Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Actually a 1998 NYTimes article seems to suggest that a scientific study of DNA has produced results that prove Jefferson fathered children through his slave Sally Hemings...

So it is quite plausible that was an illicit affair outside of his marriage.

Saucy Source...
www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well education is the most effective when it is employed for the children. Their minds are malleable enough that they can discard bad habits and data easier than adults. The saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is very apt. This is why people tend to get more conservative as they get older. They become established in their ways and don't want to change them if shown to be wrong.

Basically what I am saying is that prison is the answer for people like Al'Baghdadi, but schools and education should be the answer for his children. If there can come a time where the public is well educated enough to not need prisons anymore, that would be a great day. But as it stands that isn't the case because humans still like to teach through fear and intimidation.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

That article has mostly been refuted with new testing in the book I cited earlier.

Also, any relations with Sally Hemmings would have taken place AFTER Jefferson's wife passed, Hemmings was 9 at the time.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: Entreri06

Does anyone read the OP?

I love science, it makes life so much better.

How are you feeling about our leadership and their integrity? Do you believe our founding fathers were good people? Do you think their faith played a role in that?

As some one posted earlier, the founding fathers were just men. As grey area as anyone else. They were mostly slavers, so in no way were they awsome human beings.


So how do you feel about the fact untile 100 years ago the church married 14 year old children to grown men for , hell IDK all of civilized human history???

originally posted by: lambs to lions


The further we've gotten from the religion induced morality of our founding fathers, the worse off our government and nation have become. Even though many of them were deists, they still lived by principles that they were willing to die for. Those principles came from the belief in a supreme being and a belief in an ultimate moral accountability. There were actually politicians that were good people in those days.

However, these days religion is losing the battle in the hearts and minds of our citizens. Sure, many claim to be religious, but show me 10 who claimed to be Christians and I'll show you 9 hypocritical imposters.

I do believe in a separation of church and state. I believe in gay rights, I believe in abortion in some cases, I support legal immigration, and I'm a gun owner that supports the right to bear arms and I don't care if they are practical firearms or not.

My point isn't that religion should be forced upon the nation through government. My point, is that with the degration of religion and those that truly had courage of conviction, the country has lost it's way.

True, we don't need radicals and extremists burning 'witches' and certainly don't need a superiority complex used as an excuse for racial or sexual discrimination. However, we sure could use some real men and women that believe in the golden rule and who keep the Ten Commandments.

I'm sure there will be snarky responses that point out how backwards and ignorant the religious are. I'm fully aware of the many wonderful benefits of a scientific mind as well...

We have lost the moral high ground in this country because we have lost morality. Most leaders are fake and don't live by any sort of honor code. The ones claiming to he religious are only doing so to appease conservative voters. You can tell me how religion is the worst thing ever (I agree radicals are) but it's becoming obvious what the impact of a lack of Christian ideals is doing in this country.

Finally, some of you will say you don't need to believe in God to be moral. In theory you would be right. But, it's not working out so far, and it's only getting worse.

***im on my iphone, I apologize for grammatical mistakes I may have missed

I agree with you mostly. The culture is now basically "I'll decide what's right for me. You cannot judge me with your morals". So there is no center of morality. If some guy think it's okay for him to start a club for gay men who like boys than they can, and you cannot judge them.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
I agree with you mostly. The culture is now basically "I'll decide what's right for me. You cannot judge me with your morals". So there is no center of morality. If some guy think it's okay for him to start a club for gay men who like boys than they can, and you cannot judge them.

Uh... Yes you can, because pedophilia is illegal. Even the homosexual kind.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Nice one, I wasn't too sure which is why I said "suggested" rather than it definitely happened.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh for children definitely, that is the case.
I wouldn't suggest otherwise in the case of the young.



It's once a certain age has been reached & the mindset is ingrained too deeply into the psyche that it cannot be re-educated or unwashed, so to speak.



Prison, imo, is another moral issue that divides people...

I think if there is a crime worthy of caging a person up, then it warrants a death sentence anyways...
Where as if it doesn't warrant a death sentence, I'm of the belief that it doesn't warrant prison time either...


I prefer the idea of rehabilitation for certain imprisonable offences...

Others, meh, we don't need to pay for their long lives with meals everyday and a roof while young mothers sell their bodies to pay the rent so their children have a home.



