God is Love... Except when he's committing genocide...

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Rome was trying to murder Christians, not help them get a religion started. Nero especially hated the apostles because Paul had converted some in his household. He had Paul and Peter executed in Rome. The Romans didn't even make Christianity the state religion until the 4th century when Theodosius II was the emperor.

Yea from 1ad to 350ad, but in Constantine's time they weren't burning Christians. They converted. It's been awhile but I think the "Paul was a creation of rome" theory, says that he was either added or highly edited around the niecean council. I can't remember if Paul's books were found in the early copies of NT books.

a reply to: stosh64

From page 7 of this thread.

The days of Noah were ruled by satanic hybrids, and is predicted to be the same way when He returns.
I believe this is in progress now.

Wow!! That is exactly the conclusion to which I arrived after many years of reading and observation.

It is also part and parcel of my conversion process..after many years of trying to avoid being converted and sticking to the world template and the world's wisdom. I suddenly realized that there were two systems in operation out here and always has been.

Yes...that is precisely what is meant in Genesis...when it states that Noah was " perfect in his generations."

Noah and his family had not been defiled as were the rest of mankind.

This is verified in Joshua 25:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

These are the two systems in operation...and Joshua again illustrates this happening back in history and up to that time.

I believe this system is attempting to be returned and it is an organized system.

The tell tale sign of it is two dominant characteristics...

Excessive knowledge of the flesh..and the spirit of the flesh...verses God's Spirit and Wisdom.

And that the land is filled with violence.

Both fingerprints and indexes of the other religion. This is obvious in both the Olde and New Testaments.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Wow again...astonishing.. from page 6 of this thread..

You classified live as some intangible thing that exists with or with out a brain. So I showed how love is really just a chemical reaction. So yea my response was at least as on topic as yours.... Plus I'm the OP, so house rules lol.

This is of the flesh and not of the Spirit. To those who know and have Wisdom...capital W here...they know clearly.

Off topic but how can anyone buy into ANY of Paul's teachings when he never even met Jesus.... His unique take on Christianity comes 100% from voices in his head....

Oh no..this is not off topic at all..but right on topic.

It is the same God of Whom is being spoken in both the Olde Testament and in the New Testament. You are speaking once again of the flesh...you cannot seem to separate from this one track fleshly thinking. No problem I merely point It out for Believers here who can see, hear, and understand.

I will point out that the Hebrews in the Olde and New Testament ..most of them never met Him as well. No rocket material or man made wisdom needed here. What are you thinking here...again??


originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: Entreri06

Of what past actions are you speaking here...]Entreri06??

Orangetom



Faith healers who with hold anti biotics, snake handlers, segregation, South Africa apartide, hitler and most of the German people were Christian, KKK , exc exc exc..

Oh...good grief...I get the same or similar thing with those using the Crusades and Inquisition as talking points.

There is no such instruction in the Word to so carry on. I don't know where you get that as a talking point. I believe I stated in an earlier post that people are known as Nations in the word..not by race as man's wisdom is want to do today.

Race is only used in the minds of men today to divide ..not to unite. This understanding alone should be enough to clarify that the Nazis were not Christian...and most did not even know this template. This also clears up what the KKK is as they too only have race. ...the flesh.

So too with many Blacks today who have made an industry out of race..they are no different from the KKK...racists...not in the Spirit..but another spirit.

There is no such instruction to handle snakes per se...to show one is devout. That is just plain dumb. It is of works.

There is also no such instruction for Christianity to be spread by the sword or burning at the stake...which tells you clearly about the Inquisition and the Crusades. They were not Christian but of the other religion and the other god.
This is obvious when one has studied counterfeits...and how they are hidden from us...Occult..hidden concealed.

Yet you bring them out as Christian...when they are no such thing.

Wow!!

But he still never met Jesus right??


That explaines why I googled "acts 15" summary" and got circumsistion debate.

LOL LOL LOL>..ok..no problem .. and the hits keep coming!!!

Circumcision in the New Testament and for the Believer is not the physical circumcision of the physical part which identified the Hebrews or the Jews. It means that todays Believers are the Jews ..of every kindred and tongue on the earth. Not a physical people in the flesh are Jews or the circumcision..but those the Father hath given Him..of every kindred and tongue.

One must be careful here...for New Testament circumcision is the circumcision of the heart with the Word. And Jesus is the Word. It is not physical circumcision.

And yet at the same time ...in both the Olde And New Testament circumcision is often used to refer to Physical Jews...so one must be aware of the change which took place as a result of the cross...the Death of the Testator on the cross which ushered in the New Testament...and the non circumcision as into the fold to become Jews..to whom the promises were made...as well as to Believing Jews.. this wall of partition was to be removed.

