The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
I think the discussion should shift from the OPs desire that everyone engage in vegetarian diets and focus more on what could be done to ensure nutritious, affordable, and humane sources of food production.

When I was a kid, half the sci-fi had some sort of yeast-based foods that were, according to the characters, basically indistinguishable from "the real thing" to the point the thought of eating actual meat was disgusting.

So far all we seem to have achieved is Vegemite, which is sort of ok if it's spread thin, and Marmite, which is like eating dead man's snot, which is still better than "veggie burger", but not by much.

Where are my yeast cutlets, Heinlein? Niven? I want my yeast syntho steaks and chicken.

a reply to: Bedlam

This is true. Science has not always kept up with its promises and many attempts at alternatives have turned out to be worse for you either by intent or not ( I am staring at you aspartame and associates ) . There is always nutritious Soylent Green haha. The futurist like Heinlein and friends are correct though. They saw that starvation will become a real issue as humanity expands and that science will try to create solutions to the problem.

Your comment makes me think of Chicken Nuggets. They are essentially a nugget shaped paste from unwanted male chics that is breaded but millions of people shove them in their kids mouth and don't give it a second thought so people are definitely removed from their food. I think the humane feelings I speak of are the direct result of the interaction with your food as it is grown/produced. A small farmer or homesteader who takes time to deliver, raise, and care for an animal for sustenance is not going to go out of their way to make the animal suffer needlessly and also have the knowledge that the suffering at death is somewhat offset by decent care during the animals life.

originally posted by: HarryJoy

I'm simply saying that for those who "attach" vegetarianism to spiritual attainment, They have to reconcile the fact that Jesus ( The sinless son of God ) presumably ate meat.

If not, then he sure made it on the spot magically for his followers, and was pretty gung-ho on fishing.

Also, for the Kabbalists, the Sefer Yetzirah is/was used to create a tasty beef barbecue by magic.

And you can bet Rinpoche ate meat like a wild animal when he was a dog, cat, tiger etc.

Can people not see the logical conclusion to such a line of thinking. What if there are more powerful beings that would find us tasty on their plates ? Would we not hope that they lived by a different code of conduct then our own ?

I'd call that an illogical conclusion, actually. What if there aren't any more powerful beings? And how do you know that little space buddies don't eat people? Maybe they just hide it really well.

Now, if you combined the two concepts above, it would make for a really whack powerful religion, wouldn't it? If the Buddha occasionally grabbed a priest and ate his ass live right in front of everyone like a tiger on steroids?

Teacher...how long will it take for me to know the secret of the eight-fold way?

My son, the eight-fold way is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

So like, what, an hour or so?

Student, you fail to grasp the path. Approach me so that you may see. Observe closely.

NOM NOM NOM NOM RAAARR NOM NOM NOM slurp...namaste!

(burrrp!) You were lucky, my son. Few novices experience so much of the eight fold way so soon.

a reply to: kiro8lak

Thank you for your brave stand ... I will admit that my choosing to eat meat mostly stems from convenience and habit. I am certainly coming under more conviction to abstain from it as of late. I can honestly say that when I was a vegetarian I was as healthy as ever and maybe more so then now. I found that once my appetite adjusted I found myself craving various vegetarian dishes as much or more then I do any meat dish.

I feel strongly that a society structured around vegetarianism would provide the healthiest circumstances for human development.

originally posted by: HarryJoy
a reply to: kiro8lak

Thank you for your brave stand ... I will admit that my choosing to eat meat mostly stems from convenience and habit. I am certainly coming under more conviction to abstain from it as of late. I can honestly say that when I was a vegetarian I was as healthy as ever and maybe more so then now. I found that once my appetite adjusted I found myself craving various vegetarian dishes as much or more then I do any meat dish.

I feel strongly that a society structured around vegetarianism would provide the healthiest circumstances for human development.

Your last statement is certainly true. If we were devote fields currently used entirely to supply feed yards and ranches with grain and other edibles for livestock, and also turned all current feed lot and ranch lands into arable farm land, you could feed a great many more people than would have been fed by the livestock alone.

That being said, as long as human have teeth meant for chewing meat, and as long our digestive systems are capable of processing and deriving energy from the meat, I don't see that trend stopping any time in the near future.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

...and also turned all current feed lot and ranch lands into arable farm land, you could feed a great many more people than would have been fed by the livestock alone.

However, is that a good idea?

Or, are people like tribbles? Feed them, you get more. So far, we seem to be reproducing wildly. Introducing more feed might not result in the happy happy world you might envision.

An alternative way to make the world a better place for animals might involve fewer humans instead.

originally posted by: Bedlam

An alternative way to make the world a better place for animals might involve fewer humans instead.

Does that involve turning them into bacon first?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bedlam

An alternative way to make the world a better place for animals might involve fewer humans instead.

Does that involve turning them into bacon first?

Mmmm... People Bacon..

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Mmmm... People Bacon..

Yeah. Except unlike Motel Hell I would not use preservative on you.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Mmmm... People Bacon..

Yeah. Except unlike Motel Hell I would not use preservative on you.

At least do me the favor of properly seasoning me first.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bedlam

An alternative way to make the world a better place for animals might involve fewer humans instead.

Does that involve turning them into bacon first?

Zombies. It involves zombies.

originally posted by: Bedlam

Zombies. It involves zombies.

Even better. I just stocked up an ammo for the minigun.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bedlam

Zombies. It involves zombies.

Even better. I just stocked up an ammo for the minigun.

Come get me first. Not enough guns in Japan. I'm pretty sure I'm still accurate enough to qualify with a rifle.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Come get me first. Not enough guns in Japan. I'm pretty sure I'm still accurate enough to qualify with a rifle.

I got all excited by the 'come get me first' part as I thought you wanted me to increase your Vitamin L intake. Turns out you only needed rescuing.

Oh well. I guess I could scoot over and blast a few zombos in J-Land and save your Railgun booty.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Come get me first. Not enough guns in Japan. I'm pretty sure I'm still accurate enough to qualify with a rifle.

I got all excited by the 'come get me first' part as I thought you wanted me to increase your Vitamin L intake. Turns out you only needed rescuing.

Oh well. I guess I could scoot over and blast a few zombos in J-Land and save your Railgun booty.

It wouldn't be hard. Japanese Zombies would bow and apologize before eating you so there's ample time to run away.

MOD NOTE:

Please return to the topic and knock off the off topic posts.

Blaine91555
Forum Mod

so, to recap: how is the consumption of cooked flesh immoral?

a reply to: TzarChasm

If you can look an animal in the eyes as you kill it ... or are happy to have someone else do that for you ... that is your personal choice.
I however could not do that and be happy with myself ... but that is more a case of empathy than a moral ... again personal choice

I can not understand the point of forcing one's own choices on others be it Vegan or Carnivore ...

a reply to: artistpoet

i would not be happy to kill it. but it would certainly make me appreciate my own place in the circle of life. i would probably spend half the time imagining a bear ripping me apart, and the other half wishing the critter a blissful afterlife as consolation for my taking its first. remorse and empathy are very important flags. understanding what you are doing to it and wishing it wasnt necessary, but at the same time realizing that it IS necessary, giving you a more honest look at yourself than most mirrors. it really drives home the sacrifice, and an appreciation for exactly what such an act of violence means.

i think vegans and vegetarians dont like eating meat because it reminds them of their own mortality and that terrifies them.