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Season of the Witch

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posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:21 AM
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The benefits of Oppression



I hear the objection rising up already…. But listen first, read carefully, before you voice it!
In any case, most people know, to form a strong rebuttal, you must read carefully, and find all the tiniest holes to poke- surely some will be found, but you have to pay attention to be able to exploit them properly.

Recently, I have found myself observing and considering the battle of the sexes, mostly as it rages in my native land, though it probably goes on everywhere to some degree or another. But the Americans are more explicit on it lately, and the trenches have been dug.

I see differing stances on whether females have been oppressed in the past, as a whole, or if that is a historical lie or misinterpretation. The feminists claim it is true, the masculinists claim it isn’t.

I’m willing to take a personal stance on this- I say true. In a very specific sense- in terms of opportunities available in society.
Was that enforced by men? Ur…yeah, okay, you can say that, but with the blessing of most females, in either more or less conscious or implicit ways. I suspect they didn’t much want to go out on the battlefields, and breathed a sigh of relief that they got to stay at home by the fire. I suspect that part of them didn’t so much like being treated as fragile, but breathed another sigh of relief when they got to be first in the rescue boats when the ship was going down.

Whether it is oppression through privilege or the oppression in lower social status, exterior oppression has certain affects upon the psyche. The person limited to doing embroidery in a castle, repetitive isolated movements in a factory or home, their attention is pushed towards introspection. Instead of discovery and interaction with the exterior world, they become familiar with the interior universe, and the interactions of thought and emotion and biological effect within themselves.



They watch the subtle play of emotional reactions, and how they are influenced by thought, they learn about this. They can, with time, become masters of this. They can learn the secrets of endurance- the internal mechanisms which facilitate one to endure difficult, even painful circumstances. They learn how to change perspective intentionally, in order to call up specific emotions and physical responses.

This is a form of power- which is essentially power over oneself, but not necessarily of the exterior world of objects. However, it can be used to perform the same manipulations of others’ internal worlds, becoming an indirect influence upon the exterior world.

Yes, emotional manipulation becomes possible through oppression, and if it is continued for a long time, is a knowledge that can even be passed on through generations. Mothers once told their daughters behind closed doors things like, “The secret is to feed your man an idea, but make him believe he came up with it all by himself” (followed by instructions or showing through example exactly how that is achieved).

One of my own grudges against feminism comes from my experience with my mother, who was a feminist, and did not allow me to watch shows like “I Love Lucy” because they painted women as sneaky and manipulative… yet also made claims such as “the trick to getting a man to marry you is pretend you don’t want to”, and she also got pregnant twice on purpose to get men to marry her! All I saw there was hypocrisy and it repulsed me.

Perhaps she was wanting to escape this long line of practice, not yet free of it herself, but hoping to free future generations of women from it. This is a difficult feat- “don’t do as I do, do as I say”, is about the best you can try, in those cases.

So I nod to those claims of women being often (I’ll be using generalizations here- let it be known that is what they are- they refer to ratios, to a majority of said group, but not all) masters of covert manipulation.



I suspect it is the roots of the myths of witches, and of « feminine mystique ». The men I am closest to feel almost powerless faced with their internal worlds, so either choose to discount and ignore their emotions as much as possible, or just accept that at times, that part is simply beyond their willful ability to control and they cannot be held accountable for it.

Feminists often insist this is a cop out- men must control their urges of violence, or sex drive, no matter what the external world surrounds them with. I guess I don’t want to take a stand here and now on that, it is not my focus.

What I wish to assert at this time is this-
If women are good at psychological manipulation, is it necessarily bad ?



I reflect upon my experience as a wife partner and a mother- yes, I manipulate my families internal worlds. I do. Yet, after 24 years of this, my husband still comes to me when he is feeling down, or confused, or struggling inside. My children still call me up or show up at home when they are feeling such ways. My sons call me and ask for my advice in matters of the heart and body, my daughter spends a great deal of energy too, on caring for the psychological well being of her mate, and he trusts her entirely.

I aide them to change persepctive, to step into the shoes of others, to adjust their emotions and thoughts to aid them in their endeavors.

The question might not be whether it is good or bad to have a woman manipulate your interior world of emotion, thought, and perspective, but rather- what her intents are.
Does she want you to be happy ? Does she want you to live your wildest and most exciting dreams ? Does she want you to experience your personal power ?

If that is so- what is so bad about letting go and trusting her to skillfully reach inside you and move things around to facilitate that ?

I do understand that trust is not easily given- it shouldn’t be. We should use discernment in choosing partners, whether it be romance or business. Not every one is worthy of your trust.

