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Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

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posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker



Perhaps more accurate would be ,the 'no moral code' goal or no moral code, 'ideal'.


But there is a goal in morality or otherwise there wouldn't be morality.

What is the goal in morality? To survive and cooperate with other people in society of course. To improve and contribute and grow in a society.

It does not matter what individual's opinions are. Morality is the optimal way to ensure the society thrives.

Even sociopaths (with no emotions, no empathy, no morals) understand this.




posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:16 AM
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a reply to: lambs to lions

Religion does not have a Monopoly on Morality , we have All had it within ourselves since we became Self Aware as young Children . Some people have retained it into Adulthood , and others have cast it to the Way Side as a Burden they just cannot seem to bare when it comes to the SELF...................;(



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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originally posted by: projectbane

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: projectbane

No, what you just said was the dumbest thing ever. Christian values are stupid? Grow up. Yeah, all that charity work and feeding the poor is just ridiculous. Yeah yeah, and believing in honesty is the worst.



Really? Christian values are good? Obviously you are a christian and therefore it makes and renders your view as pointless because you have been brainwashed and are biased.

.


What a logical stupidity and hypocrisy on your part. You are out of the discussion as well for being obviously bigoted and brainwashed then.
edit on 28-2-2015 by Logarock because: n



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:51 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. There is no need to be angry though, this is just a conversation. Many of you seem angry. Now, i want to address a few misconceptions. Perhaps I was lacking in clarity when I wrote the OP.

1. I never mentioned, nor do I believe in forcing any religion on anyone.

2. Slavery is not a Christian ideal. However, Christian ideals ultimately overcame the ignorance of slavery. Hence, a majority of freed slaves accepted Christianity. Christians are not Jesus, they whither when compared to Him. Every time someone uses an example of a Christian doing something horrible as a reason to trash Christianity they are being lazy. Christianity is a faith, not a person. People commit to it at various efforts.

3. Christians have no right or calling to judge homosexuality, many believers have fallen in to that trap. Lucifer is smiling, he loves the divide and conquer strategy.

4. Men have committed atrocities in the name of religion, those were the mistakes of men...not orders of divinity.

5. I merely suggested that our founding fathers found benefit in faith, many of them displayed almost supernatural courage, foresight, conviction, and selflessness. I believe they benefited from their beliefs, and it kept them steadfast.

6. I do believe we are witnessing a time of mass betrayal, deceit, and greed and to me personally, I think it goes hand in hand with no faith in anything other than the almighty US Dollar.
edit on 28-2-2015 by lambs to lions because: Add



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: th3dudeabides

How is Christianity about control? From my perspective it's about freedom to make choices. The right choices can lead to a fulfilled life. No one is forcing me or controlling me. I found my faith through several years of asking many questions, I haven't been brainwashed or indoctrinated...nor am I a member of a Christian church.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:01 AM
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a reply to: Entreri06

Men are not bad or good, they can be either in any given moment. That is the beauty of free will. So, no the founding fathers were not to be worshipped. What they were ultimately able to achieve, however, should be admired.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:03 AM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

I agree to an extent. I believe our souls are born with innate wisdom concerning right and wrong.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: lambs to lions



2. Slavery is not a Christian ideal. However, Christian ideals ultimately overcame the ignorance of slavery. Hence, a majority of freed slaves accepted Christianity.


It was Christians indeed who started and supported slavery in the first place. I'll grant you that some Christians did try to free slaves and end slavery but so did many other groups.



4. Men have committed atrocities in the name of religion, those were the mistakes of men...not orders of divinity.


In the bible it says that men have committed those under orders of divinity.

The other points you made... you'll have no arguments from me



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:06 AM
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Bahahahahahajahajajaj



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:06 AM
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originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

That's a silly response. Are you suggesting that somehow Christian ideals support child abuse and rape? It is those that falsly "claim" to be religious that act in that manner. Thus, connecting the idea that the religious are all hypocritical. The reality is that today most religious are full of $&@!. That's my point, there is no true blue keepers of moral principle.


Well in a nutshell... yes.

Along with putting to death people for adultery, being gay, theft, non-belief etc, etc...

Not a lot of difference between true Christianity and Islam I'm afraid.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

There is two sides to a coin. My wife teaches at a Catholic School. I see firsthand the volunteer work and charity that is extended to the community by a handful of hard working believers in charitable acts. Many are dedicated to a tireless level.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

I get what your saying. Actually, Id say it matters very much what individual's opinions are. That is what is the target of the groups I mentioned, from 'behavioral modification', to indoctrination in our school systems, our entertainment levels, on and on. Change opinions on moral codes, you've change the 'worth' or deference accorded those moral codes.

Besides, even if sociopaths 'understand' this does not exclude the goal to remove that moral code. Indeed, it makes more sense that they do understand it....



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:08 AM
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a reply to: lambs to lions

He is talking about Christian Fundamentalists trying to control our nation. They tried to pass laws based on the Old Testament laws. Thank God they managed to have only one or two laws passed instead of so many laws.
edit on 2/28/2015 by Deaf Alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:20 AM
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a reply to: BobaFettish

People have wrongly used their beliefs to do horrible things, the boneheads over at Westboro do it all the time.

