Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

I think an argument can be made that someone who requires the church to dictate to them what is right and wrong, might have a flawed moral foundation to begin with.

"because the bible tells me so" ...is always a little bit of a head scratcher to me. If you require the bible to differentiate between right and wrong, then you might have something missing within you IMO.

Not knocking religion....just the premise that religion is a necessary pre-requisite for morality.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: liejunkie01

I think a strong belief system helps to keep men on the straight and narrow.

It also drives people to commit horrendous acts of violence.

I would hope people do not rely solely on religious doctrine for their moral foundation.

A belief system that is premised in a personal sense of what is right and wrong would seem less vulnerable to moral dangers afforded by various interpretations of religious texts.

a reply to: Atsbhct

Christian morality does. Even catholic priests lash out against their repression.

a reply to: liejunkie01

Absolutely not, athiests love their children without needing a set of rules imposed on them

Religion is not the problem here because religion is just one of the tools that the TPTB use to control and enslave humans. Religion takes away independent thought by telling us what to think, and then scaring us by telling us if we don't obey we go to hell or whatever other nonsense it spews.

The Vatican is one example of corruption beyond belief and they are also running scared; which is why they made Francis pope and are allowing him to implement change into a barbaric and archaic religion that no longer serves it's purpose with a population that is awakening.

I do like that you have noticed a drastic chance in today's society though OP; we need more people to notice. While I do not agree that religion is the answer, I believe that there are many answers that can help us today in a more modern and realistic way. Personal awareness and mindfulness does wonders, and if we can start teaching that to our kids at a young age we can start making positive changes for the future.

originally posted by: lambs to lions


The further we've gotten from the religion induced morality of our founding fathers, the worse off our government and nation have become.

Please offer some evidence to show that people are worse off with the decline of religious conviction.

And no, I don't mean people being allowed to have sex, women being permitted to wear short skirts, or gay people to marry. I mean THINGS THAT ACTUALLY AFFECT YOU.

How is your life any worse off through the actions of others, directly in relation to the decline of religion?

If you want to claim that the decline of a cult is the reason for all the ills in the world, or in your country, you need to offer more than simplistic notions of how you wish you could control the freedoms of other free people.

You can't have it both ways, either you agree that people have a right to live their lives as they wish without any religion dictating morality, or you believe in a theocratic state where one religious group of people inflicts their religious views onto society.

And BTW, the latter is something ISIS wants to do right now.

I can see where you are coming from however I kinda disagree. Although maybe your right. I think that we have gone away from simple philosophical and religious principles like "We are all one". People are too quick to judgement and violence. and there are so many more excellent principles to live by.
These are not however the sole domain of christianity OR religion! The principles that you are talking about should be realizations of life taught to everybody without the bias (or bad press) of religion...

originally posted by: lambs to lions

Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

Just replace the word "Christianity" with Religion, and that will cover the full spectrum.

Although some type of moral foundation is healthy, force feeding by indoctrination is not the way.

DISCLAIMER: I read the OP, but not any of the replies, so if my post is redundant based on other replies I apologize.

I take issue with the suggestion that one must have religion in order to have conviction, or the willingness to act upon said conviction. Politically I am very similar to the OP, excepting that I am atheist. I would gladly give my life in defense of the U.S. if so called upon to do so, even though I'm ex-pat I still love my country very much.

Chistian morality has lead to some of the darkest deeds done in history only to matched by other religions. If anything Chistianity has long had to adapt and change to match modern morality. When people decided slavery was wrong, Christianity had to change, when people decided men did not own women Christianity changed, when people decided killing others just because they refused to convert Christianity changed, and now people gain more moral dealing with equality Christianty will again change. Also how is America being destroyed again? And let us stick to history and facts and not some fanciful view of reality.

