Season of the Witch

a reply to: InTheLight

You have to give a person permission to rip out your heart and soul

Sorry but my bull# alarms bells are ringing about this one.

I always enjoy reading your well articulated and wise thoughts ,Bluesma, and you never fail to teach me something along the way.
Thanks and happy holidays to you and yours.
tetra

a reply to: Pitou

When I lived in South Africa about 30 years ago (I was there for a number of years developing military systems), one thing that struck me as seriously odd was that women had no banking rights. Like WTF was up with that? I had to sign so my wife could have an account at the bank. A father (not the mother) had to sign so a daughter could have an account. It was difficult for a woman to get a loan from a bank, a father, brother or husband had to cosign. I can just imagine the mortgage situation, it was easy for me because I'm male, but for a woman it must have been hell. I just remembered as well that I had to get her all of her credit cards, they wouldn't give her credit card accounts in her own name (she was working as well as an R&D secretary and technical writer for military programs).

Now this was just 30 years, not the wild west, renaissance or the dark ages. I think Saudi Arabia and many of the Arab countries are still the same.

Cheers - Dave

Doña Soledad lay on her back. She was smiling at me. I thought that she was the picture of warmth. But at the same time and in spite of her smile, her eyes gave out a feeling of ruthlessness and unbending force.
I asked her how long she had been with don Juan as his woman or apprentice. She made fun of my cautiousness in labelling her, Her answer was seven years.
….she told me to lie down next to her. I knelt on the bed, by her side. In a very soft voice she asked me if I was afraid. I said no, which was the truth. There in her room, at that moment, I was being confronted by an old response of mine, which had manifested itself countless times, a mixture of curiosity and suicidal indifference.
Almost in a whisper she said that she had to be impeccable with me and tell me that our meeting was crucial for both of us.
….Suddenly she sat up. Her face was a few inches from mine. I could see her white teeth shining in the semidarkness of the room. She put her arms around me in an embrace and pulled me on top of her.
My mind was very clear, and yet something was leading me deeper and deeper into a sort of morass. I was experiencing myself as something I had no conception of. Suddenly I knew that I had, somehow, been feeling her feelings all along. She was the strange one. She had mesmerized me with words. She was a cold, old woman. And her designs were not those of youth and vigor, in spite of her vitality and strength.
…a feeling of alarm swept through my body. I wanted to get out of her bed. But there seemed to be an extraordinary force around me that kept me fixed, incapable of moving away. I was paralysed.
She must have felt my realization. All of a sudden she pulled the band that tied her hair and in one swift movement she wrapped it around my neck. I felt the tension of the band on my skin, but somehow it did not feel real.
Don Juan had always said to me that our great enemy is the fact that that we never believe what is happening to us. At the moment doña Soledad was wrapping the cloth like a noose around my throat, I knew what he meant. But even after I had had that intellectual reflection, my body did not react. I remained flaccid, almost indifferent to what seemed to be my death.

Excerpt from:
Carlos Castenada – The Second Ring Of Power

In the above story doña Soledad is a sorceress who has laid a trap for a fellow sorcerer in order to steal his personal power - power she needs to complete her own journey.
The way I see it, women are attracted to the energy that they observe in a man. The courting ritual is an assessment of that energy and its quality as tested under different circumstances. It is not a test as to whether the man in question is able to make them happy, protect them or be a good provider – these are secondary considerations. The difference between the sorceress doña Soledad in the above story and the everyday woman is that the machinations of the everyday woman are instinctive and not the outcome of conscious will. Therefore the ordinary portrait is mostly not as extreme and bold as described in this story.

I love the lyrics to the song: Just A Boy, as sung by Roger Daltrey.
Season of the Witch – indeed!

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

it used to that way in america also not sure when it was changed but I would guess it wasn't that long ago since some on the forum I believe remember the time it was like that. I believe it was Bank of America that first opened up for women but I think they stood alone for quite awhile before others jumped on board.