It is many non believers as well as Believers who often have problems with this understanding...Wisdom.
Because they are still stuck in the flesh...and this is obvious by many of the posts here.


originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Entreri06

Paul met Jesus the same way I did. You do not have to have lived when Jesus did to literally meet HIM. HE is alive and not dead.

Bingo...right on target. Well said.

Still think it's crazy to have (isn't Paul the largest single author of the NT?) to have a large chunk of Christianity written by a guy who never even met Jesus... That explains where you get all the "Paul was a creation of Rome" conspiracies.

He went the Joseph smith route.

Wow!! You need to think this one through..historically. Rome carried out both an Inquisition and several Crusades. There is no such instruction of Paul for the Church to so carry on. Rome also went after Christians...and they were not the only church to so go after Christians.
There is no such instruction from Paul to spread the Word by the sword or burning at the stake. Why would you use this as an example of Christian??

You can find this information's in John Fox and his Book of Martyrs as to which church was persecuting Christians.

A drug causes more love then the natural world can. On MDMA you feel the strongest love you'll ever feel, just doesn't last as long as people love. Still a replicate able chemical reaction tho.

I have no idea what is MDMA but it is obviously of the flesh again. I can make a similar argument for television and movies as being a drug...or the Super Bowl game...NASCAR.

I chose to go to the stores on Super Bowl Sunday and do some shopping to avoid the traffic and congestion in the stores about town and after kick off time...not before. It worked out well for me. I took advantage of most people getting their television and sports annual drug fix. I have no interest in football or sports. I see to much brainwashing/propaganda/drug fix in that type of event. It is not for me thanks.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

Continuing on...

If the Christian god was needed for religious experiences, then science couldn't replicate it.

Wow!!! Double Wow!! Talk about pablum....

This doesn't even make good nonsense once you know.

Science makes for a poor religion..simply for the track record of science. While science has put us in better cars..computers,...homes, clothes and a host of other items ..it has only made us better consumers..and even better consumers of each other..but not made us better people. People of the flesh.
It is astonishing to me that people of logic and reason cannot seem to make this distinction but once gain ..are only of the flesh.

And it is also clear ..that science will sell itself to the highest bidder. And furthermorer ..even the Muslims and Communists both are big believers in Science..but what is their track record historically...Democide. This is what they are doing with their science.

For the Communists are and remain heavily entrenched in Science while they slaughter more of their own people and people they have conquered or over whom they govern.
And the interesting thing to me is that both of these systems do not like Christianity.

I don't put that much stock in science to replicate. No thanks.

Yea from 1ad to 350ad, but in Constantine's time they weren't burning Christians. They converted. It's been awhile but I think the "Paul was a creation of rome" theory, says that he was either added or highly edited around the niecean council. I can't remember if Paul's books were found in the early copies of NT books.

As I stated..earlier in another post..read John Fox and his Book of Martyrs to see whom Rome was Burning after Constantine. And Rome was not the only church doing this persecuting Christians..so too was the Anglican church. And at some point the Lutherans also persecuted some Christians.

As to Paul being a Creation of Rome..remember...Paul was around long before Rome of today and was persecuted by his own people ..the Jews..just as was Jesus and the rest of the Apostles. As I recall the only one to survive into olde age was John.
Someone out here does not like what Paul taught...as to the relationship of the Olde and New Testaments.
Someone out here wants to bring us back to the Olde Testament bondage and beyond into pre flood religion. And pre flood religion is what the Hebrews of olde were involved into and punished over and over for being disobedient rather than keeping the Law of Moses. The Hebrews were constantly seduced back into the religions of the nations surrounding them...the pre flood religions making a comeback. Just as being done today.



Enough for now..thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: Entreri06

Yea from 1ad to 350ad, but in Constantine's time they weren't burning Christians. They converted.

That's not true, it was Constantine who ordered the ending of the persecution of Christians. His 2nd successor, Theodosius II made Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire.

It's been awhile but I think the "Paul was a creation of rome" theory, says that he was either added or highly edited around the niecean council.

That's a preposterous claim, the Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible. It addressed the Arian heresy and voted on a date for Easter. The editing you speak of was in the 3rd and 4th centuries in Alexandria, Egypt by the Gnostics, they were accused of "mutilating" the scriptures and expurgating (removing) portions they didn't like. That was before 325 A.D. See "Against Heresies", Irenaeus.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Yea from 1ad to 350ad, but in Constantine's time they weren't burning Christians. They converted.