The Old Testament isn't meant for us, or our time. Jesus wasn't about killing non believers. He was about love. He told us in plain words how we should live. The problem is man is a complete mess and humanity is in it's infancy. Perhaps the parable concerning the garden of Eden has some importance. Perhaps, men were not ready for such knowledge and needed time to grow and develop first. Now, we are learning the hard way. Peace.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

Hey Alien, my response above to Boba was also partly a response to you.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

I agree Religion doesn't have a monopoly on Morals. However, it's about the only venue that's still outside the control or direct influence of Governments.

Even science-more accurately, technocrats(?)- is controlled by who finances what research.

The massive weapons development, GMOs, changes to quality of our foods, et al. point to the 'limitations' that exist in that sphere as well.

Once again, there is no significant addition to mankind in the area of morals by science-or the quasi-sciences- whatsoever.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

There is two sides to a coin. My wife teaches at a Catholic School. I see firsthand the volunteer work and charity that is extended to the community by a handful of hard working believers in charitable acts. Many are dedicated to a tireless level.


Seriously if you banished religion today, these people would be doing the same work.

You do not seem to realize that the work given from such people does NOT have anything to do with glorifying the God you claim exists.... but can be a testament TO ANYTHING, if it does exist.

I see more done, by NON-Christians where I am, that mix perfectly with the Christian groups as well.

Going to have to face a reality soon, your belief system harbors itself as the bastion of truth, when none is really found there.

It only knows what it knows, and controls how it does by matching itself up to other control sets that are as equally or more flawed.

I have been in, around, every kind of church, involved in every sort of ministry, and I watch as those IN the ministry slowly become farther from the old tired mantras, very refreshing, soon they will all realize what I have always known, Christianity is the last COVER that holds back the truth we must peel off.

Until it is laid to rest, you will feel the everlasting pressure of defeat squeezing harder and harder, you do not seem to be able to see, that you cannot get anywhere near the God you think you follow, because of the very beliefs themselves.

But keep marching soldier!!!!

Be as INFANT-ry tirelessly forged into inanimate objects that actually believe they have served some real purpose! and revel in the facts that you thought you were at the top of the game!



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: MrInquisitive
Indeed, 'Murica has been going downhill ever since it outlawed that most Christian of values: slavery. And all hope was lost after anti-miscegenation bills were ruled unconstutional.

You religionists with your delusional self-righteousness and claims of moral superiority are one the most repugnant groups in the US.




It was our christian values and virtue that saved the union and ended slavery. We know that the south carried on in its way after the war but we cant talk about christianity in isolation as you do and as is popular with these agenda driven historical squinting. Never any talk about Brown who thought he was the sword of the Lord to end slavery, underground railroad, all the christian northern soldiers that were killed..... Stuff like that.


Here are some of your Bible verses for you regarding slavery:




However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)






If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)






When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)






When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)






Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)[i/]





In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.


The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)



Hmm, quoting from your own good book I have shown that slavery was tolerated and in fact legitimized and codified by the Bible, the very infernal codex from which all Christian values and teachings come. I've quote both from the Old and New Testaments, so don't give us any of that tired argument "but that is from the Old Testament" crap; it won't cut it.

But am I surprised that an X-stian would either be so ignorant and/or so mendacious as to claim that slavery was abolished because of Christian values? Heck no, that's how you X-stians roll.


The Enlightenment and the values it nurtured were what resulted in the end of slavery. That X-stians would take credit for it just shows what unscrupulous and prevaricating foul creatures they are. You, @Logarock, have borne false witness, which is a damnable sin according to your religion, last time I checked. I only wish Christian mythology were true, because the vast majority of you so-called Christians would be facing an eternity of fire and brimstone, and punishment for your many sins and hypocrisy.

Which leads me to the ultimate question when discussing X-stian theology: from the way Christians behave, it would seem that Satan has bamboozled them into thinking that he is God, and that that the real God (if there is one) is Satan. The so-called "God" of the Old Testament is obviously a hateful and blood thirsty powerful being, who by any reasonable standard is a megalomaniacal psychopath that lives for genocide and ethnic cleansing. No thanks, I'll pass on worshipping your sick and violent god.

And if you X-stians are hurt by what I have to say, then stop it with these G.D. religious threads claiming moral superiority over others, and even more so stop it with your outright falsehoods regarding history and what your unholy book has to say on matters, and what your religion preaches on the subject. It's a bunch of hypocritical crap, and I for one will no silently stand by and let you get away with your lies. The KKK professes to be a Christian organization, so how can anyone honestly claim that Christian values were responsible for ending slavery? Are you also saying that Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis, along with millions of other Southern secessionists (i.e. traitors to their country), weren't Christians? Give me an freak'n break.

And please, don't bring up Catholicism, OP, a religion that has institutionalized pedophilia, and systematically protected its buggering priests from facing secular justice for their heinous crime of wanton child raping and molestation, in your case for Christian values.

Most infuriating of all, it is an insult to all people of all other religions and creeds to say that it is the loss of Christian induced values that is ruining this country. That implies that the moral values of all other faiths are inferior. Absolutely disgusting. You insult me and billions of other human beings. Shame on you. Shame, I say, SHAME!
edit on 28-2-2015 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 06:04 AM
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The USA is a nation founded on slavery. Most of the founding fathers owned slaves. Minorities didn't even have full rights in the country until a scant 50 years ago. Why would we ever want to go back to the good old days of "Christian morality"?



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: lambs to lions

Star and flag you couldn't be more right

But think it is too late to warn people or to turn this boat around

United States fate is sealed




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