I would challenge the idea that all the women were just sitting beside the fire with sewing needle in hand. This might of been true for the lords and ladies but I imaging that the majority of the women were so busy they had a hard time finding the time to darn hubby's socks!!! And they worked to earn money also (or barter). In the homes in earlier times through weaving, sewing, candlemaking or whatever but when industiralization came about and began producing these things they ended up in the factories only the money they earned more than likely wasn't legally theirs!!

a reply to: Golden Rule

I think you have it backwards..
it's women that carries a baby and brings it into the world and raises it up through self sacrifice.
In that old days she was taught by the religions that her husband or father is kind of like the high priestess between herself and God and she should obey him as God! Her whole life should focus on him and his goals and desires.. she is tasked with basically a maintenance job- maintain the house by cleaning maintain the health of all in the family by ensuring they are fed and cared for properly and by doing this it frees up the man to delve into his interests and develop his skills, along with his relationship with his God! Which like I said before she was kind of blocked from a direct link to God.
He was to look to god and the talents God gave him too meet his needs.
She was to look to him to provide his needs and develope those talents he wished her to have!
And be happy with just what he chose to give her!
Man had forced women to accept him as her god!

a reply to: dawnstar

I think that even women in the lower classes were doing work that is repetative and mindless. Things like sewing, knitting, scrubbing, even peeling vegetables are acts which do not require mental focus of analysis, choice making or discernment.

Men had tasks that required more of that mental focus, or at least some physical risk which required them to focus on the task at hand. They could not Daydream, reflect, be mentally absent while their body went into automatic mode.
(I repeat again that this is speaking of majority, not all)

a reply to: Bluesma

mmm.... daydreaming in the kitchen while making candles can create a big boom!!!!!

ever mindlessly take out a hot roasting pan with you bare hands???

and well my grandmother made and sold quilts and clothing to get through the depression. Many beautiful quilts that I am sorry but I am sure she put alot of thought and creativity planning not to mention skill in sewing!

I think that even women in the lower classes were doing work that is repetative and mindless. Things like sewing, knitting, scrubbing, even peeling vegetables are acts which do not require mental focus of analysis, choice making or discernment.

but doesn't the brain need a little excercise to develop these skills
and isn't every women gonna find a need for these skills sometimes in their lives?
I mean who will make the choices for the widow after the hubby dies (or flies away with that young pretty sexitary of his?)

I kind of think that the trick to life is to balance the yin and the yang within ourselves. It is only when they are in balance that creation can take place.. it is from within that the creative forces flow and become ideas but it takes working with the outside world- the mental focus, analysis, choices and discernment that brings it into being!

by assigning all those menial tasks to the female gender men just ensured that their belief in their superiority would always be reinforced in the real world.

Your posts here are fascinating and introspective, and seem to be delving into the depths....very scorpio stuff.

Wonderful post, I could not have articulated the things you have said so well and so very clearly, but I feel them all the same.

This really hit home for me. My adult son, well, somewhat of an adult at 23, was over for dinner last night. He is having a tough time and has a lot of growing up to do. I am troubled by his lack of maturity, but that is another discussion. Anyway, we were discussing his boss. The boss is a sort of Mennonite from what I gather. He is living in accordance to the Old Testament in that men and women have very specific gender-based roles, i.e. women don't grow their hair, long skirts, etc. My son has spent some time with his boss's family and is somewhat disturbed by what he sees. I have taught him what some would call "feminists ideals", but I have done so with what I believe is true equality in mind. In other words, men and women share the burdens of life, perhaps not equally, but also not limited by their genders.

I do most of the cooking quite simply, because I am better at it. I still do more of the cleaning, not because I am better at it, but because my standards are different than my husbands. I also have been known to lay ceramic tile, paint the inside and outside of a house, and lay a wood floor with the help of my husband. I take pride in learning new skills, and I am also frugal. We also have a budget, so if I want nice things, I will have to pitch in some physical labor. I am also an artist and I build my own wood supports, so I work with power tools (without my husband). Any woman can do all of these things, if they so desire. Maybe they don't, I think that is okay. Maybe they want to stay home with the kids, I think that is okay too. But, I think that some things between men and women have gotten a little muddy.

I am saddened by some of the responses of the men on this site who seem to be open minded to so many things, but so angry towards relationships with women. I know this a response to pain with past relationships, but to paint women with such a broad brushstroke, well I think they only hurt themselves in the end. Women do as they must to get by, men do the same. We don't know what each other goes through until we are walking in their shoes. Women were oppressed mightily in the past, it is true. What is happening now is a different story, especially depending on which part of the country you live in, and what you do for a living.