That's not true, it was Constantine who ordered the ending of the persecution of Christians. His 2nd successor, Theodosius II made Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire.

It's been awhile but I think the "Paul was a creation of rome" theory, says that he was either added or highly edited around the niecean council.

That's a preposterous claim, the Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible. It addressed the Arian heresy and voted on a date for Easter. The editing you speak of was in the 3rd and 4th centuries in Alexandria, Egypt by the Gnostics, they were accused of "mutilating" the scriptures and expurgating (removing) portions they didn't like. That was before 325 A.D. See "Against Heresies", Irenaeus.

Were the Dead Sea scrolls gnostic? I know there were far more books found there then the NT contains.

Also I don't think much is preposterous when talking about events 2000 years ago. Your talking about stuff that was word of mouth for the first 50 years at least. What story could survive that unchanged.....and that's before all the polititicians got their hands on them.


Was it the OT that was originally written in cruciform? (No spaces, no punctuation) or was it the NT too? I know the later transcripts were Greek, but what about the 100ad copies.


Any real history historian, as opposed to biblical scholars, would admit the differences between the anchient copies and say the KJV isn't accidental or the change in languages. Hell the bibles version of the OT is so different from the Torah that many people have converted to Judaism. Like the GB packer rev. Reggie white. The bible wasn't just changed once. It's been changed oodles of times.... Even by lowly scribes.

The whole Paul theory isn't my pet theory and I'm at work so not much time to reliok into it.

a reply to: Entreri06

Were the Dead Sea scrolls gnostic? I know there were far more books found there then the NT contains.

I think you are mistaking the DSS with the Nag-Hammadi library.

Also I don't think much is preposterous when talking about events 2000 years ago.

What are you going off on a tangent about? I said it was preposterous to claim the Council of Nicaea had anything to do with the cannon of the NT. The council addressed the Arian Heresy and settled on a date to celebrate Easter. Justin Martyr was touting the same 27 NT books we have today in the late 2nd century. More than 150 years before Nicaea.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Were the Dead Sea scrolls gnostic? I know there were far more books found there then the NT contains.

I think you are mistaking the DSS with the Nag-Hammadi library.

Also I don't think much is preposterous when talking about events 2000 years ago.

What are you going off on a tangent about? I said it was preposterous to claim the Council of Nicaea had anything to do with the cannon of the NT. The council addressed the Arian Heresy and settled on a date to celebrate Easter. Justin Martyr was touting the same 27 NT books we have today in the late 2nd century. More than 150 years before Nicaea.

Yea I did a quick refresher course on the council.


A: do we have records from it? Or is it more that we have copies of copies from it? Once to start getting into copies of copies the evidence chain is screwed.

B: I wonder how much of this stuff, from the first to the 4th or 5th centuries, we are just taking the ROman Catholic Church word for it. If the earliest copies we have today are from catholic scribes 200 years after the event.......

C: just as a weird fyi, Since you said tangent earlier, I never get emotional over Internet forums. It's just all in good fun for me. Hell I rarely get emotional in real life. Lol. There is definately a lot lost in text. Without tone or inflection to go too. So I'm never mad or franking out or whatever. So feel free to say whatever I'm not reporting anyone. Hehe

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Rome was trying to murder Christians, not help them get a religion started. Nero especially hated the apostles because Paul had converted some in his household. He had Paul and Peter executed in Rome. The Romans didn't even make Christianity the state religion until the 4th century when Theodosius II was the emperor.

But there isn't really any way that the evidence chain was secure. Imagaine how easy it is today to fool people or revise history!!! And that's with video and the internet!


What is the earliest originals we have??? Do you know right off the top of your head?

ANY ACCOUNT ( not just biblical) would be nearly impossible to validate a story from one town to the next, let alone over thousands of years.

originally posted by: orangetom1999
Continuing on...

If the Christian god was needed for religious experiences, then science couldn't replicate it.

Wow!!! Double Wow!! Talk about pablum....

This doesn't even make good nonsense once you know.

Science makes for a poor religion..simply for the track record of science. While science has put us in better cars..computers,...homes, clothes and a host of other items ..it has only made us better consumers..and even better consumers of each other..but not made us better people. People of the flesh.
It is astonishing to me that people of logic and reason cannot seem to make this distinction but once gain ..are only of the flesh.

And it is also clear ..that science will sell itself to the highest bidder. And furthermorer ..even the Muslims and Communists both are big believers in Science..but what is their track record historically...Democide. This is what they are doing with their science.