Something to consider is the idea of people with similar « vibes » attracting each other… though I do not mean anything mystical or magical, though they may be experienced as if they were. But that wordless « something » that makes you feel a relation to another is often a recognition of shared motivations and intents. Superficial people will feel attracted to superficial people. Selfish people will attract selfish people. Selfless martyrs will attract selfless martyrs.



(continued below)




posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:22 AM
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We don’t find ourselves in relationships purely by hazard. We might be largely unconscious of our own influence in things, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Maybe because I am a woman, I consider the subconscious drives as enormously influencial, and still call them « mine »- even though I don’t mean « thoughtfully, consciously, chosen ». I have a sense that my consciously thoughtfully chosen perceptions and actions have a delayed effect upon my subconscious- so even if it seems to be out of my control, it isn’t really.

I have to own it, because only then do I gain the power to manipulate it. In accepting responsibility for it, I can gain access to the internal process which led to the drive or pulsion, and choose a different path in the future. Exactly the way a computer programmer can analyze what part of their programming caused a blip, and re-program for less future blips.

Long ago, when I was younger, I was in an abusive relationship with a narcissist who hated women. When I came to the realization that I was in it because I had a form of « reverse narcissism », and a deep hatred of women too (probably provoked by my attitude towards my mother) I decided I wanted to change that. That didn’t mean « punishing » him or focusing on his problems, but instead, changing my choices.
I wasn’t really a victim of him, I chose him because he acted out the tyrant I had inside me, that was abusing other parts of myself.

(and I probably did so because my subconscious was fed up with my abuse, and wanted me to become consciously aware of it).

Men that find themselves in relationships with abusive women are not there by accident either. Here is a tip from someone who truly wants good for you- grab some responsibility for yourself, and some power- not because it will leave her without punishment, but out of self love ! If you want to have different sorts of relationships in the future ! Don’t just give up. Try to see why your choice of female was the way she was. Why did your internal feminine side identify with her ?

Do you have an internal harpie, subversive and cruel, inside you ? If so, why ? Does she feel unappreciated, or rejected ? Does she feel that she must scream and hit you to get you to hear her ?

Your internal world can seem difficult to read- changeable, irrational… but so worth the effort to get to know. The partnership begins within, and then will appear outside. Not by magic, but by your own drives and actions. Most of the time, the irrational and conflicting feelings and ideas that arise are simply products of your own programming- one day you told yourself « I need to be gentle », the next day you told yourself « I need to be aggressive ». Your subconscious is obeying, but receiving mixed signals on what you ARE.
The subversive nature is not necessarily coming from evil intent, but from faulty communication and misunderstandings.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:25 AM
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gender is a crazy thing huh.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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.... a funny synchronicity- As I got up from the computer after writing this, I saw in the next room my husband watching "How I Met Your Mother", the "Slapsgiving" episode, right where Marshall is meeting White Bird (Lily) to request training in the art of the "Slap of a Million Exploding Suns". He was first rejected by Red Bird (Robin) who refused to take him on as pupil.
White Bird agrees to teach him the secrets of canalizing his power effectively.

I couldn't help laughing when I saw that, and my husband looked up and asked "What?" I could only answer, it's all in finding the right woman!



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

I am very wised up to this.

Women can't get one over on me. No amount of manipulation will work. I worked you out big time!

I actually like women very much. They are very interesting when allowed to be themselves.

Because men had the physical strength option women had to evolve cunning to counteract this.

I respect women as my equal. They have exactly the same place in my eyes as men do. There are differences between us and that is nice and diverse. I hope that women see that as nice, too, and don't go trying to become too much like men.

Women can sense that I am very self aware. I am too much of a challenge for them and they tend to steer clear. I think most women feel comfortable with a man who they feel can be manipulated by their crafty ways.

edit on 14-12-2014 by lonesomerimbaud because: extra bit.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:14 AM
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Just interesting to mention perhaps that John Stuart Mill's 'The Subjection of Women' may be enlightening on whether or not women were oppressed in the past. The image he paints is rather bleak when it comes to their rights and possibilities to self-determination. Many who argue that it wasn't so bad and all that seem to have idealised and romanticised phantasies and images of past decades or centuries and little knowledge on social and gender history, the history of sexuality (as it's directly correlated how women and children are being seen, which changed and differed a lot throughout the centuries) and the history of motherhood, which includes info about the gender relations, how women and mothers were viewed, how their role was in a continuous change and whether these women wanted to be moms in the first place.