Bluesma, you have written some beautiful words that I wholeheartedly agree with. I am worried about the future of relationships between men and women. At the heart of it all, is simply appreciating the opposite sex for what they have to offer that is OPPOSITE, that is the whole point. If you want your partner to be more like your own gender, I suggest you find someone that is your gender, that might make you happier.

Not affording a person the choice of their life experience is oppression, and just because you may be able to make the best of a situation that has been forced on you, doesn't make it beneficial to be oppressed.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Golden Rule

I think you have it backwards..
it's women that carries a baby and brings it into the world and raises it up through self sacrifice.
In the old days she was taught by the religions that ....

ya, in the OLD days. A lot of things happened in the old days. The modern woman who lives in the developed world is able to give free rein to her occult powers now without fear. Witches abound. I would have thought that a title such as 'The Season Of The Witch' would relate to a current season not a bygone season in antiquity.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bluesma

mmm.... daydreaming in the kitchen while making candles can create a big boom!!!!!

ever mindlessly take out a hot roasting pan with you bare hands???

Let's not exagerrate- big boom? I claimed they encourage introspection, leading to knowledge of internal pschological processes.

And yes, besides having been a housewife and mother for many years, I am a cook now- I usually don't feel hot pans anymore, as my hands and arms are full of scar tissue. I still get blisters daily from burns I was not even aware I did.

but doesn't the brain need a little excercise to develop these skills
and isn't every women gonna find a need for these skills sometimes in their lives?

Yes- learning these skills do. That is why female children were taught them very young, so that they become able to do them later without having to "think" about it. The fact remains that their life is not in danger from a dropped stitch. Though a man that goes into automatic mode on the battle field will end up dead- and the violent sounds and action happening around them pulls their attention and survival instincts to focus on that.

]I mean who will make the choices for the widow after the hubby dies (or flies away with that young pretty sexitary of his?)

In the past of many societies, when a womans husband dies or leaves her, she was taken in by other relatives, brothers, parents, or even the husband of a sister, to support her. These skills were what she had to offer in exchange for choice making and someone to work outside the home.

I kind of think that the trick to life is to balance the yin and the yang within ourselves. It is only when they are in balance that creation can take place.. it is from within that the creative forces flow and become ideas but it takes working with the outside world- the mental focus, analysis, choices and discernment that brings it into being!

We are in agreement there.

I think you might have missed the whole point of my post. That these roles enabled men and women to develop specific abilities, that are very different, but both useful and necessary. Introspection and familiarity with the internal world of psychology and nature is just as valuable to a person as is familiarity with the external world of objects and man made systems.

by assigning all those menial tasks to the female gender men just ensured that their belief in their superiority would always be reinforced in the real world.

Yes and no. They ensured that they are masters of the "real" world outside- but as we have become aware in the last few decades, the internal world is influencial upon that world. Our thoughts, emotions, beliefs and ideas effect others and events. Our research into subconscious perception and sensory pathways and intent has shown us that intent and expectation influences outcome. We are impacted in our actions through unrecognized stimuli, like scents we don't realize we are picking up (pheromones, for example), visual perceptions (subliminal stimuli), body language....

What is happening inside the mind is not irrelevant to what is going on outside. Far from it. Knowledge and mastery of what is going on inside is a key factor to not just having to deal with what life gives you, but actually being responsible for what it gives you to deal with!

This "bitterness" about their having more power outside, why are you concerned about that? THIS is the only part of the Patriarchy theory that I agree with, and that I accuse many feminists of being a strong part of. There is other forms of power, that you and women in general can have, probably have already, that you might be ignoring as "irrelevant" or even rejecting as inherently bad. Sitting on a goldmine complaining about the riches another has! It is only bad if left to be bitter and resentful, uncontrolled and chaotic.

originally posted by: Golden Rule
I would have thought that a title such as 'The Season Of The Witch' would relate to a current season not a bygone season in antiquity.

I did not think much about the title, it just arose. (as did the rest, for that matter, at times my subconscious puts together something and it all comes out in writing. I can be just as surprised at the result as anyone else reading it).

In that way, I will plead "guilty" to the accusation of some women not thinking before acting! I have great trust in my subconscious and the way it can take the many bits of information I receive, and down in that basement, put together a new creation, a new view, from all of it. That sorceress inside can sometimes show me connections my intellect was unable to recognize, because it is trapped within the framework of my ego and it's beliefs.

