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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
What are you guys even arguing about?
God loves economy & winners. End of story.
Just seems completely illogical to me when considering his actions.
And the love of money is the root of all evil.
originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: arpgme
And the love of money is the root of all evil.
so then my idea of good and evil are not as strange as you say in other thread.
Love comes from within just as much as hate and fear do.
So material things become good or evil depending on our feelings and uses of them.
Unless you think Love comes from an external source of ourselves.
You cant come back and say God is external and that is where love comes from unless you want change your location.
originally posted by: InhaleExhale
Unless you think Love comes from an external source of ourselves.
You cant come back and say God is external and that is where love comes from unless you want change your location.
I, in my personal opinion, would not call the god of the OT the ONE True GOD, 'that' is a demiurge; an imposter who is desperate to be worshiped for whatever reason. And they dwell in low vibration and 'incite' low vibration in others; not the part of/GOD that springs to mind when I think about it, but then I never actually 'bought' that book, that B.S. was too much to swallow.
His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.
originally posted by: orangetom1999
Here is what is missing even from many of the Believers...
Biblical Love is obedience to God..not to man's logic and reason...not to men's feelings and sentiments. But to God and His Word.
Biblical Love is not what most men think or take for granted or try to default through.
About Slavery....
Slavery is a foolish argument based on the blame game and guilt manipulations so popular today among people who have not taught themselves to think a thing through...or see what others are trying to do by the blame game.
It is foolishness.
Slavery happens because of economic conditions. Economic conditions are very different today..and do not lend themselves well to slavery. SO many people today could not afford slavery because of the maintenance costs of keeping a slave or slaves.
Only public education and a constant barrage of guilt conditioning can dumb people down so far that they do not recognize this about history. Machines have changed so much ..it is not worth ones time to keep slaves today with costs.
Machines are much more efficient than slaves. Places and nations'/peoples keeping slaves are in areas and economies which are very inefficient.
Do not ever let people on here or anywhere else...try to dumb you down with guilt by using the slavery tactic. It is textbook of what tries to pass for intelligence, logic, and reason.
It is just another form of guilt manipulations and guilt programming of the same ilk as is done on the subject of race...and other popular topics to censor competition of thought.
Let me show you people something about genocide ..killing etc etc. You do not have to go back to Olde Testament times to see it happening. It is happening right here today.. .in the last 100 years.
But furthermore ..remember...the last 100 years is the time of educated men ..wise men..men of reason and logic running things. It should be better...than the OLde Testament...but is it?? Not at all. It is a repetition of the same olde thing...if not worse.
originally posted by: Prezbo369
originally posted by: orangetom1999
Here is what is missing even from many of the Believers...
Biblical Love is obedience to God..not to man's logic and reason...not to men's feelings and sentiments. But to God and His Word.
Biblical Love is not what most men think or take for granted or try to default through.
So for this true Scotsman the very best thing you can do, is to stop thinking and just obey........'biblical love'.....like some kind of mindless drone...or slave even...
About Slavery....
Slavery is a foolish argument based on the blame game and guilt manipulations so popular today among people who have not taught themselves to think a thing through...or see what others are trying to do by the blame game.
It is foolishness.
Slavery happens because of economic conditions. Economic conditions are very different today..and do not lend themselves well to slavery. SO many people today could not afford slavery because of the maintenance costs of keeping a slave or slaves.
Only public education and a constant barrage of guilt conditioning can dumb people down so far that they do not recognize this about history. Machines have changed so much ..it is not worth ones time to keep slaves today with costs.
Machines are much more efficient than slaves. Places and nations'/peoples keeping slaves are in areas and economies which are very inefficient.
The god of the bible actively promotes the owning and selling of human beings as property, it was immoral 2000 years ago when jesus failed to abolish it and it's immoral today. Some Christians in 2015 still attempt to excuse this shameful practice........and yes if you promote or excuse slavery, you should feel guilty.
Do not ever let people on here or anywhere else...try to dumb you down with guilt by using the slavery tactic. It is textbook of what tries to pass for intelligence, logic, and reason.
It is just another form of guilt manipulations and guilt programming of the same ilk as is done on the subject of race...and other popular topics to censor competition of thought.
'Censor competition of thought'......isnt that just like 'biblical love'?
The bible has a lot to answer for in regards to race, sex and sexuality. Some Christians attempt to come to terms with this, others (such as yourself) attempt to excuse it.
Let me show you people something about genocide ..killing etc etc. You do not have to go back to Olde Testament times to see it happening. It is happening right here today.. .in the last 100 years.