I find it a very interesting subject, but I suggest you ('you' in general) dive into it without too many presumptions and just start reading a bit more about it. I think it's very hard to argue that women weren't oppressed if you just look at their legal and social status, or as for instance Mill mentioned: there was no way to (legally) flee abusive husbands and so on.

People seem to argue and reason from a perspective in which it's a bit like today but slightly different. As if women were heard and appreciated for what they are or were taken seriously, and 'just' had a different role pattern than we have today. Things weren't that simple and idyllic at all. And it bothers me slightly how discussions such as this often appear to be partially based around an idealised history that never was really there and when it's based around false premises, it's no good when you're honestly trying to get to the core of something.

One tell-tale sign perhaps may be that men still today (and some women) want us to turn the clock back a couple of decades. I doubt they would want that if it's very inconvenient for them....

I oppose several things in feminism and right now it seems like a silly movement. It's good to argue for equality of all, and to argue for the right to govern your own body, but much seems to be diffused by the focus on complete petty issues and apparent attempts at trying to control minor things.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:25 AM
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Women can sense that I am very self aware. I am too much of a challenge for them and they tend to steer clear. I think most women feel comfortable with a man who they feel can be manipulated by their crafty ways.


That may be true for some women. They may feel it is the only power they have, and rely upon it exclusively.

I suggest that there are women out there who prefer a man who is not easily manipulated! This is the kind of women who tires quickly of a man who is "too nice", or lacking in personal goals and visions for himself. These are the "selfless martyrs", who live to support and drive the dreams and goals of others only. They find themselves attracted to men, who also have no goals or dreams, except to please and fulfill those of a woman. You end up with a vehicle with no driver, nowhere to go- and neither is comfortable with putting forth "selfish" goals of their own.

Personally, I have my own goals, and I like to be a supporter of anothers too. So I was drawn to man who was highly aware of his self and had his own dreams he was willing to put forth, while also willing to be receptive and supportive of mine too. He was willing to take part in an exchange of powers- to let me influence his interior world, and he influence my exterior world. He took me completely out of my environment, for example, and in a sense, I took his mind way out of his familiar environment, revealing different ways of thought and vision (being from a different culture).

One of the things I think gave me the first clue to his nature was that he kept a personal journal. A rare thing for men these days! It showed he was aware of internal "stuff" going on inside him. He didn't quite know how to manipulate it yet, but he was willing to observe and listen to it, and learn about it. From there, I was careful to be sure to have his permission and willingness to engage in a relationship of mutual trust and respect.
edit on 14-12-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: Pitou

Your points are well taken. Like I said, I say "true" to past oppression of women.
Yet, I recognize that humans are creatures of much more ambivalence then they like to admit to themselves.
Our feelings are not always so clear, and the subconscious drives and motives are often playing and invisible (yet powerful) hand.

I imagine two souls, perhaps the collective potential for two genders of humanity- call them Adam and Eve, if you wish.
They are avatars, or archetypes. So, God, or whatever (perhaps their own higher knowledge together) shows them how the laws of physics and evolution are on earth, how human brains will work and develop.

It explains- there are some abilities that can be developed this way, others that must be developed another way.
Some get short term effects, the others are long term.

You cannot do both (since earth has this whole time /space dimension, which provokes polarity, the cat cannot be both dead and alive at the same time, go figure... *God rolls his eyes* ).

So one of you will have to be oppressed on the exterior, to force you to develop that interior force, and the other will have to be pulled to the exterior, (you'll be forced by biology) to develop the skills of manipulating the exterior environment- developing things like muscles, bones, respiratory force, hand-eye coordination, analytical focus and objectification.

The one working on interior force evolution will have to wait several hundreds of years for that to bear fruit and become something you can really share with the world and experience positively, it's a long term thing.
The one working on the exterior force will get to share that and experience it immediately, though it might lose usefulness much later on. It's the short term thing.

So who takes what?
I picture them tossing a coin.....



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 07:14 AM
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Meh .. will take being back in a war zone over dealing with feminists anyday .. far less stress in combat.. had my fill of getting my heart and soul ripped out by women .. by far women are more coldblooded and vindictive than men...
Maybe one day humanity will leave the idiocy behind and learn that men and women are meant to balance each other out rather than tear each other apart ..



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

"A protected class quickly becomes an exploited and exploiting class. Look at women."
~ Marion Zimmer Bradley, Sharra's Exile, 1981

That being said, not all cultures looked at their women as property nor did all groups restrict the legal rights of women, that was mostly Asian and European.
But then we don't hear much about cultures other than those do we?



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

I think that was an excellent post! I am especially in agreement with this part...


