Bugging out in the UK. I can't see how it's possible.

originally posted by: signalfire
a reply to: nonspecific

Bugging out anywhere is not a possibility. The people who are already 'bugged out' are the only ones in a situation where they may survive something extremely major; that is the people who are already living out in the country, basically off grid, with water and food supplies already in place. Any city or suburban dweller leaving the safety of their homes, however dark they may be, will die in days of exposure, crime and lack of clean water. The highly armed may last a little longer, but you have to sleep sometime, at which point you're a goner. All the people who have a location picked out, maybe with some supplies hidden, are kidding themselves. The likelihood you'll leave the city in time, before the gridlock, and arrive at your location unscathed, is minuscule. How far could you walk, with your supplies, if your car runs out of gas or is stolen or stuck in traffic jams?

You can't bug out an entire population of a city the size of London, or Chicago or whatever. Cities themselves, in many ways, are barely sustainable now, much less if trucking ends, along with all the people working daily to supply them.

There was a book written quite a while ago that's easily available on a search, 'We Almost Lost Detroit' which discusses the early days of the atomic energy business. When asked about 'what if' scenarios', the Atomic Energy Commission assured the public that 'no leaks would ever take place'; that was basically unthinkable because so many fail-safes were designed into the systems... when asked further, well, what if something happens, the answer was 'evacuation, maybe for a few hours or days...' When asked what if something major BIG happens, the answer was the same, 'evacuation'... the thought that you simply cannot evacuate a city the size of Detroit, or Chicago, or London, or Paris, if there's an extreme event of whatever kind, simply didn't compute. They were unable to follow through mentally on the idea that their 'solution' was impossible, and from that, back off from the decisions to go ahead with nuclear power.

Fast forward 50 years, we got Fukushima, and Chernobyl, and Three Mile Island and a lot of other 'mistakes' you've never heard about.

Yes, you can bug out. Plan now. It isn't rocket science.

Well personally... I've already chosen my bug out location and buried\hidden a wide range of essentials in numerous remote places around the area. Certainly enough that I could survive for a month or two at least in winter or 3 - 4 months in summer (alone). It's taken me a few years of prep and I don't have a wife\kids so that makes things a little easier. My plan is to use the knowledge and experience I have to hide and remain hidden! The point of survival is to survive. I intend to avoid conflict whenever possible and only kill other humans as a last resort. If the SHTF and I've lost everything else I don't intend to loose my humanity as well.

A challenge for bug out "experts".

Test your plan. Assume no power, no law enforcement, no hospitals, no government control, no running water, no grocery stores, no heat, no air conditioning, no fuel, no medication. Assume that all your basic supplies that you've hoarded have run out.

See if you can survive a week without getting hurt.

a reply to: Anon77 I challenge you to try your bug out plan right now, while everything is ok. I doubt you could last as long as you think, even if you have special forces training.

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: nonspecific

That was the reason i moved back home 4 years ago . plenty fishing ,shooting ,running water if the brown stuff hits , i have 6 acres just enough to get by and i know everyone in a 50+ mile radius very little happens we do not know about here

6 acres in remote scotland you say.

I've always liked you Douglas, you seem like the kind of person who would help his fellow man in a time of crisis.

On a completley different note, if you were to look out of the window in an easterly direction would you see any interesting landmarks and how far away would you judge them to be?

originally posted by: babybunnies
A challenge for bug out "experts".

Test your plan. Assume no power, no law enforcement, no hospitals, no government control, no running water, no grocery stores, no heat, no air conditioning, no fuel, no medication. Assume that all your basic supplies that you've hoarded have run out.

See if you can survive a week without getting hurt.

I think there are a few people out there that could do it but what about your family and friends.

Add to all of the above that most of your loved ones are dead, dying or oppressed and it adds a whole new angle to it.

I have a friend who lived in a tree in Scotland over the winter and was there on his own for about 7 weeks.

He is one of the toughest sob's you could ever meet and he says it nearly killed him and the solitude was horrific.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: nonspecific

That was the reason i moved back home 4 years ago . plenty fishing ,shooting ,running water if the brown stuff hits , i have 6 acres just enough to get by and i know everyone in a 50+ mile radius very little happens we do not know about here

6 acres in remote scotland you say.

I've always liked you Douglas, you seem like the kind of person who would help his fellow man in a time of crisis.

On a completley different note, if you were to look out of the window in an easterly direction would you see any interesting landmarks and how far away would you judge them to be?

