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Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

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posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 07:42 AM
a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't think there is much rational thought behind such an opinion outside of repeating media rhetoric. Neither the conservatives nor the progressives are destroying the country. What is destroying the country is the unwillingness for both sides of the political aisle to get together and compromise on anything. Each side's blatant stubbornness is contributing to the problem.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:45 AM

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: lambs to lions

You do realize that morality has nothing to do with religion? Right?

Morality is simple common sense.

No morality is far from common sense and is more subjective than what we will all have for dinner.

I think illegal immigrants should be allowed to enter a country because it's well known a majority are leaving behind a warzone or a cartel that would only endanger the lives of them and their families...

& I will always claim the moral high ground with such an argument...

Someone else will say but illegals just come for the welfare and if they don't like their government they should change it...

& they will always claim the moral high ground with such an argument...

So using your common sense, knowing both of these arguments are prevalent in immigration discussion...

What would Jesus do?

My common sense/morality says he would agree with me...

How about you?

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:48 AM
The thread premise is correct. I personally have seen all the BS in religions and spirituality I ever want to see, but I recognize that as religious influence in this country fades, so does a large part of the moral fabric. Sociopathy and narcissism is rising in our culture. However, we never needed religions to teach us instinctual behavior such as not killing others and harming our children. That's just genetics.

But without strict indoctrination of children, you see where the moral code is going in society. It should be obvious to anyone, even a devout atheist.

However, the moral code of the bible is corrupt. Most of the commandments have to do with worshipping their megalomaniac God, who, ironically, shows all the signs and attributes of the ultimate narcissist.

Hating people because of their sexual preferences, stoning children because they don't mind their parents, women should be silent and are little more than property to be bartered and sold...etc. How anyone can take this stoneage dreck seriously is beyond me, but I digress. I'm not a moralist. At least -not that kind-, that's for certain!

And of course, the alpha male religious leaders didn't want any one stealing their property or women. Again, natural behavior. Not surprising or shocking that those made the list, huh?

But unfortunately, for those who don't understand that universal good/evil paradigms are the apex of idealistic pseudo-intellectualism, this nonsense will continue. We need some sort of moral code, because we're basically Rome all over again.

This is what happens when people have too much freedom.

My advice: keep your kids out of public schools, homeschool them (the education system is the epitome of a joke), and find a more natural and healthy way to socialize them. Public schools turn kids into narcissistic monsters. That's where a lot of parents lose them and end up with out-of-control kids. Did you know when certain material was instituted into learning, such as Napoleon Hill and other positive reinforcement literature, kids showed dramatic improvement! Kids need to learn more about survival and be given the right tools to learn and grow in life... and they just don't get that with science, math, and english. And dare I say it? Most parents have no real idea how to raise an effective child. Zero. They basically copy how they were raised, without knowing any better, the good AND the bad.

Oh, and keep them away from the lies and 'feel good' crap of religions and spirituality. Do you want them to know the truth about life or stick their head in the sands so they can 'feel good'? Every one wants to 'feel good', it's what nearly all of us seek in life. But there's truth and there's BS, and I think we all know deep down, inside ourselves (subjectively), what is BS and what isn't.

Lastly, because it needs to be said: indoctrination of children into religious ideologies is plain immoral. You take away their personal choice, and do nothing more than brainwash them. God wants zombies after all. He doesn't want people who think and find him for themselves. He wants children who are brainwashed. Because if we weren't indoctrinating children, religions like Christianity would fade away in no time. Look at those kids in Isis. Three months kidnapped was all it took to indoctrinate them and turn them into killers. Never underestimate the true evil and power of religious indoctrination. Let's call it what it is: brainwashing. You don't have a moral leg to stand on if you force your kids to accept Jesus. Period.
edit on 27-2-2015 by Calalini because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:50 AM
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Morals tend to be agreed upon social stigmas that help a group of people, be it city, state, country work more cohesively for the benefit of the whole. The reason many of the same morals appear throughout different societies is because things like stealing, murdering, rape, etc all inhibit other's ability to contribute to the group. This creates the illusion of common sense, but it is more just that most humans can recognize what works to help society and what doesn't.

This is how two people can have the same exact morals but differ on all moral opinions.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:53 AM
a reply to: Calalini

We have a moral code. Most American crime is structured around the Golden Rule. All laws that are about personal responsibility (drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc) are in effect because they went against Christian morals.

What morals do you exactly think we are getting away from? You do know that many times increases in incidents of abuse or sociopathy probably has to do with an increase in population or better reporting measures correct?

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:54 AM
a reply to: lambs to lions

I do agree with you.

I am not christian. I believe in the same things you stated. But, I also believe that the ten commandments are an excellent TOOL (emphasis added to underscore the idea that I see it as a tool, not meant to be snarky) for use in living in a society.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:55 AM

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't think there is much rational thought behind such an opinion outside of repeating media rhetoric. Neither the conservatives nor the progressives are destroying the country. What is destroying the country is the unwillingness for both sides of the political aisle to get together and compromise on anything. Each side's blatant stubbornness is contributing to the problem.