For the Communists are and remain heavily entrenched in Science while they slaughter more of their own people and people they have conquered or over whom they govern.
And the interesting thing to me is that both of these systems do not like Christianity.

I don't put that much stock in science to replicate. No thanks.

Yea from 1ad to 350ad, but in Constantine's time they weren't burning Christians. They converted. It's been awhile but I think the "Paul was a creation of rome" theory, says that he was either added or highly edited around the niecean council. I can't remember if Paul's books were found in the early copies of NT books.

As I stated..earlier in another post..read John Fox and his Book of Martyrs to see whom Rome was Burning after Constantine. And Rome was not the only church doing this persecuting Christians..so too was the Anglican church. And at some point the Lutherans also persecuted some Christians.

As to Paul being a Creation of Rome..remember...Paul was around long before Rome of today and was persecuted by his own people ..the Jews..just as was Jesus and the rest of the Apostles. As I recall the only one to survive into olde age was John.
Someone out here does not like what Paul taught...as to the relationship of the Olde and New Testaments.
Someone out here wants to bring us back to the Olde Testament bondage and beyond into pre flood religion. And pre flood religion is what the Hebrews of olde were involved into and punished over and over for being disobedient rather than keeping the Law of Moses. The Hebrews were constantly seduced back into the religions of the nations surrounding them...the pre flood religions making a comeback. Just as being done today.



Enough for now..thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

You gotta break them replys up homie. Makes it way easier to reply.




Science is a sad religion... Because it isn't one....science is just an ever improving collection of facts, educated guesses and observations. The worlds religions all just had to have creation stories millinia before we had any way to really know and what science has found doesn't match with any of them.


Also I really hate, the whole "good ol days" argument. It just isn't true. The crime rate has steadily dropped (that's saying something with survelance equiptment and the PTB making new laws like you hand out candy.)

We have only gotten better as we have gotten less religious. There was no utopian time in the past. Any group you could name was treating some portion of there population like animals, but that portion has steadily declined since , what? Whatever was right before the Industrial Age. Humanity is sliding into the abyss... It's climbing out of one. Religion ran society for thousands of years. Thru most of the darkest hours of human history, it's only since we only counted what you can prove as real that we started really getting better.




It really does take american evangelical Christians to deny evolution and climate change doesn't it. Like you said "even Muslims and communists believe in science.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Rome was trying to murder Christians, not help them get a religion started. Nero especially hated the apostles because Paul had converted some in his household. He had Paul and Peter executed in Rome. The Romans didn't even make Christianity the state religion until the 4th century when Theodosius II was the emperor.

But there isn't really any way that the evidence chain was secure. Imagaine how easy it is today to fool people or revise history!!! And that's with video and the internet!


What is the earliest originals we have??? Do you know right off the top of your head?

ANY ACCOUNT ( not just biblical) would be nearly impossible to validate a story from one town to the next, let alone over thousands of years.

But...but! The bible told me so!

It's so refreshing to see another person with this understanding. I find it truly baffling how anyone can believe the current bible (in whatever language they're reading it in) is exactly the same as it was 1000+ years ago.

Long term conditioning is a truly conniving practice.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Rome was trying to murder Christians, not help them get a religion started. Nero especially hated the apostles because Paul had converted some in his household. He had Paul and Peter executed in Rome. The Romans didn't even make Christianity the state religion until the 4th century when Theodosius II was the emperor.

But there isn't really any way that the evidence chain was secure. Imagaine how easy it is today to fool people or revise history!!! And that's with video and the internet!


What is the earliest originals we have??? Do you know right off the top of your head?

ANY ACCOUNT ( not just biblical) would be nearly impossible to validate a story from one town to the next, let alone over thousands of years.

But...but! The bible told me so!

It's so refreshing to see another person with this understanding. I find it truly baffling how anyone can believe the current bible (in whatever language they're reading it in) is exactly the same as it was 1000+ years ago.

Long term conditioning is a truly conniving practice.

Yup. It's blatantly obvious religion was at first a way to explain things early man didn't yet have the knowledge to explain. Then evolved into a control mechanism far supirior to anything the NSA is doing. Hell, religion only requires a couple charismatic sheep spouting dogma.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Rome was trying to murder Christians, not help them get a religion started. Nero especially hated the apostles because Paul had converted some in his household. He had Paul and Peter executed in Rome. The Romans didn't even make Christianity the state religion until the 4th century when Theodosius II was the emperor.

But there isn't really any way that the evidence chain was secure. Imagaine how easy it is today to fool people or revise history!!! And that's with video and the internet!


What is the earliest originals we have??? Do you know right off the top of your head?

