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God is Love... Except when he's committing genocide...

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posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Decent people do NOT 'need religion' to know the difference between right and wrong.


Wow!!! This is an example of modern education. One of the ways an archeologist knows a site is of animal verses human origins..is evidence of worship. It is one of the indexes of a human site.

As to decent people not needing religion....to know the difference between right and wrong... Wow!!

How does this explain a politician. What religion are they practicing as they are definitely devout and zealous about it.
And one is often given to ask if Politicians know the difference in right and wrong as they take more from people who earned it and give it to those who do not earn it.

The media too..what religion are they practicing concerning right and wrong??

You might want to rethink your view of right and wrong and hence your understanding of religion.

NO rocket material needed here folks.

Orangetom




posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

amazingly enough... most politicians are not only trained liars

but most also consider themselves to be Christian... at least on this side of the planet




posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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Entreri06



The bible says they were evil giant people. History says they were the Sumerians (I think, it's irrelevant to the point.). Some of the most advanced people on the planet at one time. So if they weren't evil giant people. Then in was genocide.


From KJV versions NUmbrers 13..

32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.



Cannibals....giant Cannibals.


Orangetom



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999


From KJV

LOL!!! Go back and read about translations and the vulnerabilities of the population who consume 'publicly released' texts.

Also, do some research into the origins of the KJV. And WHO edited and translated it. And WHY they did.
Then - take a look at the English Civil War.
(hint: it's about how imposed religion and unfair taxes effect people).

If you need links, let me know.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999


One of the ways an archeologist knows a site is of animal verses human origins..is evidence of worship. It is one of the indexes of a human site.

And the OTHER ways they know are: pottery, art, evidence of organized communities in caves with firepits, writings, burials, etc.

No matter whether you like it or not - whether or not 'worship' is an exclusively human thing - it is EVIDENT that "worship" is NOT REQUIRED for civil behavior to be passed down from generatino to generation.

Perhaps 'worship' is simply a sign of being hopelessly lost and unable to understand what was going around on them.
And listening to 'cheifs' and 'shamans'.

NOW (on the other hand) WE KNOW BETTER - and we are STILL MORAL ANIMALS. No God required. Instead: Humans learning, via science.

The Moral Animal

Then try Non-Zero (same author).

Then come back and tell me that we have to have God to be socially acceptable creatures.

BTW, the books are open to the idea of some divine order being imposed. The fact of the matter is that humans are evolving to NOT need 'worship' to survive. Finally. And I embrace it.

Too bad some bronze-aged poorly educated zealots want to destroy it all.
Oh well - if I see an atom bomb mushroom cloud, I'll run INTO it rather than live anymore with assholes all around me.

edit on 2/9/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:41 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: orangetom1999

amazingly enough... most politicians are not only trained liars

but most also consider themselves to be Christian... at least on this side of the planet



LOL LOL LOL>..I am hard pressed to debate against your point about politicians being trained liars. But if so they cannot be Christians...as per the second part of your post. The two just will not fit together ..or flow together.

I can make the same point about most judges across this nation...and know why it is so.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: orangetom1999


From KJV



LOL!!! Go back and read about translations and the vulnerabilities of the population who consume 'publicly released' texts.


LOL LOL LOL I am thinking here of books on economics and how to balance the budget!!! Publically released texts..by Experts.
The science of Economics.


[Quote]Also, do some research into the origins of the KJV. And WHO edited and translated it. And WHY they did.
Then - take a look at the English Civil War.
(hint: it's about how imposed religion and unfair taxes effect people).


Wow!! The English Civil War of which I know...wound up putting an end to Divine Right of Kings when Charlie was put on the block and his head cut off in 1649.

Unfair taxes...do you mean inflationary money creation...inflation being hidden taxation...depreciation???
What zealous religion is it by modern educated scientific wise men which allows them to create huge amounts of money out of nothing, inflate the economy...and then tax it away from people in the private economy to keep people from outspending the government largess?? What religion is this??