There's a lot to be said for that point of view.

Also, two other real and seemingly insurmountable issues: ignorance and dishonesty.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:57 AM

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: Tangerine

Geez, once again I'm not talking about a theocracy. I'm talking about a country founded by men with integrity, who many happened to believe in a supreme being.
Now, immorality had run rampant in our government to the point where no man can be trusted. I think there is a correlation between this and a lack of true religion.

It could be any religion, or set of ideals. Men these days don't seem to live by any code except 'do as thou wilt'

Not to belabor your point sir. But many of the founding fathers were NOT Christians. In fact some were moral but without a belief in theism at all.

George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."


Whether they had morals and a sense of right and wrong is beyond debate. They were, and rightly so, some of the most respected men in our country's short history. But religious...not really.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:04 AM
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I agree for sure that with the extremes in life morality is common sense...

People who need God to understand that certain things like child abuse, murder & tyranny are wrong, need all the help they can get...
& maybe in the long term it's probably best to shove the God-Fearing aspect down those type of people's, throats just to dispel any immorality that may occur...

It is a tricky concept to breakdown overall...

As you said, our morals will be identical in some cases, in others we may be polar opposites...

But forcing that chasm to close up, that's not the way for society to proceed anyways...

So I'm against the whole premise of the OP, respectfully,. it's a slippery slope...

& I'm quite sure a majority of people in the States follow most of the Ten Commandments anyways...
Adding the ones relating to God to those who don't believe is gonna make no difference anyways...
Because the chances are that they do not kill, steal, lust for their neighbours wife or disrespect their parents anyways...

My previous post was not in relation to the ideology put forward, just a rebuttal to a complex situation from another poster.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:09 AM
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think shoving anything down someone's throat no matter how well intentioned the message is a bad idea. Forcing someone to do something just creates push back. We should instead be focusing on proper education to get people to want to do these things willingly.

Fear as a motivator towards actions needs to be discarded and left behind if we want to progress as a society. Fear just lets emotions cloud judgment and causes others to act terribly towards each other. If everyone is properly educated and doing these things willingly, then problems decrease and friction is easier to overcome.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:16 AM
I think it's a normal way of evolving, moving from religious ideals to scientific ideals. Think about it, one has visions or religious experiences and they are sent to psychiatrists and mental wardens, it is handled by science, not religion. Instead of there being some Church organized research or something to reward those who try to develop spiritually. It's those individuals that seek out spiritual experiences who could have renewed Christianity but they go seek out other religions and come back more confused or generally 'out of it' after being exposed to outside influences which might just not be very compatible with western thinking in society.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:17 AM

originally posted by: Tangerine

Well, let's see: Jefferson had slaves and cheated on his wife.

Jefferson indeed owned slaves but there is no evidence he had relations outside his marriage.

Please see The Intimate Lives of the Founding Fathers

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:18 AM
The responses in this thread are mind boggling.

I want to believe that people are smarter than this but apparently humans just aren't.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:19 AM

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

Whether they had morals and a sense of right and wrong is beyond debate. They were, and rightly so, some of the most respected men in our country's short history. But religious...not really.

See, here's the problem I have with the founding fathers: they had a good sense of right and wrong - in theory - but not so much in actions. Most of them were against slavery in theory, but did they actually do anything about it? No. Abigail Adams tried time and time again to get her husband to do something about equal rights for women. He might have agreed with her in theory, but he did nothing about it. I'm just not entirely convinced that there was a lot of integrity there. A lot of good thinking and theory, but true integrity comes from your actions, not just what you say.

The sad fact is, the founding fathers were more concerned about the rights of the white, property-owning male then they were about anyone else. If you weren't white, male, or didn't own property - they didn't care enough about you to actually do anything about your situation.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:19 AM
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can see your point for sure...

But there our morals divide us again...

I do believe some people are beyond education...

Do you honestly think you could sit in a room with Al'Baghdadi and educate him away from what he has seeded?

That's an extreme I know, but therein lies my original point that morality is less common sense, & more subjective depending on what we are trying to moralise.

I guess, my example is quite poor because even myself personally would go beyond both education and drilling the fear of God into Al'Baghdadi, and just empty a magazine into his face...

& then we get back to the morality of murder & retribution...

It's a conundrum, in my opinion.

edit on 27-2-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:20 AM

originally posted by: lambs to lions

The further we've gotten from the religion induced morality of our founding fathers, the worse off our government and nation have become. Even though many of them were deists, they still lived by principles that they were willing to die for. Those principles came from the belief in a supreme being and a belief in an ultimate moral accountability. There were actually politicians that were good people in those days.