You are making way too many assumptions. Particularly about the “founding fathers.” You also have a pretty weak grasp of the history of this country, the true history of this country, not what you have been told. Look back. this country has not been all that good to not only it’s citizens who didn’t belong to the upscale power structure, but to other countries inhabited by lesser people. No I think you might want to do a little history search and get another take on reality.

Your comments to me seem as though you are just making up stories about the past. Religion has always been corrupted and as to courage of convictions, the neo-cons, neo-liberalists , even the dominionists are unyieldingly dedicated to their convictions.

No the reason The United States no longer seems to have any moral authority is because the rest of the world is onto us. We here in this country wanted to believe our superior living standards were the result of our high moral standards. First of all our moral standards weren’t all that high, and the good life it turns out was a result of a pretty nasty exploitation of countries with lesser humans.

Stop drinking the kool-aid. read a book. And not just the Good Book

You are absolutely correct! As atheism grows, so indeed does the false notion of subjective morality. This is the very root of all our Nation's problems. As the majority of posters on this very thread have shown, most of the arguments in opposition to your stated belief do not consist of rational discussion or critiques. They simply just do not like Christianity and spout more hate and irrelevant statements that supposedly strengthen their arguments, ironically helping yours. This should not be surprising though, as it is hard to say anything negative about living one's life by what is now known commonly as the "Golden Rule." Which is the easiest and most effective way of summing up the ideals and commandments taught by the Bible. So, people try to attack you for supposedly wanting a theocracy. Something that was not at all mentioned or even alluded to in the original post. Or they try to make connnections where none exist, the most blatant and never ending ones being based on the premise that the sins of Catholicism (not Christianity) at the highest echelons of power in such events as the Crusades or the Inquisition are somehow the result of following the teachings of Christ or following the 10 Commandments. Which we all know is certainly not the case because both Jews and fundamentalist Christians were also victimized in such times. The only common thread that can be found here is how humanity is so inclined to either invent, twist, or ignore evidence or truths to support their original biases, emotions, or desires at the expense of the truth. So, when we ignore all the petty distractions and misdirection one can easily come to a very logical and sound conclusion. Back when a greater portion of society personally felt that their character and conduct was accountable unto God, having eternal consequences or rewards. It is obvious that people would have done their best to lead a righeous life and not simply go the easiest path. When a society is made up of individuals that hold such ideals sacred, it will clearly have a resounding impact on the given society and population on all levels and aspects. As this is not the same as a governing body legislating morals, but an inward desire and goal of the individual itself to become honest, hardworking, charitable, loving, and longsuffering. Take such motivations and beliefs away and replace it with today's "do what thou wilt," and you end up with much of the confusion and chaos we have today.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: lambs to lions

I do agree with you.

I am not christian. I believe in the same things you stated. But, I also believe that the ten commandments are an excellent TOOL (emphasis added to underscore the idea that I see it as a tool, not meant to be snarky) for use in living in a society.

How is the first Commandment a an excellent tool for living in society? By living in society, I assume you mean enjoying life peacefully and cooperatively. If not, define that which you mean by living in society.

The loss of Christian morality destroying America IS BOTH TRUE AND FALSE. A belief system rooted in values, character and morality is essential to nurture a healthy and safe civilization and allows humanity's creative potential and health. But it need not be a "Christian" belief system that brings one to that healthy value-base.

I would agree wholeheartedly, however, that a culture epitomizing greed, lust and shallow fear driven values comprises "ugly culture" and will reflect humanity at its worse. We are a species that needs values, legends and established cultural paths of great aspiration and achievement based on sound character. Without these high aspirations we become lower than the animals who function at least according to natural flow and harmony.

High Civiliization is not a given, but an achievable aspiration, an ideal which lives should be based-upon for our children and forebears alone, requiring hard effort and no small amount of love and courage.

I totally agree. I wonder if not having morals could be redefined? We know defenseless men, women, & children are being slaughtered across the ocean, yet we don't care enough to demand that the nations with the power to end it do so. You will have an easier time finding people to carry picket signs demanding late term abortions be a womens right, then you will asking to save them from slaughter in a country far away.