Again, a conundrum to me.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think prison is reserved for the ones who participate in victim crimes. Victim-less crimes shouldn't exist. Also prison should be a rehabilitation center (education again). It shouldn't just be a cage where we lock away our undesirables. We should strive to educate the inmates and correct their errant behaviors.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Agreed and that's my point. The OP says that the country was more moral in it's beginnings because the founding fathers were so moral. They may been moral in theory, but not in action. The good thing they did was put that theory into the constitution, so we can go to it when we need to make sure everyone has equal rights. But that happened long after the founding fathers were gone. The moral treatment of everyone certainly didn't happen while they were here. We do have them to thank for what they put into our founding documents though, so I give them credit for that.

a reply to: lambs to lions

Christianity is about control, is about faith, and is antithetical to a free prosperous society. Get over it. Most people have no problem believing in something, but structuring our laws around a

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Calalini
What morals do you exactly think we are getting away from?

I have nothing to say about so-called Golden rules, but rather instinctual, genetic morality. The basics, anyway. Cooperation. Self preservation. Yes, I think the creatures that call themselves 'wise men', have certainly learned enough that they should be ashamed that they have forgotten that self-preservation does not include destroying themselves and wiping away the natural environment in the process. We've watched many civs already go thru this cycle, and what did we learn: nothing.

The bible teaches the opposite of this, of course, which is why I wouldn't wipe my butt with one, even now. It's morally abject and embarrassing as a means of teaching correct behavior.

I think humankind is naturally violent and narcissistic. We're a plague on the planet really. No lack of religion or spirituality will change that. However, we could stop embracing fantasy and accept certain axioms about our condition, learn from it, and excel in such a way that we could surpass our faults. We are what we are, though. So I have my doubts...

originally posted by: jjkenobi

I agree with you mostly. The culture is now basically "I'll decide what's right for me. You cannot judge me with your morals". So there is no center of morality. If some guy think it's okay for him to start a club for gay men who like boys than they can, and you cannot judge them.

I think as a culture we are much more concerned about the underdog victims then we ever used to be. There was a LOT more victimization 200 years ago that wouldn't be tolerated today.

Doing something for the good of others with zero material benefit to oneself has no place in this world devoid of instruction to do so.
People do all sorts of things just to make themselves feel good, but equating doing good to others with feeling good is discouraged as being illogical and contrary to natural selection theory.
This culture enjoys watching Kardashians be self indulgent to the extreme because it reflects the selfish desires that religion used to hold at bay. Sin is on the loose.

a reply to: lambs to lions

It's like when someone is sexually repressed their whole lives finally lashes out by becoming a slut. The cause of this is the repression.

a reply to: Calalini

You don't appear to have a grasp of what morals you think we should practice and which ones we shouldn't. You have this idea that we need to be moral, but don't appear to have a definition for what that means exactly. The golden rule from the bible is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." To me that is the simplest and best piece of moral advice you can give. Be nice to others because you want them to be nice to you back. Everything else that centers around morals is useless baggage (this includes the rest of the bible).

a reply to: kaylaluv

To be honest, the OP is 100% wrong. America is more moral than ever as a country. We've extended freedoms to more people than ever, violent crime has been decreasing for 20 years, and we tolerate more differences than ever before. We've overcome much of the dark actions of our forefathers and strive not to be like them in that regard. Victimless crimes are finally starting to be shown for the BS that they are (misguided morality).

The decadent television culture that Christians like to opine is stupid. Who is anyone else to talk down on someone else's hobbies and interests? So the majority of America has shallow tastes. Why is that considered immoral to begin with?

Define a "slut". What would you call a person who was openly sexual for their entire adult lives? Are they still a "slut" if they were never repressed? Morality has nothing to do with how much sex a person does or doesn't want to have.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: liejunkie01

You don't. I know some great people who are not religious. But, I think that overall, the belief in a higher power who demands morality was a great thing for those in this country with the power over the populous. Power corrupts, and greed has eaten up many. I think a strong belief system helps to keep men on the straight and narrow. Many of out founding fathers made human mistakes, but many of those men were also men if conviction and that is what made this country great.

There has never been a time where this country was ran by "moral" men. Politicians have been the same from it's inception and beyond. What the founding fathers created was not born as much out of religious beliefs and morals as it was out of economic self interest and philosophical idealism. We don't need a higher power to achieve greatness, we need to eliminate the cost of running a political campaign. Until then we will continue to be ruled by the new lords of the land that dominate the political process.

I have read the writings of many Romans from Caesar's time that lamented the failing morals of their day.

I've read the writings of Romans from 300 years after Caesar, that lamented the failing morals since Caesar's day.

This same trend is found throughout all history. The Greeks lamented the Golden Age, as did the Brahmans of India.

Here is my position: as people age, they remember the days of their youth within a golden light.

The fact is, within reasonable boundaries, things are as good and bad as they ever were, and far, far better for many.

Christians inherited the attitude of the Romans and the Greeks, the world is always "fallen" from some previous grace.