NBC’s 3 Steps for Home Invasion Defense: Use Wasp Spray Illegally, Treat Invader ‘Like Royalty'

a reply to: butcherguy
Oh don't even get me started. They dragged that crap out for 2 YEARS. I called the detective, his Sergeant, a completely other detective to try to press charges on the man. They not only refused to press charges on my behalf, but ended up making a warrant for my arrest 5 MONTHS after the incident. I had a witness in the room, they all refused to speak to him because he was my 'friend'. The Sergeant yelled at me for crying on the phone.
Me and my witness filled out affidavits for Class C assaults. (the guy shoved my friend too) The charge (the equivalent of a ticket) was denied by the prosecutor due 'lack of evidence'.
The hospital in which this happened told me they gave security footage to the police. But the police claimed to have no such thing.
After they issued the warrant I had to pay $300 to a bond place, turn myself in, sit in jail for 4 hours, have my mugshot posted online, and report to the bond place every Thursday for the 2 years that this drug on.
I filed a complaint with the Department of Health, who investigated and SUBSTANTIATED my complaints. I gave that to the prosecutors and they finally called the poor 'victim' in. I'm sure he made an ass of himself and they finally realized they were wrong. Charges dropped. No apology, no charges on him, no refund of my time & money.

Sorry to jack your thread. I'm going to go cut some firewood now. F*CK da police.

Those are very good points, but every situation is different. A burglar is relying on stealth. An angry drunk will make a lot of noise. Home invasion with a bunch of guys? Yeah, what you said. And the best way to avoid a home invasion with a bunch of guys is to stay out of the illegal drug business, since, according to media reports, that's usually what's behind such an attack. a reply to: Bone75

The only Bug Spray they are gonna get is a bunch of Hornet .223's.

originally posted by: Parthin
Those are very good points, but every situation is different. A burglar is relying on stealth. An angry drunk will make a lot of noise. Home invasion with a bunch of guys? Yeah, what you said. And the best way to avoid a home invasion with a bunch of guys is to stay out of the illegal drug business, since, according to media reports, that's usually what's behind such an attack. a reply to: Bone75

I knew the Pennsylvania man that was killed by this group of four men... Does four count as a 'bunch'?
Read the story: Carl Junior Isaacs

In May of 1973, Carl Isaacs escaped from a Maryland penal institution and, accompanied by his younger brother Billy Isaacs, his half-brother Wayne Coleman and a friend, George Dungee, drove to Florida. On the afternoon of May 14, 1973, they were in Seminole County, Georgia, and their car was almost out of gas. They thought they saw a gas pump behind the rural mobile home belonging to Jerry Alday and Mary Alday and stopped to investigate it. They discovered there was no pump; however, the trailer was empty, and they decided to burglarize it. Dungee remained in the car while Carl Isaacs and Wayne Coleman entered the trailer. While they were inside, Billy Isaacs warned them two men were approaching in a jeep. Jerry Alday and his father Ned Alday pulled in behind the trailer, unaware that it was being burglarized. Carl Isaacs met them and ordered them inside at gunpoint. After their pockets were emptied, Jerry Alday was taken into the south bedroom of the trailer while Ned was taken to the north bedroom. Carl Isaacs shot and killed Jerry Alday, and then both he and Coleman shot and killed Ned Alday. Soon afterward, Jerry's brother Jimmy Alday drove up on a tractor, walked to the back door, and knocked on the door. Coleman answered the door, “stuck a pistol up in the guy’s face,” and ordered him inside. He was taken into the living room and forced to lie on the sofa. Carl Isaacs shot and killed him. After Carl Isaacs went outside to move the tractor, which was parked in front of their car, Jerry's wife Mary Alday drove up. Carl Isaacs entered the trailer behind her and accosted her. Meanwhile, Chester and Aubrey Alday (Jerry’s brother and uncle) drove up in a pickup truck. Leaving Coleman and Dungee to watch Mary Alday, Carl and Billy Isaacs went outside to confront the two men, and forced them at gunpoint into the trailer. Once inside, Aubrey was taken to the south bedroom where Carl Isaacs shot and killed him, while Chester Alday was taken to the north bedroom and killed by Coleman. Coleman and Carl Isaacs raped Mary Alday on her kitchen table. Afterward, they drove to a heavily wooded area several miles away where Mary Alday was raped again. Dungee killed her. They abandoned their car in the woods and took Mary Alday’s car, which they later abandoned in Alabama. They stole another car there, and were arrested a few days later in West Virginia, in possession of guns later identified as the murder weapons, and property belonging to the victims. After his original trial, Carl Isaacs was interviewed by a film maker who was producing a documentary about the case. The defendant admitted shooting Jerry, Ned, Aubrey and Jimmy Alday, raping Mary Alday, and burglarizing the trailer. These admissions were introduced in evidence at the retrial.