Yes people do horrible things, but none of them claim to be a god, an all powerful all knowing god that apparently loves everyone. Such a being would have a higher level of responsibility than a group of short haired ape and could never be described as the source of all love and morality.
But furthermore ..remember...the last 100 years is the time of educated men ..wise men..men of reason and logic running things. It should be better...than the OLde Testament...but is it?? Not at all. It is a repetition of the same olde thing...if not worse.
No it's really not the same, or even similar, but it would be if we allowed people like you to keep us suppressed and in the dark ages with 'biblical love'....
So for this true Scotsman the very best thing you can do, is to stop thinking and just obey........'biblical love'.....like some kind of mindless drone...or slave even...
The god of the bible actively promotes the owning and selling of human beings as property, it was immoral 2000 years ago when jesus failed to abolish it and it's immoral today. Some Christians in 2015 still attempt to excuse this shameful practice........and yes if you promote or excuse slavery, you should feel guilty.
'Censor competition of thought'......isnt that just like 'biblical love'?
The bible has a lot to answer for in regards to race, sex and sexuality. Some Christians attempt to come to terms with this, others (such as yourself) attempt to excuse it.
Yes people do horrible things, but none of them claim to be a god, an all powerful all knowing god that apparently loves everyone. Such a being would have a higher level of responsibility than a group of short haired ape and could never be described as the source of all love and morality.
No it's really not the same, or even similar, but it would be if we allowed people like you to keep us suppressed and in the dark ages with 'biblical love'....
The funniest part is homie saying things were better in the OT times..... Totally laughable!!
Rampant slavery, horrible treatment of women, genocide every other week, zero medical treatment that worked, far more radicalized religious fanatics, NO INTER WEB (no ATS :p), zero understanding of the universe.... I could literally go on forever....
There were no good ole days...
originally posted by: Entreri06
a reply to: orangetom1999
If slavery is an economic issue, then why were there slaves before there was money?!?!
The funniest part is homie saying things were better in the OT times..... Totally laughable!!
Rampant slavery, horrible treatment of women, genocide every other week, zero medical treatment that worked, far more radicalized religious fanatics, NO INTER WEB (no ATS :p), zero understanding of the universe.... I could literally go on forever....
There were no good ole days...
You do realize there have been multiple societies that didn't have money or an economy at all, but they still kept slaves....
Slavery is the second oldest profession. Predating any sense of monetary value.... Lol just lol.
Not everything is fixed with capitalism and the government doesn't make everything worse. Modern society has improved every aspect of life. There were no good ole days.
You do realize there have been multiple societies that didn't have money or an economy at all, but they still kept slaves....
Slavery is the second oldest profession. Predating any sense of monetary value.... Lol just lol.
Not everything is fixed with capitalism and the government doesn't make everything worse. Modern society has improved every aspect of life. There were no good ole days.
originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: Prezbo369
Goodness me Prezbo...this is right pitiful of you. No problem though..just pitiful.
I did not say stop thinking. From whence do you get that tack. The Word says let us reason together. It does not say let us emote together. It does not say be a mindless drone as well. Reasoning is not being a mindless drone.
Wow...you should read some history ..of other nations and other religions as well.
ou should also be able to reason ...to yourself and others that Christians today are not responsible for this ..today or yesterday. They have never owned a slave. You have to be educated to try this tack on others and counting on guilt conditioning and guilt programming to pull this one off. ....ie... a public education in emotions.
This does not work on me. I can think it through.
You are taking the same tack that much of todays phony leadership do on Race and other issues. Also sometimes known as "The time warp " technique. Stick someone back in a time warp somewhere and then hold them accountable for what happened way back.
Only public education can dumb someone down with what you are attempting to do here.
But the truth of the matter is that many of the Believers on here are so dumb they bite the hook and let you reel them in.
And it ought not to be this way but it is. Astonishing but true. Politicians do the same thing today to get votes...or silence any competition....censorship.
It just doesn't work on me ...I read history when I can find it.
You cannot be serious here?? Is this what your pubic education/logic and reason tell you?? It is obvious that you are using the "world template here." No problem by me. I merely make note of it.
Race..you mean running a race or winning a race??
As to sex and sexuality...Wow!! Again you cannot be serious here.
I can tell you one thing that you do not find in the Word. There is no such instruction to define who and what you are by sex and sexuality. Believers define themselves by the God who lives in them daily.
I know this about sex and sexuality because the nations surrounding Ancient Israel were already doing this very thing...particularly around their festivals and holydays. This pattern was rejected by the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible did not say that people do not have sex or sexuality..but not to so define themselves.