ANY ACCOUNT ( not just biblical) would be nearly impossible to validate a story from one town to the next, let alone over thousands of years.

But...but! The bible told me so!

It's so refreshing to see another person with this understanding. I find it truly baffling how anyone can believe the current bible (in whatever language they're reading it in) is exactly the same as it was 1000+ years ago.

Long term conditioning is a truly conniving practice.

The MSS that scholars have don't change. What changes is common language translations from those Greek manuscripts, because definitions change over time. The Bible has more known manuscripts than any book ever written in human history.

a reply to: Entreri06

A: do we have records from it? Or is it more that we have copies of copies from it? Once to start getting into copies of copies the evidence chain is screwed.

You have letters from people who attended the Council.

B: I wonder how much of this stuff, from the first to the 4th or 5th centuries, we are just taking the ROman Catholic Church word for it. If the earliest copies we have today are from catholic scribes 200 years after the event.......

No, letters written from attendees.

C: just as a weird fyi, Since you said tangent earlier, I never get emotional over Internet forums. It's just all in good fun for me. Hell I rarely get emotional in real life. Lol. There is definately a lot lost in text. Without tone or inflection to go too. So I'm never mad or franking out or whatever. So feel free to say whatever I'm not reporting anyone. Hehe

I didn't say you were getting emotional man. lol

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

A: do we have records from it? Or is it more that we have copies of copies from it? Once to start getting into copies of copies the evidence chain is screwed.

You have letters from people who attended the Council.

B: I wonder how much of this stuff, from the first to the 4th or 5th centuries, we are just taking the ROman Catholic Church word for it. If the earliest copies we have today are from catholic scribes 200 years after the event.......

No, letters written from attendees.

C: just as a weird fyi, Since you said tangent earlier, I never get emotional over Internet forums. It's just all in good fun for me. Hell I rarely get emotional in real life. Lol. There is definately a lot lost in text. Without tone or inflection to go too. So I'm never mad or franking out or whatever. So feel free to say whatever I'm not reporting anyone. Hehe

I didn't say you were getting emotional man. lol

Do we have the actual letters or medieval recopies? It was a big thing in the Middle Ages to translate old roman texts.

What do you mean by attendees? Church attendes letters to one another?

You never said what the earliest known copies of original texts when/where from, if you know.

originally posted by: Entreri06
I agree with you, but so iyho what's the truth? Or has it been lost to the ages?

Before the time that all the early Christian scrolls were burned away, men out to gain a buck in the Gentile world wrote and distributed documents partly based on the truth of the scrolls and partly based on lies with traceable roots to gnostic or pagan origin, heresy.

The truth behind the teachings - whatever was in those scrolls that were lost for good never to be found in some cave or underground tavern, has to be matched and verified with other historical references to prove it's validity. That's when we start hearing all this info about Essenes.

The teachings match the references and give us clarification that John the Baptizer, Peter, James, and Jesus practiced Essene observance, and they traced their heritage back to Elijah, back to Moses, and back to Enoch. Enoch was the founder.

Paul was opposed by all of them and called a liar, and it was his lying and influence behind the new Testament scripture. For example, the Epistles of Peter are attributed to Peter but it is obvious that Paul wrote them.

with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled
- The first Epistle of St. Peter the Apostle, but really Paul

And they should learn by means of the Prophet that God desires mercy and not sacrifice, even before the coming of the true Prophet, who was to reject at once the sacrifices and the place
True Teachings of Peter the Apostle from The Clementia

1. The observance of how we talk, and observance of our body language. It was written to always talk calmly. Certain rules are given to prevent arguing with people. To never talk over an individual who is speaking and give them time to finish. To agree verbally with a group of people if more than one person agrees together and you disagree, you are not to argue your view and this was written. To Never anger. To Never be jealous. To avoid all negative emotions. Every word spoken was to be carefully considered so that it be righteous. An extremely strong emphasis was on righteousness. The mystery teaching go very deep into this - it was taught that every thought in our minds produce emotions, and we train ourselves daily to produce positive thoughts producing positive emotions - specifically because they believed in one united unconscious of earth, unconscious that is one with all the souls on earth, and these positive vibrations affect the whole world in a positive unconsciously.

2. It was determined that God no longer wanted sacrifice but a free will offering of prayer and a self sacrifice of giving ones self. In this respect they saw All meat to be unclean. The apostle Peter said "I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables." John the Baptist said "I live on cane and roots and tree-food."(Not the locust lie in the NT - the Greek were mocking him in saying that.) Observance of acting peacefully to every living being on earth.