Find a case

The record reveals that appellant, in the company of his brother, Carl Isaacs, his half-brother, Wayne Coleman, and another person named George Dungee, decided to go to Mexico. At that time, Coleman and Dungee were escapees from the Maryland correctional system. Prior to their supposed departure, they burglarized the home of a relative and other dwellings in Maryland and Pennsylvania. In addition to the burglaries, they engaged in stealing automobiles for their personal use. Two young girls, juveniles, accompanied the males on the crime spree although it does not appear that they were active participants in the commission of the criminal deeds. The two girls were abandoned by the four men in Pennsylvania. In McConnellsburg, Pennsylvania, on May 9 or 10, 1973, the men stole a white pick-up truck because the car they were using had motor trouble. The quartet had difficulty with the truck, and while they were endeavoring to fix it, Richard Wayne Miller, a McConnellsburg high school student, drove into view. Mr. Miller recognized the truck as belonging to someone he knew. Miller stopped his automobile and told the men to return the truck to the place from which it had been taken. The response was that Miller was held, at gun point, and forced into his own car, which the four culprits commandeered. They took an unspecified sum of money from Miller's wallet. The vehicle containing the five persons, including Miller, was driven into Maryland. Miller was led from the vehicle and taken into a wooded area where he was slain.

That's some sucky advice, NBC. No gun: do what they tell you and pray. You DO realize that not everyone is prepared to shoot people, don't you? A home invasion typically involves more than one person, but the invaders could be anything- an armed man and an unarmed man, a man and a woman, several armed men. I've done what I can do to prepare: one of those high-capacity magazines that the libtards want to ban, and a laser sight. I guessed that in a crisis, I'm likely to spray and pray, so the laser would keep me on target. People get so pumped up in these situations (including police) that beyond the 6 foot range, most shots will be a miss. Another poster experienced a surprise kick the door in with several armed men, but that's typical only in drug-related invasions. Your situation could be anything. a reply to: Metallicus

a reply to: butcherguy

Jesus H. Christ. The entire family wiped out.

That is NOT going to be me.

I just can't believe how many people are ok with being a victim to people who are more prone to escalating their crimes once they have full control of you and your family than they are with the individual protecting themselves, with deadly force, against these people.

It's a product of lack of experience. Being too young and idealizing the nature of criminals. The notion that since they are human beings they must think like normal people, even as they engage in behaviors normal people would never engage in. No examples of the horrible outcomes of relying on the mercy of criminals will convince them that these types are not to be trusted.

Rejection of reality is not recommended to preserve your idealism.

I am not a violent man. I spend most days at peace with those around me. I am polite, charitable, and kind.

But I live in reality. While I am not violent, I am very good at violence.

a reply to: Parthin

People get so pumped up in these situations (including police) that beyond the 6 foot range, most shots will be a miss.

Some of my best shots that I have ever made were adrenaline fueled.

I have shot on ranges and courses with cops and agents, from local yokel level to Federal agents. On the whole, they generally failed to impress me with their shooting abilities, especially considering the fact they have ranges provided to them for practice and qualifying.

a reply to: butcherguy

Likewise.