What I wish to assert at this time is this-
If women are good at psychological manipulation, is it necessarily bad ?
...
The question might not be whether it is good or bad to have a woman manipulate your interior world of emotion, thought, and perspective, but rather- what her intents are.


I believe the reason many think of the woman as the "heart of the home", is that she does have the intent of using her skill to bring out the very best in her family and has their happiness as the only goal. There have been times when my husband's inner emotional world is in chaos and he doesn't know what to do with it all, feeling like he'll explode... At these times, I am aware that I'm "manipulating" his mind to settle and organize his thoughts and bring him to a place where he can think more clearly and "come out of it". Usually, with a lot of questions. He has to trust me completely with that and our relationship is such that I would never betray that trust.

By the same token, the reason many women are seen as "manipulative bitches" is that they are. They use their skills for their own betterment instead of the betterment of those they love. They don't deserve the trust and give the rest of us a bad name... What I don't know is... are they aware of it?

Very interesting post!

edit on 12/14/2014 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It seems to me that there is some education missing for females on this subject. My personal experiences lead me towards blaming the feminist movement and it's focus upon teaching girls to be more like men- to exteriorize, objectify, seek material compensation and possession, to seek official recognition for work, be aggressive and seek self through others recognition. These are not "bad" things to seek out or develop, but the focus upon them leaves their opposites under-developed, largely uncontrolled, in denial.

Instead of teaching girls it is bad to influence the thoughts and emotions of others, perhaps they should be taught that this is a great power and responsibility. In any case, the power will manifest as soon as their bodies begin to mature and the impact upon males become evident. They can start being conditioned to using that without being consciously aware they are doing it!

"Each person for himself " denies the reality of the influences we have on each other in subtle ways. It denies the fact that the good of the whole impacts the good of the individual- searching purely individual happiness eventually backfires. Social conscience and consciousness of other is just as important as self consciousness.

I find myself thinking of the latest Disney movie- Frozen. Disney always seems to me to be right on the edge of cultural movement in the US. A girl born with a magical secret power, and her family, out of fear that it can be misused on accident, goes into denial repression of it. Of course it doesn't cease to exist, it just builds up and she gains no ability to control it- until it explodes out in destructive ways.
The conclusion and answer to this problem turns out to be love- but in a new twist for Disney, it is not the Prince! Love between sisters.

Acceptance and love of her femininity, even with all it's subjectivity, emotion, vulnerability, lack of ambition for exterior recognition, sentimentality, and humility.

Maybe there should be Good Witch training for girls. To make them aware of their particular form of power, the responsibility that goes with it, and most importantly how to master it consciously in practical ways!



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

For the most part I was raised by my mother. She remarried when I was 12, but for the 7 years prior to that it was just her and I. I am lucky, my mother is a living saint. A true privilege to know, and overwhelmingly so to have been raised by. Perfect? No, she has her flaws. But none of her flaws involve anything relating to maliciousness. My opinion on women is very high, to a point of being angered easily by misogynistic statements.

I was lucky to find a wife that was similar. She is not malicious, and enjoys peace and harmony. She sometimes needs to be "handled" (i.e., me telling her abruptly to cool it), but she does the same to me. We are always together and see the best and worst of each other. Although the worst is pretty far in our past, as we have also made each other better people, embracing the best of what the other is and shedding our worst traits.

I think women can be manipulative in the way you describe. Make someone think what you want, but also think it was their idea...that is a powerful tool. And it is one I learned to use through observation of the women in my life. So obviously men can do it, too.


I live in/create an environment where we each do what we are good at. I "protect" because I am big/strong. That is my role. I am also impatient with nonsense, and my wife isn't. So she does most of our families "political" type stuff. I do accounting, and manage finances in the house. She is a nurse, and treats any illness/wound in the house. Yes, the roles are divided along what are considered traditional, "sexist" roles in many cases. But it is because of aptitude/experience. Because I was also the one getting up in the middle of the night with the kids, taking off work or working the night shift in those formative first 3 years. And she is the more strict disciplinarian, with me preferring to use a more Socratic teaching method of raising my kids.

I suspect it mostly has boiled down to aptitude. It is, as you intimate above, very relative to "why" roles are what they are. Certainly there were some women warriors in the past.

As an aside, feminism is repulsive insomuch as it denies the natural state of animals, all animals across the mammalian world, to have gender assigned roles. No, men should not be given a pass for failing to control their bad behavior. But on the other side, humanity should get a pass for being human. I would guess that as sentient beings we should also be expected to, from time to time, choose gender roles that are contrary to custom. And we should make room for that. But only when it is a choice that is made individually, and not by one group for another. Liberty should be supreme.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I'm on my phone and have trouble using quotes, but I feel inspired by your mention of "manipulative bitches"!

