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No the problem was that the YES voters thought they were going to win in the days before because of polls done, now I know MANY no voters when asked on the street said they would vote yes because they felt intimidated and looking at the aftermath it's easy to see why!
originally posted by: midicon
originally posted by: KingIcarus
a reply to: midicon
Change isn't always for the better.
For good or bad it was our call to make. We deserved an open and honest referendum.
No they don't - the majority of them are inbred half wits who couldn't rig a fishing rod let alone something as public and important as the recent referendum.
Unproven. Proof of rigging?
The vast majority of the rules surrounding the referendum were put in place by Holyrood and the SNP and by extension Salmond, Sturgeon et al.
If, and its a massive IF, there has been any vote rigging I suggest you point your finger in that direction - Devo Max was always Salmond's preferred option.
The debate, referendum and subsequent discussions and statements have raised many questions about the UK's electoral and parliamentary procedures, the conduct and integrity of our politicians - of ALL parties - and even the very nature of our society.
There has been a multitude of empty promises and political double talk.
I personally think that the politicians have come out of the referendum viewed with even more contempt than they were previously perceived.
But has there been any vote rigging?
To be honest I've got to say that given all the evidence available the answer is a most definite NO.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: wmd_2008
From memory the actual violence associated with yes campaign came down to one thrown egg and a few defaced posters. ( which happens in every campaign) does that really equate to George square?
On the whole the campaign was incredibly peaceful from both sides. Despite media attempts to portray it otherwise.
What do you mean by my background? If it means what I think, you are both wrong and also revealing more about yourself than anything else?
originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Tedgoat
Apologies you are correct a unique reference should appear on back of paper. From memory I thought it only appeared on postal votes ( for obvious reasons these do need verified) but is there any evidence that there was fraudulent papers, even wings says the vote was valid!
A very interesting account from inside the Renfrewshire counting venue was provided by enumerator Jim Daly:
"I would like to offer the following observation.
I was an enumerator at the referendum vote count on behalf of Renfrewshire Council. The Returning Officer was David Martin, Chief Executive of Renfrewshire Council.
The vote counting was finished at 2.30am. What then happened appeared to be a mystery to me.
Mr. Martin and his assistants in suits seemed to be in a flap. This consisted of staring at laptops in front of those who were responsible for collating results and strong words were obviously exchanged.
As time marched on Mr. Martin paced around the hall rather nervously.
Then there were more meetings, up a corridor, out of view.
There was one lady with a laptop who, it appeared, was responsible for collating all the votes, but something wasn't going well.
She was taken away by one of Mr. Martin's assistants, out of view of the public, only to return and disconnect her laptop and leave the hall with it under her arm.
Mr. Martin still paced the floor looking uneasy, talking to what looked like aides.
As time passed from 2.30am until declaration time (4.52am), there were visible signs that those in charge weren't happy with something.
During this process there were observers watching everything that the enumerators were doing but not what was being carried out by those recording [numbers] on the laptops.
From 2.30am until 4.52am the reason we were given for non-declaration was [that we were] wait[ing] for a TV slot....
Transportation of Ballot Boxes to Counting Venues
Within hours Glasgow police received ten reports from people being told at polling stations across the city that they could not vote because "someone of the same name had already voted." It also emerged that polling cards were issued to minors below the statutory limit of 16, ballot papers were being sold on e-Bay, and ballot boxes were not picked up under secure conditions. Eyewitnesses at counting venues reported individuals arriving, unaccompanied, with boxes of ballot papers in the trunks of their cars.
"Last night we challenged the presiding officer regarding the transportation of ballot boxes in single-manned cars. Our ballot box was not an issue as it went straight from the hall into the van with the guys to take it to be counted. They had to wait until three personal cars arrived with boxes from other areas. These boxes were driven in cars by people on their own. These people were those who also had access to spare zip-ties and tags. We are not insinuating that anyone of these three people would have tampered with the boxes but if this is the system country-wide, we have a major problem. When asked what the rules were, the presiding officer replied:
'I do not have that level of information. You will need to wait until tomorrow. It doesn't matter now anyway. It is too late.'
Naturally we were shocked at her attitude and also her lack of understanding of the legal process. We wrote out a statement. Apologies, it was dark. She also made some corrections. I witnessed all three vehicles but the group of us only witnessed two. Hence we only refer to two. The process was the same for the third. I heard her ask the female in one vehicle,
'Are you alone?'
To which the person replied,
'No, someone followed me but they've gone now.'
We saw her arrive without escort. The second driver was not asked the question, despite also being alone. Why ask unless it is not protocol? Someone here is lying or not doing things correctly. Not happy at all. Not sour grapes. Just facts. Made us all feel sick last night."
Paul Birrell from Uphall, West Lothian gave this report from his local polling station:
"I was officially asked to attend one of my local stations as a Yes representative. I was there for the whole day and night. The things I saw were criminal.
[...] at the end of the night I witnessed the boxes being sealed (bit of tape with a serial number over the posting slot). A West Lothian Council van driver had arrived before this on his OWN.
When I asked him where the guardians are, he looked at me like he didn't have a clue what I was on about. I explained what they were, only to have him and a few of the polling officers pissing themselves and making absurd jokes along the lines of... 'what do you think is going to happen' [...] basically trying to humiliate me, so I backed off.
It is my understanding that the driver was alone and no one checked his van, nor was there any form of safeguards in place to ensure he couldn't take a detour or meet with someone else to change the ballot boxes!!! Pippa Plevin and one other Yes representative witnessed this too."
Countless evidences of fraud during the recent Scottish Referendum have come to light. We demand a revote be taken of said referendum, where each vote shall be counted by two individuals, one of whom should be an international impartial party without a stake in the vote.
Our #1 concern right now is the number of ballots which were blank on the reverse - this renders them completely void. The staggering numbers of people who are coming forward on our facebook group to tell us about their blank ballots is seriously concerning - what happened to these votes? Are they part of the 660,000 votes which were missing or incomplete, or were they switched out for pre-filled no votes? The turnout was still high - too high for those ballots to have been voided, but if they had been seen and dealt with in a legal manner, blank ballots would not have been counted. Where is the explanation for this? Is the answer in the recently leaked Dundee video where two members - during the fire alarm - were inside, taking papers from their bags and putting them on the table?
Why were Joyce Armour and many others told "not to bother recording ballot box seals when they left our poll stations"? - This is illegal!
Scotland has its eyes wide open, Westminster, and we are not going ANYWHERE!