There is a very big landmark about 15 miles as the crow flies which will be covered in snow very very soon

i take it you know the area

a reply to: nonspecific

Just to let you know, that many farms and estates already have plans to defend themselves against squatters.
2nd line

Bugging in or out is never as important as bugging together.

originally posted by: colec156
a reply to: nonspecific

Just to let you know, that many farms and estates already have plans to defend themselves against squatters.
2nd line

Yes i agree but we are talking about bugging out in a major event. I would never take from another in normal circumstances but in those kind of situations I would choose to be near crops and livestock than thinking I could live like a wild man and stalk wild deer with a home made bow and arrow.

Sheep and pheasants are almost domesticated and pretty easy to catch when on the edge of starvation compared to wild rabbits and muntjack deer.

originally posted by: alexball
Bugging in or out is never as important as bugging together.

Agreed but that would mean having a plan and a network of likeminded individuals formulating a plan of action.

The powers that be tend to look down on that kind of thing where I live.

a reply to: nonspecific

Beware the crofters run away from the hills

a reply to: nonspecific

That is mostly because of poor advertising.
You would need to tout it as a camping club or something of the sort.
Something that looks benign and stays under the radar.

originally posted by: alexball
a reply to: nonspecific

That is mostly because of poor advertising.
You would need to tout it as a camping club or something of the sort.
Something that looks benign and stays under the radar.

Yes but any organasition that trys to look benign and stay under the radar will attract more attention than one that does not, unfortunatley they are not as stupid as we would like them to be

a reply to: babybunnies

Have had military survival training and paid for SERE training. I've tried my plan out during summer, I was out for 3 weeks. I've extrapolated survival times based on what I used when I tested the plan plus estimates of what I could potentially scavenge from local population and resources, current fitness level etc. Admittedly the winter was more of a guess, but I have camped during winter in Scotland and Wales. Not a particularly pleasant experience in snow and wind at -10 C but certainly survivable and tolerable for an extended period if I needed too. It did make me improve the clothing I chose and made me not only stock a lot more fire starting gear but also practice starting fires with minimal resources a lot more.

originally posted by: Anon77
a reply to: babybunnies

Have had military survival training and paid for SERE training. I've tried my plan out during summer, I was out for 3 weeks. I've extrapolated survival times based on what I used when I tested the plan plus estimates of what I could potentially scavenge from local population and resources, current fitness level etc. Admittedly the winter was more of a guess, but I have camped during winter in Scotland and Wales. Not a particularly pleasant experience in snow and wind at -10 C but certainly survivable and tolerable for an extended period if I needed too. It did make me improve the clothing I chose and made me not only stock a lot more fire starting gear but also practice starting fires with minimal resources a lot more.

Would that be you on your own or with others and do you have others that you would wish to be with you if I may ask?

I'm pretty sure I could survive with my gear for a fair time but with the unprepared and especially children things would be a lot different.

I appriciate your input.

IF! you do survive you then will have to hide very well
or be able to fight a group of moder day vikings.

yes viking rading partys.
you will get groups of evil people who will kill you just for the fun of it.
and steal every thing.

why you think you can just stock up and live for ever on it?
or start a small farm. I can not belive it.

others will take all you have.
why do non of you talk about this?
Remember the past!!!
it will hapen agine. and agine.

a reply to: nonspecific

Likely on my own, I currently don't have a wife\girlfriend or kids or much close family, a few close friends but they mostly have families and their own survival plans. With more people things get much tougher. Children need extra care to ensure their health and well-being. Resources would need to be carefully rationed. Hiding becomes harder. Defence becomes harder. Medical care becomes harder. Movement becomes harder. And the vast majority of society are just completely incapable of managing in a survival situation, that poor adaptation may eventually kill them. I'd stick with outdoor survival until I can find a easily defensible building\cave for more permanent living.

a reply to: buddha

Stealing or rading to survive is hardly considered to be evil. Simply survival of the fittest would ensure. Plus like another poster pointed out its better to be mobile, staying or attempting to defend a home or estate would mostlighly end in defeat, maybe
not the first time, but at some point I imagine your defences would fail or armunition would run out.

a reply to: nonspecific

It all depends upon the reason for 'bugging out' (a terrible phrase to use)? It would all depend upon the crisis, what kind it is, and how it would affect the environment? For the UK, heading North into the wilds of either the Yorkshire Moors, the Lake District, or Scotland, skirting the big cities and towns, would probably be best

I would think that the best locations to head for would be the small islands off the mainland coasts. Skye, and the Shetland Isles, the Hebrides and the Orkney's. Even the Isle of Man. However, you would need to pick an island that would provide suitable sustenance for a fair length of time. The weather up North, especially around Scotland can be quite severe and very wild.

You would want to avoid people, but at the same time, you would also need to be able to raid houses and farms on the way to your chosen location. Good luck to whatever you choose.