My knowledge of the KJV is that because of the Muslims invading through Constantnople...the Eastern Orthadox church had to flee before this invasion and could not flee into the Roman Catholic areas as there was long and bad blood between these two Churches. The Eastern Orthadox Churches, in escaping the Muslims, fled into northern Europe and particularly Northern Germany taking their documents with them. These documents wound their way into the Lowland Countries and eventually into England where they were studied against the Roman Catholic documents which they already had.

The English in studying these documents realized that they did not say the same thing as the Roman Catholic Versions which they already had. And King James saw the issue here and caused to be commissioned a version in English...though they already had the Great English Bible...because of these scriptural differences of which they became aware when reading the Eastern Orthodox versions which came into their possession.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



Perhaps 'worship' is simply a sign of being hopelessly lost and unable to understand what was going around on them.
And listening to 'cheifs' and 'shamans'.


Agree..I know exactly what you mean here. I have been listening for years to leadership talk about balancing a budget and have yet to see or hear of it being done. Nowdays ..they no longer even talk about it at all...but I remember these chiefs and shamans.

Good point your brought up here.



NOW (on the other hand) WE KNOW BETTER - and we are STILL MORAL ANIMALS. No God required. Instead: Humans learning, via science.

The Moral Animal

Then try Non-Zero (same author).

Then come back and tell me that we have to have God to be socially acceptable creatures.



Wow!! Let us look at the time of science...and what wise men have done in the last 100 years..

Democide..and moral men of wisdom, illumination, intelligence ..

en.wikipedia.org...

Down about two thirds of the way down this article you see this gem...by R J Rummel...


His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.


And here by you...


Too bad some bronze-aged poorly educated zealots want to destroy it all.
Oh well - if I see an atom bomb mushroom cloud, I'll run INTO it rather than live anymore with assholes all around me.


It is Highly educated zealots who used to talk about balancing a budget ..which never seem to happen.

It is also highly educated zealots who send our young men off to wars in which we never seem to bring back any spoils.

As to the atom bomb...no thanks. I am not into this kind of drama having stepped out of a nuclear reactor not two hours ago. Pressurized water reactor/PWR...type A2W.


Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

While I agree with your points about war and budgeting, I don't see what that has to do with the topic of the thread.
Perhaps it's just that people 'worship' money and power -
and that INCLUDES religious people. Picture, if you will, the mega-church mansion-dwellers driving around in their choice of a fleet of luxury cars to a yacht.

They are NO BETTER than the corporate moguls - it is all about worshipping money. So - in that case, the idea of "God" has not made a DENT in the self-centered greed and power-slinging, the philandering and chicanery....

Religion is a weapon OR a tool, depending on who is wielding it. Just like a gun.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: orangetom1999

While I agree with your points about war and budgeting, I don't see what that has to do with the topic of the thread.
Perhaps it's just that people 'worship' money and power -
and that INCLUDES religious people. Picture, if you will, the mega-church mansion-dwellers driving around in their choice of a fleet of luxury cars to a yacht.


Correct...religious people worship money and power...and with a zeal for so doing. Much of this is concealed..hidden from the view of those over whom it intends to lord. This is the track record of men..and it is also the track record of Politics..back then and also today. What this has to do with the topic at hand is that this zeal is also an index of another religion and another faith..and often the one not advertised to the public...ie..politics.




They are NO BETTER than the corporate moguls - it is all about worshipping money. So - in that case, the idea of "God" has not made a DENT in the self-centered greed and power-slinging, the philandering and chicanery....


It is indeed...which is also a definition of a devout and zealous religion called Politics which is so obviously in competition with Christian values and beliefs...except at election time when they need the votes.


Religion is a weapon OR a tool, depending on who is wielding it. Just like a gun.


Religion is indeed a weapon or tool..and it is also the most powerful economic and political tool and almost the sole decider or determiner of how and what a will be a peoples or nations economic condition.