However, these days religion is losing the battle in the hearts and minds of our citizens. Sure, many claim to be religious, but show me 10 who claimed to be Christians and I'll show you 9 hypocritical imposters.

I do believe in a separation of church and state. I believe in gay rights, I believe in abortion in some cases, I support legal immigration, and I'm a gun owner that supports the right to bear arms and I don't care if they are practical firearms or not.

My point isn't that religion should be forced upon the nation through government. My point, is that with the degration of religion and those that truly had courage of conviction, the country has lost it's way.

True, we don't need radicals and extremists burning 'witches' and certainly don't need a superiority complex used as an excuse for racial or sexual discrimination. However, we sure could use some real men and women that believe in the golden rule and who keep the Ten Commandments.

I'm sure there will be snarky responses that point out how backwards and ignorant the religious are. I'm fully aware of the many wonderful benefits of a scientific mind as well...

We have lost the moral high ground in this country because we have lost morality. Most leaders are fake and don't live by any sort of honor code. The ones claiming to he religious are only doing so to appease conservative voters. You can tell me how religion is the worst thing ever (I agree radicals are) but it's becoming obvious what the impact of a lack of Christian ideals is doing in this country.

Finally, some of you will say you don't need to believe in God to be moral. In theory you would be right. But, it's not working out so far, and it's only getting worse.

***im on my iphone, I apologize for grammatical mistakes I may have missed

I am glad to hear that you believe in gay rights, anti-racism, etc.

However, it is quite mythological that former times were more moral.

In fact, former times both in Europe and here when society was governed more by religion and not science were marked by extremes of poverty, racism, sexism, MORE violence, child labor, etc.

I know that it isn't a perfect causality, but in reality the Industrial Revolution and modern human rights and progressivism really didn't come until the somewhat anti-religion and pro-science Enlightenment.

Basically, the times when societies were and ARE governed by religion, including now in countries like Bangladesh or Yemen, things are regressive and do not progress very fast on a whole host of development variables.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:22 AM
Suppose America was founded by Trekkies. We are the Federation. Instead of Churches, we have conventions. Instead of prophets, we have episode writers.

Then Star Wars comes along. Suddenly, the Star Trek morality is on the defensive. Convention attendance declines. Ratings decline. Confusion, anxiety. Will the show be cancelled? Are we going to no longer be The Federation? Has The Federation become like The Empire - insofar as it is trying to oppress Jediism?

Mythology transforms over time. It mutates. It's inevitable. The gods of one age become the devils of the next.

"No one, as far as I know, has yet tried to compose into a single picture the new perspectives that have been opened in the fields of comparative symbolism, religion, mythology, and philosophy by the scholarship of recent years. The richly rewarded archaeological researches of the past few decades; astonishing clarifications, simplifications, and coordinations achieved by intensive studies in the spheres of philology, ethnology, philosophy, art history, folklore, and religion; fresh insights in psychological research; and the many priceless contributions to our science by the scholars, monks, and literary men of Asia, have combined to suggest a new image of the fundamental unity of the spiritual history of mankind.

Without straining beyond the treasuries of evidence already on hand in these widely scattered departments of our subject, therefore, but simply gathering from them the membra disjuncta of a unitary mythological science, I attempt in the following pages the first sketch of a natural history of the gods and heroes, such as in its final form should include in its purview all divine beings--not regarding any as sacrosanct or beyond its scientific domain.

For, as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods: there has been a history, an evolution, a series of mutations, governed by laws; and to show forth such laws is the proper aim of science."

-Joseph Campbell


edit on 684FridayuAmerica/ChicagoFebuFridayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:22 AM
a reply to: kaylaluv

The founding fathers weren't supermen. They were humans, complete with all the flaws that any other human of the day would have. Too many times we judge the character of a historic person using the morals of today. These people were products of their time that pushed forward a form of government that hadn't been seen for hundreds of years and making it work. Discovering that they had flaws should be no surprise. It shows that they weren't gods but humans just like us.

posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:22 AM

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: rickymouse

Well said. People have grown up in a sense, accepted differences. That has positively impacted humanity. I wonder though, what will we become once greed and hedonism completely takes over. The line between what is acceptable in society is blurred. Divorce is up. Adultery. Violent crime. Materialism. Rampant consumerism. It will all come crashing down. Not to mention the crazies in the ME that have gone the completely opposite direction.

Violent crime is down and dropping.... Adultery (if counted as cheating while married) is down... Oh and we no longer marry 13 year olds, which was 100 percent cool with all the Christian churches because of a "if she bleeds, she breeds" philosophy. Ahh the good old days.....


posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:26 AM

originally posted by: Entreri06

Oh and we no longer marry 13 year olds, which was 100 percent cool with all the Christian churches because of a "if she bleeds, she breeds" philosophy.

That is a bit of a misleading statement as the average lifespan at birth in Revolutionary America was approximately 35.

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