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The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

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posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 10:42 AM
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originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
I think many of the replies in the thread would lend thier answers to the I dont even care catagory.

Even if a better way was developed which didnt include suffering at all, many in our civilization wouldnt care at all about the mass torture and slaughter of animals they would still want the real thing just because. . .


SO this ENTIRE THREAD was a TROLL right?




posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:05 AM
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I cannot survive with out meat and the fat that comes with it. Epilepsy runs in my family. If I didn't have enough fat in my diet, I would be shaking like a leaf just about 3 times a week or more. With the help of meat, and the fat that comes with it, my myelin sheaths are at the proper thickness needed so my nerves don't short circuit and send me into shaking fits.

People don't take into account a person's blood type, or what issues a body has. Some of us would die on a diet of nothing but plants, not being able to make the proper proteins and amino acids for over all body health. And even if they created "the perfect lab meat", I'm not so certain that I would eat it.

You are not my doctor, eating cute furry animals is not immoral, my way of life, is my way of life and doesn't harm or benefit you. You live your life, and I shall live mine. As for me and my house, we will eat the meat.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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i think a mistake a lot of people are making is lumping ALL meat into one general category. it doesnt work like that. chicken is not the same as crocodile or octopus. dark meat and white meat also have different nutritional stats. how the meat is treated and processed vs homemade venison or pork.

my opinion is two fold: omitting meat from a diet is a shortcut to eliminating the chemicals factories shovel into our quick-fix meals, and omitting meat really isnt going to solve that.

as for how animals are treated in the process, i beg that we contemplate at length our treatment of each other before exercising our "understanding" of fair treatment. one who does not respect his equal can hardly be expected to respect a commodity.
edit on 2-2-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

What's your point that chicken isn't the same as croc or octopus?

Id eat croc & octopus more often than chicken if it was readily available.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: TzarChasm

What's your point that chicken isn't the same as croc or octopus?

Id eat croc & octopus more often than chicken if it was readily available.


chicken has different dietary benefits/detriments as compared to octopus or crocodile. chemical treatments before/after death and anatomical origin also affect this.

and lets not forget that "work on being nice to each other before pets" point i raised as well.
edit on 2-2-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: Skada
I cannot survive with out meat and the fat that comes with it. Epilepsy runs in my family. If I didn't have enough fat in my diet, I would be shaking like a leaf just about 3 times a week or more. With the help of meat, and the fat that comes with it, my myelin sheaths are at the proper thickness needed so my nerves don't short circuit and send me into shaking fits.

People don't take into account a person's blood type, or what issues a body has. Some of us would die on a diet of nothing but plants, not being able to make the proper proteins and amino acids for over all body health. And even if they created "the perfect lab meat", I'm not so certain that I would eat it.

You are not my doctor, eating cute furry animals is not immoral, my way of life, is my way of life and doesn't harm or benefit you. You live your life, and I shall live mine. As for me and my house, we will eat the meat.


Then clearly, this thread wasn't meant for you (or any who have specific dietary needs related to their own body)...yours is a purely survival case, similarly (and because there has been much idiocy about why vegos eat plants that are living organisms) vegos would not be able to survive on rocks and dirt.

Did the OP really have to detail every parameter under which the question could be asked?...I would have thought there was more intelligence in the ATS community.

Cheers

Å99



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: TzarChasm

What's your point that chicken isn't the same as croc or octopus?

Id eat croc & octopus more often than chicken if it was readily available.


chicken has different dietary benefits/detriments as compared to octopus or crocodile. chemical treatments before/after death and anatomical origin also affect this.

and lets not forget that "work on being nice to each other before pets" point i raised as well.


I thought your final point was actually very good, I just thought you abruptly switched to it before finishing your first thought & didn't know if you were speaking of the in/humane treatment of chickens vs whatever else or the dietary benefits/lack thereof.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

as for how animals are treated in the process, i beg that we contemplate at length our treatment of each other before exercising our "understanding" of fair treatment. one who does not respect his equal can hardly be expected to respect a commodity.


Before it gets too buried



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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People are trying to dismiss the moral issue based on things like religion. Another poster mentioned Jesus eating meat but that is a bit of a straw man. Jesus certainly could eat meat as he and the father give life and thus can take it away. However Jesus I think would not condone the practices involved with modern meat production. Putting pigs and cows in stalls where they never see the sky or grass. Forced to stand or lay in a confined space until time of slaughter. The lack of thankfulness when considering your food and how it was provided is long gone in most peoples eyes. The moral issue is really very simple and does not need a religious system to justify it. You simply either feel bad because you think your food is produced in a manner which is cruel to the animals or you do not. Would you subject your pets to the same methods if you chose to eat them? That may be a bit of a stretch in reasoning but the fact that most would not is quite telling. Most people know these things deep down but would rather not think about it. Out of sight out of mind.

I am posting a music video that artistically seems to encapsulate the journey in how we treat our food and how we treat ourselves. The music is probably a bit harsh for most people's ears so feel free to watch it on mute but please try to watch it til the end. There are some scenes that may be NSFW or offensive to some although I think it is a bit on the tame side compared to reality.


edit on 2-2-2015 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

I don't know how to embed videos (especially on the phone) but this flash animation is full of so much truth you'll die laughing.

m.youtube.com...



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Eunuchorn

Nice vid thanks for posting and I agree a lot of truth to be found there. I will try to embed it for you although it seems wonky for me lately.

