The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

a reply to: TzarChasm

i think vegans and vegetarians dont like eating meat because it reminds them of their own mortality and that terrifies them.

That could be true of both Vegan and Carnivore and also the reverse is true ... that some Vegans and Carnivores are not terrified by their own mortality.

But respect that you respect the animal you sacrifice ...

a reply to: boymonkey74

You know, you made me think of the rampant wild boar overpopulation epidemic in many parts of the United States. Would it not be more immoral to allow them to continue to breed and overrun other habitats or hunt them and reduce the population to more suitable levels?

Never mind the fact that they are tasty.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I agree with the morality found in the Bible and the Word of God. I believe He created all living things including all animal life.

In His Word we find:

Deuteronomy 14
"These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep.[a] 6 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud. 7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a divided hoof you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the hyrax. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a divided hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. 8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. 10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.

11 You may eat any clean bird. 12 But these you may not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 13 the red kite, the black kite, any kind of falcon, 14 any kind of raven, 15 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 16 the little owl, the great owl, the white owl, 17 the desert owl, the osprey, the cormorant, 18 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat."

Here God clearly states he created many animals for mankind to eat. As well He describes many animals not created for mankind to eat.

My "morality" is not above God's design; it is in agreement with it.

God Bless,

Self edit.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ElohimJD
9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. 10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.

Well, not for nothing, but the Old Testament God is a bit of an evil bastard and, in this vein, probably wanted to keep all the tasty sea critters (like lobster and oysters) to himself.

Very funny post, a great chuckle.

On a more serious note, imagine how much cleaner the ocean would be if we let the "bottom feeders" live and do the job there were created to do (filter the ocean water), rather then selfishly harvest them to eat against the design of the Creator and at the expense of the oceans?

When I look over the list found in Deuteronomy I can't help but notice the animals listed as "unclean" tend to be animals that eat waste (bottom feeders, pigs etc.) or prey (bird's or prey, mammals with claws/paws etc.). It kind of seems almost logical, at a time when science had very little data to go by (3500 years ago).

God Bless,

Come on folks, return to the topic of the thread which is "The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?".

No more warnings.

Do not reply to this thread.

originally posted by: ElohimJD

On a more serious note, imagine how much cleaner the ocean would be if we let the "bottom feeders" live and do the job there were created to do (filter the ocean water), rather then selfishly harvest them to eat against the design of the Creator and at the expense of the oceans?

Not really a good analogy as Old Testament God says it is okay to eat fish with scales and flounder, halibut, sole, cod, haddock, bass, grouper, carp and snapper are all scaly, and they are all bottom feeders.

When I look over the list found in Deuteronomy I can't help but notice the animals listed as "unclean" tend to be animals that eat waste (bottom feeders, pigs etc.)...

Not sure about everyone else but the piggies that I eat are all fed a diet of nuts, grains and vegetables. It always helps if you know where your food is sourced. This aspect alone tends to address many posters comments about how animals are raised and what may or not be considered 'moral'.

I am not one to eat food from factory farms. One, I think the conditions are not healthy and two, I think the food tastes substandard in comparison to what I can source locally with animals that are raised more humanely.

a reply to: Blaine91555


The veggie substitutes taste like cardboard.
People are more healthy with fish and meat in their diet.
Pigs taste too good.
If we didn't eat Cows/Pigs/Lamb how many of these would we see? maybe a few in a zoo so we are doing their species a favour in eating them....they should be grateful.

a reply to: TzarChasm

think a mistake a lot of people are making is lumping ALL meat into one general category. it doesnt work like that. chicken is not the same as crocodile or octopus. dark meat and white meat also have different nutritional stats. how the meat is treated and processed vs homemade venison or pork.

my opinion is two fold: omitting meat from a diet is a shortcut to eliminating the chemicals factories shovel into our quick-fix meals, and omitting meat really isnt going to solve that.

as for how animals are treated in the process, i beg that we contemplate at length our treatment of each other before exercising our "understanding" of fair treatment. one who does not respect his equal can hardly be expected to respect a commodity.

Champion comment! Star for that and nothing more to add.

i've been a strict veggie since 1991 (no fish as well as no meat). i am 48 years old. it was a choice. so is not being a vegetarian. i wouldn't presume to tell people they shouldn't eat meat. it's up to them. vegetarianism works for me.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
There are various substitutes to eating meat would any of those stop you from eating meat?

If the replacement is a logical mineral/vitamin energy enhancer supporting the body health more so then the same style/type energy enhancer through meat or other lab made bio ingested material.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
What if they could make it taste the same or even 3d print meat for you would you eat it over the real thing then?

In short if the alternative is safe for the species and helps body health and is liked it seems like a logical approach.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
There are plenty of veggie meats that have fooled people into thinking they are real meat, would you eat these over real meat? I have tricked a few friends with vegi meat on multiple occasions just to see thier reactions.