The refernce to "Season" is an association of many ideas, like perhaps cycles we go through, in which we recognize these powers as existing (on both personal and public levels)- times of people questioning publicly- is the female ability to manipulate emotions good or bad? Is my own subconscious my friend or foe?

These questions come and go, in something like cycles. We had witchhunts for a period, and then we moved into a period of denying women have any power (mystical or otherwise), and it seems to me we are in a time of the question arising again. The feminine nature is being questioned again, debates and controversies over it, and of social issues concerning the genders seem (to me) to be on the forefront. Perhaps it is just here on ATS? I get the impression it is a big focus in the United States at the moment.

My reference to the past was an exploration into how a gender can possibly have capacities or skills more developed than other. Because unlike many feminists, I perceive a difference between men and women on the whole
(another reminder, I am using generalities and am aware of exceptions!)
in the way their minds work, in their focus, in their concerns.

It seems to me possible that as far as evolution goes, nature and nurture influence each other over the long run.

But my real concern is here and now- so we have developed certain "specialities" in the genders- how can individuals most benefit from them BOTH? How can a society use them in the most constructive and beneficial ways for all?

The "season" may be the time this ability to manipulate mind comes out of the darkness of denial and subversive bitterness, and becomes an acknowledged and appreciated valuable gift to the society.



Or perhaps it is my own personal season, where I don't limit sharing this only with my closest loved ones, but expose it to the rest of the world. Just might be my own maturing and trust in my sorceress, because she has proven her good intent and trustworthiness.

- That got me flowing again....

To (maybe) help others learn more on using the gifts of the subconscious, I want to describe this process I am defending.

I often have people say,"You obviously put a lot of time and thought into writing this"
Nothing could be further from the truth!


For this OP, it was morning (the time I usually write) I was sitting on the couch and suddenly jumped up, and proclaimed "something is coming!" My husband, who knows me well, stopped whatever he was doing on the computer and said "go ahead! do it now, before it dies!"

The feeling is pretty close to what you experience when you suddenly have to go to the bathroom really bad.
(a wink of the I to Freud and being "anal"- do we become constipated when we fear and restrain this part of ourselves???)

I sat and furiously began writing, pulling up images that were close to what I had arising, and in twenty minutes it was up and I was reading it with surprise.

It is possible that doing something like keeping a journal can facilitate observing what comes out, and becoming familair with this dynamic.

a reply to: artnut

I think you said eloquently what I shouldn't have used so many paragraphs to say.

At the heart of it all, is simply appreciating the opposite sex for what they have to offer that is OPPOSITE, that is the whole point.

It sounds like we have much in common (love me some power tools! I am drawn to those like some claim women are drawn to shoes. My ultimate dream, if I win the lottery, is to have my own Backhoe loader! I swoon at the thought of it..)

a reply to: Golden Rule

hmmm
you'd think that all these occult adepts would be driving bmw's and living in mansions
instead you find many of them in hud subsidized housing units raising their kids alone possibly workingob one of those low wage jobs which probably isn't going to pay enough to get her off the public assistance programs.

a reply to: Bluesma

In the past of many societies, when a woman's husband dies or leaves her, she was taken in by other relatives, brothers, parents, or even the husband of a sister, to support her. These skills were what she had to offer in exchange for choice making and someone to work outside the home.

yes and even today we can read how some women in societies still functioning like this are mistreated, burned to death or beaten to death by their "loved ones".

This "bitterness" about their having more power outside, why are you concerned about that?

1. manipulation by playing with another's emotions lives in the same neighborhood as lying in my book and isn't just a talent that women have- men manipulate just as often! Don't believe me ask a man to do something that you are pretty sure he doesn't want to do! 10-1 you come out of the experience promising yourself that you will never ask him to do that again because he has made twice as much work for you when he did it than you would have if you just did it yourself. At least that has been my experience! It must be a talent that daddies teach boys at a young age! Heck I learned quite quickly while my leg was in a splint that it was betters to balance on one leg and do the dishes than it was to expect my husband or sons to do them!