What god are you attempting to define here by sex, sexuality, and race?? For you see..these are all things of the flesh..not of the Spirit. What spirit is it of which you are speaking?? By name please??
Goodness me..."Loves everyone???" Wow..from whence did you get that?? You have bought into a counterfeit position here!! You realize this correct?? I don't think you are even aware of this. Don't take offense here...because I have seen and heard so called Christian Ministers teaching the same pablum.
Somewhere in the New Testament it states...Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated..even before they were born..neither having done any good or evil...that the purpose of God according to election might stand.
This passage is a proof that God does not love everyone. What are you thinking here??
By the way..it ought not to be this way ..but there are Believers out here who just don't know and it ought not be this way but it is. I do believe some of their ministers set them up to not know. You guys must really run them around in circles and set the hook and reel them in.
Oh good grief..this isn't even good plea bargaining. You don't need me to suppress you or anyone else. You are doing a good job of suppression yourself and reeling in Believers who just don't know enough to catch you in the act. Bon appetit!!
Another 50 years of "Democide" and we will be back to the dark ages. And it is coming. Make no mistake.
In my life I try not to bother anyone or be bothered. From time to time when I get tired of such pablum as you are wnt to put on here..I feel like responding. No problem.
I don't bother working to convert or educate in such boards but often post for the Believers...perhapsed some of them can wake up..but I don't put much stock in it.with what often passes for ministers today. They are full of sugar and not Salt.
We are the Salt of the earth not the sugar.
originally posted by: orangetom1999
originally posted by: Entreri06
a reply to: orangetom1999
If slavery is an economic issue, then why were there slaves before there was money?!?!
The funniest part is homie saying things were better in the OT times..... Totally laughable!!
Rampant slavery, horrible treatment of women, genocide every other week, zero medical treatment that worked, far more radicalized religious fanatics, NO INTER WEB (no ATS :p), zero understanding of the universe.... I could literally go on forever....
There were no good ole days...
You do realize there have been multiple societies that didn't have money or an economy at all, but they still kept slaves....
Slavery is the second oldest profession. Predating any sense of monetary value.... Lol just lol.
Not everything is fixed with capitalism and the government doesn't make everything worse. Modern society has improved every aspect of life. There were no good ole days.
Apparently I missed this post of yours and will reply slightly out of order. My apologies for missing it.
Ok....wow!!
You cannot be serious about this post...????
You seem to have totally missed the context of my post and instead trying to slip in your time warp context. NO problem by me.
I stated that todays economics does not lend itself to slavery of the type done years ago..because of the maintenance problems with slaves. Machines are much more efficient than slavery.
The issue today is how to service and keep replenished ..the machines. Understand now??
I can go around a long time on the issue of money and economics...even in yesteryears. It did not take people long to figure out money..or whatever was most swappable became money. They did not need a government expert to define it for them. People are quite capable of figuring this out for themselves.
This is like really base....not worthy of the topic line here , nor of your efforts.
You do realize there have been multiple societies that didn't have money or an economy at all, but they still kept slaves....
You mean people back then were so dumb they did not figure out to trade or barter slaves??? What are you thinking??
Money is just more of a standardized form of barter. People exchanged money instead of property provided whatever you are using as money is recognized as a storehouse of value. People use the standardized money or storehouse of value to get property.
No expert needed here.
Slavery is the second oldest profession. Predating any sense of monetary value.... Lol just lol.
I don't think so. It is quite obvious to thinking people that there was a sense of monetary value with the Oldest Profession ....unless you went to public school and believed much of the pablum you were spoon-fed and someone set the hook in you...and reeled you in.
Not everything is fixed with capitalism and the government doesn't make everything worse. Modern society has improved every aspect of life. There were no good ole days.
LOL LOL LOL...Stop..Please Stop...
Modern Society has improved every aspect of life in spite of government. Particularly if you two are an example of todays improvement...and light.
And I am not arguing for good olde days. I am showing Light..not light.
You two need some serious practice. Wow!!
No problem. Have at it.
Bon Appetit!!
Thanks for your post/posts,
Orangetom
originally posted by: Prezbo369
originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: Prezbo369
Goodness me Prezbo...this is right pitiful of you. No problem though..just pitiful.
Methinks I hit a nerve...
I did not say stop thinking. From whence do you get that tack. The Word says let us reason together. It does not say let us emote together. It does not say be a mindless drone as well. Reasoning is not being a mindless drone.
No you said:
"Biblical Love is obedience to God..not to man's logic and reason...not to men's feelings and sentiments. But to God and His Word."