It is amazing to me how terrible their marksmanship is when they are at the range.
It makes you wonder what its like under stress.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

You've obviously never been in a physical confrontation...

If you think you can deal with armed home invaders with pepper spray or bug spray, then you are a fool...

It ain't gonna happen.

Jaden

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

You should get a gun, pepperspray won't stop someone in your home.

Even if it's just a little 2 shot .22 that you could hid almost anywhere (i mean a glasses case), you should protect yourself.

I myself prefer a ksg with 20+ aguila 1 inch shot shells.

I have been jumped by three guys. What is pepper spray going to do for your when it's more than one person? Also in a closed room you will end up blinding yourself as well. The guys that jumped me were pepper sprayed by bar security and still stood around fighting and talking trash. It's not enough. You want some convincing for why to own and carry a fire arm at all times? Go read the transcript of the toy box killer's introduction tape. It will horrify you and it happened to 50 to maybe 100 woman.

I live in rural area and while there is some crime here its mostly because of drug issues. I wont say we are a gun happy family but I have made sure my wife and son can handle their self in a break in situation with confidence. My wife was a victim many years ago before we got married so she has been in those shoes and I can assure anyone she wont be again. I don't go looking for a fight but if some scumbag is dumb enough to break into my house they better be prepared to leave in a body bag.

a reply to: rogue7573

My area is about the same.. but we have the occasionally BIZARRE murder and the are rarely solved. I can actually name victims names for two very strange murders that were never solved and never got any attention.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

There are so few law enforcement folks in this county that it can take them 30 min or longer to respond to a car wreck or any other type of incident. We don't see a lot of murder issues, its usually drug related crimes or crack heads out to steal anything they can get their hands on and I hate to say this but the only reason I think we don't have more home break in's is because everyone is so armed. Im sure that sounds terrible to a lot of people but its a way of life here.

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't think you get it.

it's not like most rapes are the violent (dark alley in shady neighborhood at night)-kind anyway, usually they're someone the victim knows, either a boyfriend or acquaintance, or classmate.

I think the "not carrying a gun" part is more about not having it used against you or ripped out of your hands in close quarters. or misfiring, or whatever.

furthermore while the producers are celebs, the actual advice-giving source appears to be a hostage-negotiator/police officer with several years experience, and who's probably more qualified than you to talk about this sort of thing.

After this post, I'm questioning if you get it.

I don't know a single person who advocates people own guns who don't say that with an implied understanding that they learn how to properly use it--and I don't mean keep the muzzle downrange, slide locked back, only load at the table sort of use, I'm talking about learning to handle a gun in a self-defense situation. If anyone owns a gun for self defense and has not taken at least some classes with real-world scenarios being taught, they don't know how to properly use the weapon.

When you berate NavyDoc, you need to do so with a little more respect and less assumption. I know a few officers who are qualified "hostage negotiators," and they're no better equiped to deal with a home invasion than any other officer on the force, or a military member with close-quarters training, or a civilian with the same. Hostage negotiation has ZERO to do with defending one's self against an attacker, so that qualification is a moot point that you raise trying to discredit NavyDoc's comments and a moot point the celebs use to try and lend veracity to their "tips" that will generally get the victim killed or injured by pissing off the intruder.

But, you know, maybe you're more qualified to talk about this sort of thing than I am...

a reply to: rogue7573

I'm in Kentucky.. anyone breaking in a house is risking their lives. I personally know 3 or so people who have killed intruders or attackers. All were cleared of wrong doing.

I like steps one and two but as for #3, I would not call police as it might just backfire and the one defending themselves may have some kind of charge brought against them. Though, I must admit that it is less likely down South here than it would be in Phillie, where I moved from...and NY has that Sullivan Law.

However, better to blast the perp and then bury him in the back yard as I can always use good fertilizer for my plants and flowers. I'm serious too.