I noticed that even on the extreme male activist board there are token females allowed to participate, but under the restrictions that they be bitches, especially towards other women. It is actually written out as part of their T & C policy, along with NAWALT statements. (Not all women are like that) If you use that phrase you are automatically banned!

Being a bitch is being pressed onto girls from every side- the feminists and the masculinists. The only variation is what direction they should direct it.

It really is not surprising we are turning out a generation of bitchy females.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Men absolutely can learn these skills, just as women can learn to manipulate the world of objects! I think this is what we have to teach each other!

Ultimately though, we have some biological differences that will make us more apt at one or the other, I suspect.

In my marriage too, we chose "traditional" roles for quite a while- he worked outside the home, I worked in the home. I dealt with the kids ethical education, how to empathize, he taught them the more objective skills like how to cut in between things and make choices between opposites (black and white thinking).

I cooked and fed, healed hurts and provided emotional security, he challenged them with obstacles and taught them to overcome resistance. I ironed the clothes and he took out the trash. But we each made sure the other learned to do our jobs, in case we might ever be absent and it needed to be done.

He still thanks me for each meal I cook, and I thank him each time he takes out that heavy trash. Yes, I could take it out, and he could cook, but we've each experienced that and appreciate that the other is willing to do it!

Sometimes I wonder if the swings of culture are not all part of a bigger process- perhaps women need to experience directly the pressures of working outside and gaining exterior recognition, to appreciate that, and maybe men need to experience the difficulties of nurturing a home and children in order to appreciate that.
Perhaps we will come back to some of these traditional roles, but with a new understanding and appreciation of each other?

I sure think that would be nice!



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma

Pitou points out


The image he paints is rather bleak when it comes to their rights and possibilities to self-determination.


My take on this is that the possibilities of rights and self-determination for not only women, but men also was bleak for most of our history. That the individual, as an individual, for the most part did not exist, nor the aspirations to be so. As the world began to open up with more opportunities for individualization, the first to benefit from these opportunities were the men, mostly because in western culture at least, the religions held men to be superior. Then, in light of all these newly "individualized" men, women have had to struggle to attain this individualization and hence so much of what you have described in the OP.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 04:13 PM
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Bluesma, you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for articulating this!

All the women in my family have had very little overt status but underneath most were genius with money/investments and wielded it mightily, while the guys thought it was their creation. A great grandmother ended up developing a small department store chain in Scotland all the while insisting she was just Mrs. Man's First Name Man's Last Name.

In general, relegating women to second class weakens society as whole (besides being morally wrong), but for those with inner fortitude and huge perseverance it can, as you show, be a silver lining to the cloud. Some men may find it manipulative but all prisoners will fantasize about escape, most will sit and stew, a rare few will slowly pick away at bricks and start tunnelling. (this metaphor is not really appropriate in the modern day and age though, but is as I saw the older generation struggling with the limits being feminine put on them)

Best post of the year, in my opinion. Yay!

edit on 14-12-2014 by igloo because: another thought



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: Expat888
Meh .. will take being back in a war zone over dealing with feminists anyday .. far less stress in combat.. had my fill of getting my heart and soul ripped out by women .. by far women are more coldblooded and vindictive than men...
Maybe one day humanity will leave the idiocy behind and learn that men and women are meant to balance each other out rather than tear each other apart ..


Every post of yours relating to women oozes hurt... the solution and cure is within Bluesma's post and worth a lot more than Meh.... Your pain to hold onto though, hug it tight in case it ever leaves



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma


Long ago, when I was younger, I was in an abusive relationship with a narcissist who hated women. When I came to the realization that I was in it because I had a form of « reverse narcissism », and a deep hatred of women too (probably provoked by my attitude towards my mother) I decided I wanted to change that. That didn’t mean « punishing » him or focusing on his problems, but instead, changing my choices.
I wasn’t really a victim of him, I chose him because he acted out the tyrant I had inside me, that was abusing other parts of myself.


You've just described my step mother



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: Expat888
Meh .. will take being back in a war zone over dealing with feminists anyday .. far less stress in combat.. had my fill of getting my heart and soul ripped out by women .. by far women are more coldblooded and vindictive than men...
Maybe one day humanity will leave the idiocy behind and learn that men and women are meant to balance each other out rather than tear each other apart ..


You have to give a person permission to rip out your heart and soul, or perhaps you think you deserve it...maybe you should rethink why you allowed that to happen.
edit on 14-12-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)




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