Young catholic women picketing the German Consulate at 17 Battery Place, NewYork, protesting against the religious persecution in Germany and urging the Jews to join them in their campaign

a reply to: hxc408

You are totally ignoring all the ways our society mistreated others since our nation's beginnings. You are ignoring how the Indians were treated, how blacks were treated, how women were treated, how indentured servants were treated, how children were treated. Of course there were small pockets of good people who didn't mistreat anyone, but society overall condoned this mistreatment at a time when Christianity was at its peak. In more modern time our society overall is not as fervently religious , and yet, look at all we have done to improve the mistreatment of others. It wasn't just because government legislated it - it was because the majority started to demand that people were treated better. Government simply responded to the majority.

Not being a particularly religious person (I am agnostic), I have no problem with the teachings of Christ. They make sense to me. They resonate with me. I don't need to go to church or pray or worship any god to be a good person and to try to treat everyone with dignity and respect and kindness - in other words, to treat people the way I would like to be treated. The Golden Rule goes back much further than Christ, in various forms, and not always relating to religion, but more a philosophical concept.

I believe that the horrible mistreatment of people in our past had nothing really to do with Christianity, so I don't blame religion. I think we have simply evolved over time to be more compassionate beings. I think that would have happened with or without religion. Whatever the reason, I'm glad that the majority no longer tolerates the lynching of blacks, or women not being treated as equals, or child labor, or spousal abuse, or shunning of gays, or even school bullies - all things that our society either condoned or at least "tolerated" in our nation's past. I think that's a definite improvement.

how many comments do I have to make before I can start a thread, this is ridiculous. I have 10. ho many do I need?

originally posted by: jtiest
how many comments do I have to make before I can start a thread, this is ridiculous. I have 10. ho many do I need?

i'll post another 20 comments here if necessary so that I might initiate a thread.

a reply to: Tangerine



If you truly cannot decide which of the two things you stated above should be attributed to what I said, perhaps you are being a bit anal in your reading.

Name a theocracy where women and children have been well-treated.

Hiya Tangerine- There once was and their "Rule Book" started out with: In the beginning was Adamu and Lilith, created from the same dirt...." Then Adamu wanted Lilith to do the dishes and iron His shirts. Lilith being an equal to Adam balked, it went rapidly down hill from there. Lilith ended up w/Samael

The new Rule Book. "In the beginning was Adam and Eve and Eve is created using Adam's rib (subservient).. basically making anyOne that squats to pee behind the 8-ball before the game begins..

Lambs to Lions: One of the reasons religion™ is in 'the crapper' is because it is patriarchal or based in "Yang". Mother Earth, a 'living being' has gone from 3rd chakra/dimension into the 4th. It is part/parcel of Her evolution. We are now knee deep into 'Yin, The Devine Feminine'...

What would the 'authenticity test' be like or will whomever just take them on their word? Because the discussion is about the US, why not the religion™ that WAS HERE when the "Settlers" came? It certainly was working for the Native Peoples, but here comes 'Whitey' with His religion™ and diseases. What if the "State Religion" isn't the one You pay/pray for? So when You type "Chris†ian" are the Mormons included?

Here is but One tribe of the aforementioned Native People's and their thoughts: "Religion™ is for people afraid of Hell, "Spirituality" is for people who've already been"... The Great Sioux Nation

namaste

P.S. Throwing out completely the old adage from Betty Polite "For polite conversation, One should refrain from talking about sex, politics and religion"...

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: Tangerine



If you truly cannot decide which of the two things you stated above should be attributed to what I said, perhaps you are being a bit anal in your reading.

You said you weren't a Christian but that the Ten Commandments were an excellent tool for use in living in society. I repeat my question: how is the first Commandment an excellent tool for use in living in society? Or have you just realized that you endorsed it and it might not be such a useful tool after all?