So logic and reason are thrown out of the window and replaced with a vague 2000 year old book of stories about stories, and all of a sudden you want to reason? hmm. You should get you're beliefs and superstitions straight before attempting to argue their veracity.
Wow...you should read some history ..of other nations and other religions as well.
We're talking about your god, not other countries or religions, anyone would think you're attempting to deflect or smokescreen your way of of a tight spot here....lol
ou should also be able to reason ...to yourself and others that Christians today are not responsible for this ..today or yesterday. They have never owned a slave. You have to be educated to try this tack on others and counting on guilt conditioning and guilt programming to pull this one off. ....ie... a public education in emotions.
This does not work on me. I can think it through.
I've not blamed you nor any christians for anything (other than maybe naivety) so please keep your strawman, however you seem to be itching to play the victim here, that is par for the course though....
You are taking the same tack that much of todays phony leadership do on Race and other issues. Also sometimes known as "The time warp " technique. Stick someone back in a time warp somewhere and then hold them accountable for what happened way back.
Only public education can dumb someone down with what you are attempting to do here.
I think only home school education would lead someone to make the ridiculous leaps you make, and the irrational hatred of anything governmental. And oh yeah, more playing the victim.
But the truth of the matter is that many of the Believers on here are so dumb they bite the hook and let you reel them in.
But not you! you're obviously one of the smart ones that has gotten it right! right?
And it ought not to be this way but it is. Astonishing but true. Politicians do the same thing today to get votes...or silence any competition....censorship.
More anti government political BS that has no place here. I bet you also deny climate change and evolution right?
It just doesn't work on me ...I read history when I can find it.
No you're cut from a different cloth alright...
You cannot be serious here?? Is this what your pubic education/logic and reason tell you?? It is obvious that you are using the "world template here." No problem by me. I merely make note of it.
Race..you mean running a race or winning a race??
As to sex and sexuality...Wow!! Again you cannot be serious here.
I can tell you one thing that you do not find in the Word. There is no such instruction to define who and what you are by sex and sexuality. Believers define themselves by the God who lives in them daily.
I know this about sex and sexuality because the nations surrounding Ancient Israel were already doing this very thing...particularly around their festivals and holydays. This pattern was rejected by the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible did not say that people do not have sex or sexuality..but not to so define themselves.
You're either playing ignorant here, or you truly are unaware of the detrimental influences your collection of superstitions has had on gay people, people of different race/color and females over the past 2000 years, but i'm inclined to think it's the latter...
What god are you attempting to define here by sex, sexuality, and race?? For you see..these are all things of the flesh..not of the Spirit. What spirit is it of which you are speaking?? By name please??
I have no idea what your imagination has conjured up when you say 'spirit', so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Goodness me..."Loves everyone???" Wow..from whence did you get that?? You have bought into a counterfeit position here!! You realize this correct?? I don't think you are even aware of this. Don't take offense here...because I have seen and heard so called Christian Ministers teaching the same pablum.
I think your zealousness is leading you to post nonsense. Do you think about what you're posting before you type it out? or do you let 'biblical love' take the wheel?
Somewhere in the New Testament it states...Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated..even before they were born..neither having done any good or evil...that the purpose of God according to election might stand.
An apparent god that loves and hates, it's almost asthough it's just a mere human....
This passage is a proof that God does not love everyone. What are you thinking here??
There are plenty of passages that do claim the god character in the bible does claim to love everyone, and that's the problem when you have a vague collection of stories about stories from a menagerie of anonymous authors...
By the way..it ought not to be this way ..but there are Believers out here who just don't know and it ought not be this way but it is. I do believe some of their ministers set them up to not know. You guys must really run them around in circles and set the hook and reel them in.
But not you! not this true scotsman.....lol
Oh good grief..this isn't even good plea bargaining. You don't need me to suppress you or anyone else. You are doing a good job of suppression yourself and reeling in Believers who just don't know enough to catch you in the act. Bon appetit!!
Another 50 years of "Democide" and we will be back to the dark ages. And it is coming. Make no mistake.
Thanks Obama....right? you can't help yourself can you?
In my life I try not to bother anyone or be bothered. From time to time when I get tired of such pablum as you are wnt to put on here..I feel like responding. No problem.
I don't bother working to convert or educate in such boards but often post for the Believers...perhapsed some of them can wake up..but I don't put much stock in it.with what often passes for ministers today. They are full of sugar and not Salt.
We are the Salt of the earth not the sugar.
Anyone that has to describe themselves as 'the Salt of the earth' is anything but. However salted fish were often kept in barrels.