3. Detachment from the world, literally. For an initial conquest, a person would separate themselves from the world for 3 years. Some took this to an extreme literal extent and lived in the wilderness, such as John. It was seen as a strange thing to the general public, it was a mockery in those days to say 'the only thing the Essenes are good for is loving palm trees,' but it was because they would find a secluded area in the wilderness and pray sitting against a tree like Buddha. The Essenes tied everything they did to scripture. The scripture pf 'preparing a way in the wilderness' was the origin of why the Qumran sect was there.

4. Baptism. Cold water, but warm water can be used. Not only sprinkling the water and blessing people - but fully submerging in the cold water. The water is for purification to wash away sin. To wash away all unholy words from our mouth. A symbolic purification from the inside.

Your will is that we cleanse ourselves before (...) and he established for himself a statute of atonement (...) and to be in righteous purity and he shall bathe in water and sprinkle upon (...) (...) And then they return from the water (...) cleansing His people in the waters of bathing. And he shall say in response : "Blessed are You (...) (...) Your purification in Your glory (...) (...) eternally. And today
Scroll 4Q414 Fragment 12

5. The idea of pleasure was strictly forbidden, suggesting that pleasure is selfish. This ties partly into the reason why they were celibate. Partly because women of that day as today could not be trusted and were considered unworthy. But even when they did marry, after they had children they would never have sex again, because it was a pleasure. The Way was considered for hard work - all working for the resurrection of the soul.

He Himself also, according to the appointment of His Father, anoints with similar oil every one of the pious when they come to His kingdom, for their refreshment after their labours, as having got over the difficulties of the way; so that their light may shine, and being filled with the Holy Spirit, they may be endowed with immortality
Clementine Literature Chapter XLV. The True Prophet: Why Called the Christ.

6. Prayer was very important, before and after each meal. They woke up before dawn to pray as a symbol that the rising sun would bring about a good day, giving thanks to the day before it started - the affirmation of positive thoughts and vibrations before the risen sun, so that when the sun did rise the whole day was positive. It was believed that the first thought in the morning could have precedence over the whole day.

7. Eat alone, do not share meals with unfaithful people. Fasting was considered more pure than eating. But eating was regarded as a sacred thing and they would not let others eat with them. They strictly taught not to overindulge.

8. The act of giving material things, such as feeding somebody or giving them a place to sleep, this group would already have food and housing set aside for any travelers. Though we see the earth taking, giving is a recognized universal act of nature and understood communication between all living things, accepted by their common soul. They went to the extremes, such as giving everything they had and receiving only enough to be ok.

6. Being a servant and giving oneself. It was a custom of this group to wash the feet of others. As we hear Jesus in the bible washing feet, it is a direct reference. It was a community rule to call the leader 'Master.' A lot of what Jesus did was take the philosophy a step further, so when they called him master he said to learn by his example that even he is a servant among them.

originally posted by: Entreri06


I see people ALL the time say "god is love". Well how can the atrocities of the Old Testament be attributed to a being that is love personified?

IMHO it's really lazy and illogical thinking. Kinda when your girlfriend/wife accuses you of "your here but your not here". Or your boss tells you to think outside the box....

It's when they (boss/wife) don't even know what they want but are mad at you for not giving it to them.

But back to the point. How can you say some one who.....

Ordered the genocide of the philistines

Caused the flood killing all but one family

Sends all unbelievers to burn in hell

Tortured job over a bet with the devil

Ordered a father to murder his son

Really the list goes on and on, so how can you call that guy LOVE incarnate??

Back to page 1 of this thread.

look at the title of this thread ..for the readers here...

" God is Love... Except when he's committing genocide..."


Now I am going to point out the pabulum which often take place in threads like this one as I did in an earlier post Illustrating the "Time warp techniques " so popular today.

A time warp technique is where someone takes an event way back in history and then tries to hold everyone else today accountable for it today...responsible and guilty as charged for those historical events.

Now here are the charges..

Ordered the genocide of the philistines

Caused the flood killing all but one family

Sends all unbelievers to burn in hell

Tortured job over a bet with the devil

Ordered a father to murder his son

Really the list goes on and on, so how can you call that guy LOVE incarnate??

Now how many of you were around back then.


furthermore how many genocides have taken place in the last 100 years...the time of science..the time of wise men..of sophists in government ..men of logic and reason...the Illuminated educated wise sophists running things.

If you don't understand of what it is I am talking about here...I will illustrate..

from R G Rummels dissertation on "Democide."

His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.