Yes...
Because if "we" are intelligent and AWARE enough a CREATOR Creation Energy Group to recognize pain and torture associated with animal livestock production and have technology to find better ways to ingest energy perhaps we should.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
I am guessing that most would still want real meat regardless of how advanced fake meat is or how real it tastes because its not the real thing.

It seems some consideration of those who feel they are at the top of the food chain if considered "more" at the top. Maybe the days of animal livestock production would slow cease and better ways could / would be found to obtain the mineral/vitamin energy associated with animal livestock feeding...

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Is it moral to eat animals when you dont need to?

1 will not place judgment on any Aware CREATOR Creations eating morals or habits here.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Do you even care at all about the possible immorality of eating animals when you dont need to as there are alternatives that can fool anyone?

Yes...

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Do we have the right to inflict suffering on creatures we consider ourselves more advanced than, then slaughter and eat them when there is no need to?

So what say you ATS will you always eat meat regardless of how good the alternatives are? If so why or why not?

It seems the question is more verified within the conscious of those AWARE who would take the time to consider how they would feel if another CREATOR Creation was interested in using them for flesh or soul like livestock production...

God Bless you for taking the time and effort in making this thread considering CREATOR Creations feeding off of other CREATOR Creations.

If "WE" ARE advanced and aware why not figure more advanced ways to eat? Who knows may even teach Others aware at the same time...

NAMASTE*******

1 considers most FLORA of EA*RTH to be a given from GIA somewhat like the hair on top surface of some CREATOR Creations... Does the CREATOR Creation feel its hair trimmed?

It is also considered that YES there may exist intelligent plant life or SENTIENT FLORAL intelligence. And if encountered deep consideration of how to interact with them should be done...

Oh really ?

Vegetarian is the way to go ?

Funny how we are supposedly descended from the 'monkey's' whose primary diet was 'vegetarian' to put it mildly.

And it was when they started to eat meats did their intelligence start to grow.

I don't get why people want to go back to where we came from.

Immoral to eat meat ?

LOL that's GD evolution at work, and we owe our current progress to it.

There have been quite a few questions about plants in this thread and yes its kinda off topic but here is a decent answer for those wondering whats the difference. . .



In my opinion all matter has counsiousness however there are different levels of counsiousness in plants and animals. Animals are more advanced in the chain of evolution and have brains similar to our own, where as plants have counsiousness which is not as developed. Things like rocks and metals also have counsiousness of an even lesser degree in my opinion. So the counsiousness and identity or ego developed by the being needs to be able to exert its will to exist and evolve into life be considered alive. There are degrees of life as seen in plants and animals, animals being superior in ego and further evolved in a variety of ways very similar to humans.

So think of the consciousness of an inanimate object like the thermostat which Michio Kaku mentions. He believes that even a lowly thermostat has one unit of consciousness. That is, it senses the temperature around it and goes up and down. And then we have a flower which Dr Kaku speaks of or a plant as we are dealing with in our thread. A plant has maybe ten units of consciousness. It has to understand the temperature, the weather, humidity, where gravity is pointing. And then finally we go to the reptilian brain which I call level 1 consciousness and reptiles basically have a very good understanding of their position in space, especially because they have to lunge out and grab prey. Then we have level 2 consciousness, the monkey consciousness. The consciousness of emotions, social hierarchies, where are we in relationship to the tribe. And then where are we as humans.

As humans we are at level 3. We run simulations into the future. Animals apparently don't do this.

So why do we see a difference because there are differences in evolution, and plants are at the lowest level of consumable counsiousness which we could survive on, meaning the least amount of suffering need to sustain ourselves, at thier level there is limited ego and suffering in comparison to animals, and the reason we eat plants rather than animals is to have less suffering, be more humane and take a higher moral path.

If we should find another way to sustain ourselves like on sunlight like superman or 3d print food at the atomic level then I wouldnt mind abstaining from eating plants as well because they also have a right to life.

How did this thread make it to 32 pages?

I eat what I damn well please. That's one of the perks of living in a free country. There are enough people looking down their noses at my dietary choices between the jews and the muslims. I don't need vegetarians telling me how to live my life as well.

If you feel like you need to determine what is and isn't moral for me or anyone else to eat, go start your own country.

This may horrify the OP.

I do a lot of thinking about your topic but in a different way. When I see an animal, any animal, i tend to wonder how it tastes. This is not limited to "normal" food animals like cows and pigs and i am sure im not the only one. I would absolutely like to try dog, cat, dolphin,whale, whatever. Im sure that our society is missing out on a lot of deliciousness. Do you really think our neolithic ancestors got choosey? Look! Animals! Dinner! I propose the opposite of stopping the consumption of meat. Lets eat all meat (except humans)!

Let the flames begin.