crusade. The reason they attack Christians is because Christians are supposed to be all peaceful and "turn the other cheek". Soon as a Christian fights back, people attack them for "Not being real Christians", which is the same as saying, "Hey! You're not supposed to fight back! You're supposed to be all peace and love and let me attack you so I feel special!". It's the same as PETA attacking old ladies in furs instead of bikers in leather. Just a bunch of loud cowardly idealistic hippies trying to get a high off "making the world a better place" by attacking others and trying to drive people out of business.

And the whole thing about comparing homosexuals to racism and such is idiotic. Homosexuality is a sexual preference. Homosexuality is not a race, religion, or anything else but a sexual preference. Bestiality and BDSM are no different than homosexuality. It's a sexual preference. If we're going to have "gay pride" parades we need to have Bestiality and BDSM parades. It's only fair.

And as for people accepting homosexuality, one grown man shoving his johnson up another grown man's ass will never be seen as "normal". No matter how many idealistic hippies try to act all "enlightened". Just let some fat hairy gay guy start flirting with them and we'll see how long that pro-gay mentality lasts. It's all about "moral superiority" till some fat guy starts rubbing your balls and telling you "You smell pretty".

These people are nothing but pawns of government propagandists. Never mind people dying in other countries. Never mind the complete lack of spy satellite evidence over Ukraine, despite our spy satellites being able to see you taking a piss in your back yard. Never mind the spread of Ebola, including the recent announcement by Guinea that they have another Ebola emergency. Never mind that the European Union's collective economy is trashed. Never mind the unemployment levels and lack of economic growth in the States. Never mind that even the UK is backing a China based world bank that further removes economic power from the States. Lets all have a big media frenzy over some white Christians not wanting to make a faggot cake! Because that's how you keep the sheeple from noticing what you're really doing.

Gee...lot of specifics going on here...you spend a lot of time thinking about this kind of stuff? Do you kind of like how it makes you feel? Big hairy guys and stuff?

a reply to: ketsuko

Nobody is going to force you to get gay married, attend a gay marriage, or participate in gay sex acts. Stop it with the panic.

LOL this is going to work out well for the Bigots.
Signs going up in Indiana Saying no to biggotry.

a reply to: nikkib0421

we'll be alright without you nikki