No matter how you try to cut it ..this is a lot of people in the last 100 years. and killed by their own governments..by democracy. Yet it is necessary for the program being run on us to stick us back in a time warp to make us guilty of such horrible events.


Our own president just tried this to us the other day in the news while supporting another religion and another philosophy. ..the same time warp techniques. I submit to you readers that the Presidents position is from the same stable of logic and reason...or Illogic and non reason once you know.

www.washingtonpost.com...

For none of us were around back then..none of us owned slaves..et al...but it is necessary for the nature of the guilt program for us to be guilty sufficient to silence or censor us into compliance and non thinking..so that this other program can default through....unquestioned and unchallenged.

But once you know some historical perspective the picture changes.

Be very very careful of guilt techniques and guilt manipulations in order to silence you and prevent you from thinking.

The womens groups tried this one before the last 2 year election with "The War on Women." It had been so used and overused that it became predictable and people weren't buying into it . The laughed to scorn with it. It became "Wolfie>"

I will be gratified to see more people catching on to these other movements using and misusing such guilt programming and default positions ..and also laughing them to scorn in like manner to the womens positions.

When you see enough of this kind of thing going on you begin to recognize a pattern...a predictable pattern. You can see them coming....ad naseum.

Learn to spot the Wolfieness in these types of posts and OPs.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

Tough love.

Concerning my previous post about the recent speech by the President and before the National Prayer Breakfast, I am going to illustrate how to think and detect the nonsense trying to pass for intelligent and reason here on this. Hopefully you will catch on to how this is used in the repetitive "Time Warp Technique " so often used and misused by those speaking on these boards and other against Christianity or anything Christian and promoting science as the way to go and make one a better person.

Here..from this article though there is a lot more coverage on it.

www.washingtonpost.com...

“Humanity has been grappling with these questions throughout human history. And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”

This is textbook of the "Time Warp Technique" so popular today in order to get Believers to be silent or censor them and allow others to default through...unquestioned and unchallenged.

I am going to illustrate from history the problem with this kind of logic and reason...

Concerning the Crusades. First off I think the Crusades were a phony. Whatever they were doing down in the Middle East or back then Asia Minor or Palestine..it was not the reasons given in many of the history books. There was no religious reason for Christians to get Jerusalem back ..then or now as well.

For all one has to do is read one's Bible or the Word to figure it out. There is nothing holy about that place at all. Now true a lot of history took place there...but a lot of history also took place in other parts of the world. I am not against history or learning history ..more of us should know history. If it were so more of us would not be so easily bamboozled by the reasoning of Atheists, non believers or sophists ..particularly on boards like this one...or any other boards or conversations.

From the Olde Testament ..there were two primary things the Hebrews were to do...Keep Gods Word...and out of a certain line was to come the Messiah...that is it.

In keeping Gods word and carrying out the line of the Messiah..the Hebrews were to show that they were separate from the nations surrounding them..and not defile themselves as did these nations who inhabited the land before them. In like manner to Noah and his wife and sons and their wives..they were to be perfect in their generations...and not defile themselves.

But the Hebrews and particularly their leadership did exactly that...carried on in the religions of the nations surrounding them and in this defiled themselves while claiming to keep the Law of Moses in all aspects. They even boasted of this.

But.....

They did preserve God's word..particularly the Olde Testament and we have this record unto this day if you know how and why they did it.

The Hebrew language...like many languages of those times..letters were also numbers. And the Hebrew Scribes knew every passage of the OLde TEstament..and how many letters were in each sentence...and how to add them up. If there was any error In that sentence..the numbers would not correctly add up. This was a type of spell check before computers were around. And this is how Gods Word was preserved in the Olde Testament.

Most people are never told this ..so that certain ideas and concepts can be defaulted through in such debates like those taking place on this board.
Once you know this about the olde way of "Spell Check " using the number technique you realize how ridiculous the argument points are about how the Word was changed and not preserved.

What you will learn if you can ask a knowledgeable Jew today...they will tell you that the King James Version is the closest translation over to English that is possible to the Hebrew with the OLde Spell Check. Particularly in the Olde Testament. Not the New King James but the AV 1611.

Almost all of the new versions have come out in the last 150 to 175 years or so and are derived from the Wescott and Hort translations of the Olde Testament which come from the classical Greek translations...not from the Masoretic Hebrew writings. The Classical Greek Olde Testament will not spell check as does the Hebrew writings.
That is how one knows...and this is a piece of knowledge often not told to Christians today ..even by their ministers and it ought not to be this way.

And most Churches today are using the NIV Or something other than a King James AV 1611.