One more thing...and those versed in this history know what I am saying here. The Church is not an organization..a corporate entity. For corporate status..even 501c corporate status...is a creature of the state..created for and by the state..this means separation of church and state is a hoax..a lie..and a deceit. A church should never be subsidized by tax write offs..for this is not separation on the part of both the churches and the government. This is a price support by government for the purpose of controlling the churches.
It is a lie and deceit by both the churches and government. It is a counterfeit position by both the churches and government. Now all I have to do once again is ask the name of the counterfeiter.
Now I will know the name of the god of the United States Government and also many of the so called Christian Churches out here. For they are obviously in bed together.



Also the church is an organism...not a organization..the church meets and the church goes home. The church is the people..the assembly. Not the building.
I was surprised to find out that even many Believers did not understand this.

The government and churches are both so hip deep in this lie and deceit.

Thanks,
Orangetom


edit on 10-2-2015 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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I'm a little confused at this point, in orangedoms point? I think I agree, but I'm not really sure...


However going back to the top of the page, I know for a fact that people can be moral without religion, & am a perfect example of such.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999


which is also a definition of a devout and zealous religion called Politics which is so obviously in competition with Christian values and beliefs...

This statement interests me.

When there are multiple Politicians who wave the "Christian" banner because they are self-described "devout and zealous" Seven-Mountain-Dominionist, New Apostolic Reformation types - I HARDLY think they are reflecting actual values and beliefs as Christ taught them. But the 'devout and zealous' will vote for them anyway.....
and why?

Because they see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Thanks for your post.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Eunuchorn


I know for a fact that people can be moral without religion, & am a perfect example of such.

Exactly. As am I. And MANY MANY people I know.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999


The government and churches are both so hip deep in this lie and deceit.

Yep.

Add in Wall Street, and ..... well, we see what happened.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 07:04 PM
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SMH, it's kind of bizarre how no one sees how in a human relationship, god would be the wife-beater, and the followers, the broken wife or battered kids. Step out of line, and he pounds you over it. Got an in-law that defies the wife-beater? Wife gets the business end of the fists. Townsfolk don't receive him the way he wants? Takes it out on the family. What bottom-feeder nonsense to uphold & idolize as "good".

The parallels are freaky-scary, Christianity teaches that inflicting severe punishment on all for the wrongs of the few is ok for a god. But if the god were a man, they'd want him drawn & quartered for the spousal/domestic abuse.
edit on 2/10/2015 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs




Could you kindly give us a list of the games you WILL play?


Titanfall
Call of Duty



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:46 PM
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originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Decent people do NOT 'need religion' to know the difference between right and wrong.


Wow!!! This is an example of modern education. One of the ways an archeologist knows a site is of animal verses human origins..is evidence of worship. It is one of the indexes of a human site.

As to decent people not needing religion....to know the difference between right and wrong... Wow!!

How does this explain a politician. What religion are they practicing as they are definitely devout and zealous about it.
And one is often given to ask if Politicians know the difference in right and wrong as they take more from people who earned it and give it to those who do not earn it.

The media too..what religion are they practicing concerning right and wrong??

You might want to rethink your view of right and wrong and hence your understanding of religion.

NO rocket material needed here folks.

Orangetom








What?!?!

What they look for with arch sites is complexe thinking.. Not religious sites.. Your post was proof of exactly bubkiss....

I guess your meaning humanism. The Darwinianesce phylosophy of doing what's best for the human race.


It's just evolution. Murder is bad for the species because there's less of us. Rape and theft both cause animosity, which is bad for business aka bad for the species aka anti evolution. There's not really any great mystery why we do the things we do biologically.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: Entreri06


What?!?!

What they look for with arch sites is complexe thinking.. Not religious sites.. Your post was proof of exactly bubkiss....

I guess your meaning humanism. The Darwinianesce phylosophy of doing what's best for the human race.


It's just evolution. Murder is bad for the species because there's less of us. Rape and theft both cause animosity, which is bad for business aka bad for the species aka anti evolution. There's not really any great mystery why we do the things we do biologically.



LOL LOL LOL..doing what is best for the human race???? You mean Democide in the last 100 years of some 262 million people by their own governments. Governments invested in Education and Science??? You mean that evolution???? That kind of Upward reach of Mankind???