2. I've wandered a bit within my mind over my years on this earth. Kind of knew some things that we to happen before the happened did some automatic writing in my time but well guess what
when my son needed pants to fit him so he could go to school without looking like a nerd I just couldn't manifest the pants, or the money to buy the pants, or the materials necessary to sew the pants! And well when I asked my hubby for it he said he couldn't afford it and then went out and bought a boat!! (like I said in another thread we separated for awhile but well unless I can earn my keep we are worse off than if we stay together! Destroying him financially isn't an option for me!) My son quit school that year, lost out on his chance to go into the navy, and is now working for a local convenience store! All for a boat!!!!!

3. I have four generations of women who lived before me who had to earn that money to live... They couldn't just conjure it up either at some point you have to put some action with all that conjuring or it just stays within the mind. Manipulating someone else to do the action for you just doesn't seem right to me! And well after the broken ankle episode I kind of gave up asking anyone for much of anything.. That was when I really needed the help it didn't come so well I don't want it now! Something could be broken for years and if I can't fix it I will tell my husband that it's broke but if he chooses not to do anything about it I will just do without it!

4. We live in an economy now that women pretty much have to go out into the world and work (I really think that most did before also) and since we have to well we should also be enjoying an equal footing. Which means not only equal pay but also not getting stuck with the full time menial job that we were assigned ages ago! Just the way the social service system was designed in the US has played a great part in the current economic system. The gov't and business sectors have used it to enrich themselves at taxpayer's expense.. And they are gonna drop the ball soon and it's gonna be very painful for those who are relying on the gov't for their food and shelter.. We needed that equal footing decades ago! And all the new age theories in the world isn't gonna help that! The only way you will stand a chance of manifesting food when you are hungry with just thought is if you find a nice secluded area where no one can notice that nice garden full of vegatables ready for the picking popping up overnight.

a reply to: Bluesma

have you gotten into the spot where you suddenly know something amazing just to have your "sorceress" tell you hey you can't know that and suddenly have no idea what you knew??? This was one of the things that kind of convinced me that it's real.
My journal turned out to be a book. Kind of fictional but well in many ways much too dark for me to be feel right about sharing. Some things have happened many that would be considered impossible when it was written is now in the process of being, and well some that will not happen for centuries if at all.
I am kind of at a loss as to what it was trying to show me but I still believe that it is a POSSIBLE future, one that could be.
In that future there are genetically engineered warriors that fight our battle. It's not a choice that they have. Although human in many respects they are man made creations and as thus are the property of their creators. Guess what it doesn't matter if they are male or female (still need the two to carry on those special genes to future generations) they are still warriors and expected to fight in wars..
I see it as kind of funny that today so many seem to want to remove such a choice from women on the grounds that they are different in so many ways (strength in just a small fraction of the perceived differences that would make them not effective on the battlefield) but yet in the future with just a few tweaks of the genes to enable them to be stronger well they end up without the choice not to fight.. the warriors weren't the only group engineered there were farmers and merchants and on and on who also had no choice.

if we can't allow others of our own kind to live without pushing them into these preconceived positions that we were taught "God" created us to be in aren't we heading for that dark world in the future where we will be genetically engineered by the masters for one set role and not finding any choice as to the matter???

originally posted by: dawnstar

yes and even today we can read how some women in societies still functioning like this are mistreated, burned to death or beaten to death by their "loved ones".

That does happen, yes. It is irrelevant to what i point out about our particular state of being right now.
Our anscestors did similar things. Our anscestors still reproduced, and their brains evolved, and now we can use technology to observe a difference in the way mens and womens brains process.

The intent of this thread is not to argue for or against sexist oppression, either in the past or present, nor here or there.
It is a reflection on some of the effects that has had upon our biology and mental skills through time. I admit to pointing out a potential benefit arising from this- it is often a habit of mine to look at past experiences be they pleasurable or not, failures or successes, mistakes or not, and look for the lesson, insight or skill that can be pulled from them.
(as a side note, in my own experience, I find it is the mistakes, failures, or unpleasant events that I often gain the most from in the long term!)