Again about morality , the act is immoral if you find it to be so but choose to continue to engage or condone it. Such as the fact that we can now create better methods of producing foods where our ancestors could not. The real problem with society is everyday we have to sacrifice our morals in order to survive. I used to feel sick going to work at a job that encouraged me to lie in order to get sales until I finally decided to quit. It hurt my conscious so bad that I would get ill and had ulcers.

Here is your vid hopefully.


edit on 2-2-2015 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Id eat croc & octopus more often than chicken if it was readily available.


Octopus. Mm mm mm.

I'm very glad there is no such thing as "Ranger Octopus". I am pretty sure I'd have to draw the line at biting into a live octopus. (shudder) Can you imagine the thing trying to ooze away whilst wrapping your head up with all the tentacles?

We didn't even have the "eyeball soup" challenge in my day. Maybe they ought to add a "live octopus dinner" to switch things up some years. Gah.

While I like calamari, the only thing an octopus is good for is feeding your spare fish to on a dive.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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I am so tired and discouraged by this sort of thread. It seems that it is only a way to Out people as different - more than to uphold the rights of animals or the so-called Sanctity of Life.

I have never eaten a dead creature. I am in excellent health. I do not refrain from corpse eating for MY health, or MY well-being, but for the creatures that are abused by so-called manKIND. OIt is NOT all about you or me.

I am nauseated, shamed and horrified by the way so-called humans treat so-called lesser beings. Animals are not OURS, we do not own them; no living being can be owned; there is only Slavery.

Endlessly debating the issue means nothing, proves nothing. I know that this reply is just a whisper in the vast scream that rises from this dark star and this is my last post on the matter.

I, because I can not speak for any other human, consciously opt out of the so-called Circle of Life /Death. I will not be party to the holocaust of the animals.

You do as you Will. You are the only one responsible for your actions and it is not my affair.

Seldom can anyone convince an Other by Logic, it is usually an emotional response. . . but please be aware of Manipulation - Something needs Blood, pain and suffering.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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Absolute nonsensical. Immoral to eat animals because they feel and have spirits (ethereal bodies) but not plants that are able to feel and have ethereal bodies as well? Your family is vegetarian and is healthy at various ages, congratulations. By the same token I know omnivorous families of various ages that are healthy as well so your point is? This thread was created for yet another group to feel holier than thou just because they chose to live differently. More power to ya but your morality have nothing to do with the next guy, it's for YOU.
edit on 2-2-2015 by Chai_An because: ad.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Chai_An

Well we have to eat. The choice is really not whether to eat meat or veggies but whether we should do so humanely. It is not even relatively realistic to expect the entire world to subsist on a vegetarian diet and would probably do a lot of harm if we tried to force that way of thinking on others. Vegetarianism is just a readily available alternative for some where as that option was not always available. When I was a vegetarian most restaurants did not cater to that but now there are options. We can always find some reason why we should not change but that does not make it right. Some reject it based on religious reasons others just have a conscientious objection based on the means of production and treatment of the animals. Meat is becoming extremely expensive here in the west despite mass production methods so the writing is on the wall that better methods will have to be found simply for individual economic reasons if nothing else. I think the discussion should shift from the OPs desire that everyone engage in vegetarian diets and focus more on what could be done to ensure nutritious, affordable, and humane sources of food production.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Octopus. Too chewy.

And annoying while fishing. Last month I'm fishing for rock fish on a buddies boat. I feel a weird vibration on the line. After a while curiosity gets to me so I pull up the line. IT's a white and orange polka dotted octopus. about the size of a soccer ball. I peel his tentacles off from around the line and throw him back. Put on a new piece of bait. Strangely squid strips. and drop my line back down. No more than a minute later, the same funny vibration. I'm thinking no, this guy again?

Pull up my line, same exact octopus. markings and all. I peel him off and throw him a good 25 feet from the stern and drop my line down again with a fresh piece of bait. two minutes later. the same vibration on my line. I pull up the line. Same damned octopus. I take him and throw him 25 feet off the bow 45 feet away. Drop my line by the stern again. 5 minutes later the same vibration. Pull up my line and it's the same damned octopus eating my bait again. This time I peel him off and throw him in the gunny sack. Look back an hour later and the bastards crawling across the deck, he had somehow gotten out. We were pulling anchor and about to look for a new place to meter so I threw himg back.

Frigen octopus. Only tasty if they are sliced real thin so you don't notice how chewy they are.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

That octopus was your reincarnates grandmother trying to reunite with you, you sick twisted immoral pig.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bedlam

Octopus. Too chewy.


They're bright for a cold-blooded animal, and fun to play with in the water if they're in the mood for it. But it has no flavor and it's like eating an o-ring.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

I'm not trying to dismiss the moral issue about meat eating. I'm simply saying that for those who "attach" vegetarianism to spiritual attainment, They have to reconcile the fact that Jesus ( The sinless son of God ) presumably ate meat. Although I am in complete agreement that the raising of animals for these purposes must be brought to an end. Can people not see the logical conclusion to such a line of thinking. What if there are more powerful beings that would find us tasty on their plates ? Would we not hope that they lived by a different code of conduct then our own ?

Btw. With an avatar like yours I would expect you to be the last one against killing things ???
edit on 2-2-2015 by HarryJoy because: add



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bedlam

Octopus. Too chewy.


They're bright for a cold-blooded animal, and fun to play with in the water if they're in the mood for it. But it has no flavor and it's like eating an o-ring.
That's the one thing I dislike about Japanese cuisine. We eat a lot of cephalopods here. I've never been a huge fan of octopus or squid, but with the right seasoning it can be tolerable.



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