I also think it is more like GFW Hegel today...dialectic... .."The state is god!"



Oh..and BuzzyWigs..I initially missed this point in your earlier post on this page and only caught it just a bit ago.


Then come back and tell me that we have to have God to be socially acceptable creatures.



This is kind of a sleight of hand and I do not believe most Christians will catch it...they just don't know enough about what is in their Book and also I don't believe most of their ministers bother to teach them.

I have little to no interest in being a socially acceptable creature. This is a useless point to me.

The emphasis of the Word is to be faithful..full of faith ..not to be socially acceptable creatures. This means obedient to The Word...under discipline.

In socially acceptable creatures...this can change like the wind. A thinking person knows this..an emoting person does not.

Christians were often described by the Romans as being of the Sect of the Christians and this is accurate. Sect meaning separated from.

The instruction is to come out from amongst them and be ye separate sayeth the Lord.

It does not say to become a socially acceptable creature.

I could care less about being socially acceptable. I work the back shifts so that I don't have to suffer as much of people or traffic. Where the crowds are I go the other way. I don't care who likes it. I have little use for two legged wildlife.

Socially acceptable is not for me..it changes like the wind and I am not interested in keeping up.

Socially acceptable is not the same thing as a person under discipline of the Word.



Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom


edit on 11-2-2015 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Eunuchorn


However going back to the top of the page, I know for a fact that people can be moral without religion, & am a perfect example of such.



I've been thinking about this...about this point concerning morals ..and in Light of something about the English Civil War and it's aftermath.

Also concerning this from their earlier post by Buzzy Wigs..


No matter whether you like it or not - whether or not 'worship' is an exclusively human thing - it is EVIDENT that "worship" is NOT REQUIRED for civil behavior to be passed down from generatino to generation.

Perhaps 'worship' is simply a sign of being hopelessly lost and unable to understand what was going around on them.
And listening to 'cheifs' and 'shamans'.


What I recall about the English Civil War and its aftermath....Oliver Cromwell tried different things in order to put together a just set of laws ..a just parliament. He dismissed parliament himself ..and even tried to put in ministers thinking he would get just men and men who would bring about righteousness in government. He had to dismiss them as well as the non ministers.

Cromwell's problem was that the thought he could get good men and moral men in office. It is not so.

One will always get bad men in office and one must find ways at law to limit their badness.

This is the dilemma of the founders here in America. We have this illusioin that somehow by education, by enlightenment, by science ..we will get moral good men in office. Not so. We will always tend towards educated illuminated immoral men in office. Men of "Entitlement " Thinking and belief. And this is what we constantly see in todays men of science reason and logic. Amorality. Without morals...only education and a variation of entitlement..or the end justifies the means.

This is the track record of modern educated men if one knows how to read it.

We are going more and more towards Hegelian dialectic in everything and also "The state is god."

Not difficult to see. We have better cars, homes, clothes, a plethora of gadgets but little real experiences in morals or any such thinking..convenience yes...morals no. And many of these people are voters.

They are constantly voting to give away or take from others their stuff. More towards class envy and destruction...

The State is god.

The Irony is that Cromwell thought ministers would be moral and ethical men..not so. No different from most other men.

But our founders had it correct...they knew we would always get bad men in office..and the charter was for the purpost of limiting their badness. And men have been trying to get around this charter or limits ever since..constantly trying.

The hoax is that todays education tries to convince us that we will be able to get moral and ethical men into public office. Not so...you bind them with the chains of the Constitution...and not let them wiggle around or about it.

I never believe in the morality of men...but do believe in the badness of men.

You have to teach a person to be moral and just. You do not have to teach them to do evil..and immoral/amoral.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

We aren't talking about its applicability in politics or the long term conditioned materialism of society & human nature.

We are talking about not needing a god or religious doctrine to agree with you on all those same points. Because I totally agree with your last post, but I was not raised to have any faith or guidance from any God or the bible.



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