My weapon of choice is my trusty ole shotgun...if you "miss" with one of those, then you shouldn't own any kind of fire arm at all. However, revolver is great for indoors too depending on range which is usually good...perp usually in fairly close proximity. Either way, If ones home is invaded, all bets are off as to how well the invader survives...in my house, he would not fare well. If one lives out in the country, the entire scenario could go down and no one would even know...hunting and target practice go on all the time down here so gun sounds don't make a big impression for the most part. You have to fend for yourself.

A can of hair spray and a lighter makes a good blow torch too but I'd still rather rely on good ole "Nellie bell", (shotgun) or one of my pistols instead...especially since I do well at hitting targets always. Daily target practice helps. Hunting for food as I had to do while hubby was laid up and no disability money yet, was a help too...besides never "missing" the duck/deer/rabbit/squirrel, it makes one more prepared and to know how it feels to unfortunately have to end the life of a creature. I have no desire to end someone and realize there is a big difference from hunting game and having to "stop" an invader but when ya gotta do what ya gotta do, it is not desirable but necessary.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Parthin

People get so pumped up in these situations (including police) that beyond the 6 foot range, most shots will be a miss.

Some of my best shots that I have ever made were adrenaline fueled.

I have shot on ranges and courses with cops and agents, from local yokel level to Federal agents. On the whole, they generally failed to impress me with their shooting abilities, especially considering the fact they have ranges provided to them for practice and qualifying.

I like my pistols and other hand guns but I really love my shot gun. If one misses the target with one of those, they should not even own a fire arm. I could care less about the "mess" in my house afterwards...as long as it gets the job done...and it is true, adrenaline helps. I had an incident where I had to save my own life from a serial killer and that adrenaline rush that kicked in saved my life. I got so darn strong and brave and it worked and I survived after I got medieval on his arse and even had time to escape...I didn't have a gun then, I used my own hands/arms/legs as defense. Adrenaline REALLY did work as the perp WAS armed and I managed to survive and was told by Staties later that 6 other women victims had not been so lucky...so yeah, the adrenaline factor helps, plus now, being a good shot and very experienced from hunting and such.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: butcherguy

Jesus H. Christ. The entire family wiped out.

That is NOT going to be me.

Indeed. I wouldn't go without a fight either.
The residents of Fulton County, PA spent a long time looking for Richard Miller's body. It was never found. One of the killers later told investigators that they made him get on his hands and knees and beg for his life before they shot him in the head.

a reply to: Metallicus

I am late to the thread sorry... I am not in agreement with any of these suggestions about dealing with would be thieves, rapists, murderers or worse that chose to INVADE someone's home. If you come to my door and ask me for food in a non-threatening way - I will share my food. If you ask for shelter, I will find a way for you to have some. If you ask for money and your reason is good - I just might give you some of the meager funds I have. BUT. If you break into my home, my safe place in all of the wide world I will NOT give you mercy. I am pretty liberal in most ways but I am not for gun control. Unless you're willing to swarm like ants and take control by sheer force when things get out of balance - taking many losses as collateral damage, long range weapons are your last defense against absolute tyranny.

If you break into my home uninvited and threaten me I will do my best to take you out - you are now my enemy - you crossed that line. I am a peaceful, loving and kind person and I really don't understand why people behave the way they do but I am not going to make excuses for someone else's bad behavior. You grew up poor, you were abused, any number of excuses I am not buying - you know better and if you attack me - call it death by misadventure if I get you first. I am poor and I take great offense when someone else tries to steal what I've spent years in hell trying to just keep my head above water to get. Stealing is horrible but if you want to steal - don't steal from your own, that's even worse

As far as celebrities giving the commoners advice - we live in two very different worlds - and we should stop taking their word as truth. Tired of all of the commercials with celebs telling me what to eat, drive, wear - I'd rather watch common people trying to sell me something. Celebrities can afford security systems, bodyguards, and most importantly they can afford to replace what they've lost.