1. manipulation by playing with another's emotions

Have you ever hugged your child and said soothing words to him/her? You have manipulated their emotions.
Have you ever said or done anything that sparked an emotional response in another? You have manipulated emotions.
Some women take that very seriously, as a something to do with a sense of responsibility,
Some take it lightly, as a game to play. I am hoping to encourage the serious respect of emotional manipulation as a power not to be abused.

men manipulate just as often! Don't believe me ask a man to do something that you are pretty sure he doesn't want to do! 10-1 you come out of the experience promising yourself that you will never ask him to do that again because he has made twice as much work for you when he did it than you would have if you just did it yourself.

Did you not get the parts where I said I have been married for 23 years? That I have been a housewife and mother for more than half that time?? I do have a husband, I have asked him to do things, and I did not come out thinking I will never ask him again because it is too much trouble.

I have tried (perhaps failed) to make it clear that men also have a subconscious which subverts and manipulates at times.
I just observe that women more often will recognize their own while men are more likely to go into denial about it and not acknowledge it. They disown that part because frankly it just seems so out their power to influence, they just want to ignore it.

I have experienced the "frying pan? Do we HAVE a frying pan?" sort of thing, and I saw this as a process, that would take my time and effort to nurture. Exactly as I would with my children, I do it with them first time, and I explain, and I have him do things as I watch and offer praise or encouragement accordingly. I know that as the process moves on, he will find pleasurable effects of mastering the skill at hand, and his subconscious will be more helping than opposing with time.

When I undertake learning a new skill or activity, I do the same sort of process- I hated running. I started slow and short, and made sure never to end on a sour note of being pained or uncomfortable. Each time, I went a bit more, until soon I was loving and craving it and anxious to to it again and more.

Yes, those times, I manipulated his emotions- I brought about exchanges which would make the task pleasurable- I caused happy emotions in association with an activity. My kids too, love to cook, for example, because it started out as pleasurable just because they got to be talking and doing something with their mother- that made a happy association. So now, each on their own, they get that happy feeling when they are cooking.

2. I've wandered a bit within my mind over my years on this earth. Kind of knew some things that we to happen before the happened did some automatic writing in my time but well guess what
when my son needed pants to fit him so he could go to school without looking like a nerd I just couldn't manifest the pants, or the money to buy the pants, or the materials necessary to sew the pants! And well when I asked my hubby for it he said he couldn't afford it and then went out and bought a boat!! (like I said in another thread we separated for awhile but well unless I can earn my keep we are worse off than if we stay together! Destroying him financially isn't an option for me!) My son quit school that year, lost out on his chance to go into the navy, and is now working for a local convenience store! All for a boat!!!!!

Your relationship has it's own dynamics, (which are very different from ours in some respects). I don't want to publicly "analyze" what is going on there. My husband collects Checker Cabs, motorcycles, even a jet fighter cockpit. He is always buying things I consider "useless". YET- he has always considered that his family and home are the most important and must be taken care of before heading off into such purchases. He has sold them in times of financial need for the family (and bought them back when the situation allowed it- he just bought back a checker he sold years ago!)

If I were you, I would look deeper into why you were attracted to a man with the values and behaviors he has.
He reflects something you have within you too.

3. I have four generations of women who lived before me who had to earn that money to live... They couldn't just conjure it up either at some point you have to put some action with all that conjuring or it just stays within the mind. Manipulating someone else to do the action for you just doesn't seem right to me!

Point taken and understood. But a partnership is a partnership- if he is better placed to work outside and get money, and you are better at being home and taking care of feeding, clothing, and forming the minds and behaviors of your offspring and his need for emotional security and guidance, what is wrong with agreeing to both use these in your partnership?

It sounds like you are refering to men who do not appreciate what they are getting out of their female partners at home and claim they are "doing nothing". My husband, when complimented on his success, always answers that it is "our" success, and that I had an equal influence in it and he could not have done it alone. He thanks me every time I make a meal or wash his clothes- this is not to "brag" .. but hopefully revealed to inspire- it is possible for a woman to be appreciated by a man for actions other than making money.

I went through a long time of hearing my husband say this to people, and having him insist to me that it is not "his" money, but "ours", and I disagreed! I felt terrible that I didn't work outside the home, and kept asking him if I could buy something as he reacted with sadness and sometimes irritation, that I was asking as if he was my master.

How much of your conflicts with him over money actually came from your own beliefs and values?
Why did you ask him if you could buy pants for your kid, instead of just let him know this was needed and you will be taking care of it? - with the family's budget?