Now back to the Crusades....
There is no such instruction for Christianity ever to be spread by the Sword or by Burning at the stake...ever. You will not find this instruction in the New Testament.

If you know and understand this ..you will realize that any Church which so carries on is not following God's Word and New Testament instruction.but has lost the candlestick. Does this mean that all under that church are lost..no it does not.
But it does mean that that church and it's leadership are following a counterfeit system and a counterfeit practice.
All you have to do then is learn the name of the counterfeiter.

The other reason..all this time warp is nonsense works on many people..is that so few people know enough history to understand that it was Islam which was first on the move to invade Europe...back in the late 600s AD and high into France by 732 AD when their invasion was stopped at Tours, France by Charles Martel. This was called the Battle of Tours.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now this was some 300 to 400 years before the first Crusade. But no one wants to let this history out in order to play the Blame Game..the Time Warp Game.

You mean to tell me that the Muslims were not taking slaves....slaughtering people in the conquered areas????

NO one wants to go there...no one wants you to know this history. I stumbled upon it by accident when researching other histories.

DO not ever let anyone ..even the President ..bamboozle you about the Crusades..and turn it into a guilt trip.

As I stated I don't believe the Crusades were the product advertised and they certainly were not an example of Christianity...nor a Christian Instruction from the New Testament. They cannot be justified by the New Testament. NO way. But don't let anyone put a guilt trip on you for this history..for when you see the big picture of history and what happened it makes the Atheists claims as well as Muslim claims Wolfie. Phony. The Muslims were first on the move and invading Europe..not the Crusaders invading ...but the Muslims. NO one teaches this history today.
This is why the guilt trip works so effectively..unless you know or are taught.

NO one wants you to know this history so that they can default through and get you to be silent ..to censor you..even our President.

This is long enough and I will make another post before running out of characters.

Orangetom

Concerning the Inquisition.

There is no instruction in the New Testament for any church to make conversions by the Sword or burning at the stake. You will not find it. Any church which so carries on has lost the candlestick or put another way...has defiled itself. Such a church is not following the Word...but another word and another god. And Rome is not the only such church ..there are others.

You can find this historical track record and the Churches persecuted and burned at the stake in

John Fox and his " Foxes Book of Martyrs."

I have a copy of it right here on my computer desk along with Gail Riplinger's "New Age Bible Versions" which demonstrates the various Bible versions side by side in charts showing the passages and how they were changed and altered through the last 200 years or so. Both OLde and New Testaments.

What Christians do is separate from that which is defiled. Come out from amongst them and be ye separate sayeth the Lord. But to do this you have to know the histories..and compare this to the Word.



What is the method of this world and the religions of this world..including todays Politics...an obviously devout and jealous/zealous religion??
Their method is to not allow Believers to come out from amongst them and be separate and that they have the ability to "Force " Believers to do as they say ..even to go against their religion...and todays government has so stated.

Government today has become the Pharisess of Yesterday....in carrying out government religion and zeal. Government by logic and reason ..is going to force todays churches and their flocks into a position of losing the candlestick and replacing it with government religion.
Government is hell bent on forcing Believers into a counterfeit position. Once again ..all you have to do is figure out the name of the counterfeiter.

If you know of what I am speaking ..you now know the name of the god of the President of the United States...also of the Congress and the Supreme Court. The god of the two party system...because neither political party is teaching this to the people while using logic and reason to prevent thinking..and switch to counterfeits.

You now know enough to ask when did they switch gods (both political parties) and why did they not tell anyone they had done this...??

Remember..."Transparency??"

Think it through..it fits ..so too with losing the candlestick.

And I can demonstrate this truism with other methods concerning the world around us today..and government and it's god ..compared to what is taught in the Word..and God....demonstrate counterfeits and the god of the counterfeits..the liar and deceiver.

There is no such instruction to carry out a Crusade nor an Inquesition..it Is a counterfeit position.

At the same time ..none of us were around then..none of us are guilty of this.

So do not let non believers use this flawed tactic on you to silence you or default through...censor you.

Learn to spot this kind of nonsense ...the Time Warp Technique..when people try to put this on you. Particularly leadership who ought to know better. They are counting on your ignorance and for the most part they are correct.

But now many of you know...

However...ask yourself a question ...and an important one..

Why have your ministers never taught you to put on this knowledge ..this armor??? Why have they never taught you these histories and how they affect your understanding..even understanding of the Word in the face of daily assault and guilt trip/Time warp techniques so popular today...censorship??? Why have your ministers never taught you to spot a counterfeit???

And you Believers need to seriously think that last question through.

Hope this helps some of you,

Orangetom