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Ukraine and Russian forces engage

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posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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Please stop with the Merica vs world nonsense take it to another thread.




posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: HardCorps

I doubt Putin cares about the ruble, the BRICS are working on their own financial system with their rules. He couldn't care less. They are working towards the end of the Petrodollar ( which I 100% agree with )

Debt means nothing when you change the rules.


Lol you can't be serious...

Exports from emerging markets showed a notable slump. The value of Southeast Asian contracts tumbled 18.3%, while contracts with the other BRICS countries -- Brazil, Russia, India, and South Africa -- slid 13%.

Investment in Brazilian industry contract 9.5 percent

Hell I could go on and on

But I'm not going to bother actually... but in short, BRICS control a rapidly shrinking 11% of GDP and are dependant on western investments and consumer demand

And guess what?

ITS BEEN CUT



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: TritonTaranis

Really keep telling that to yourself. They are preparing, and once their system is in place you'l be surprised to see how many nations will be in line to get themselves removed from the central banking cartel.

These numbers mean nothing, its virtual, it doesn't exist and never did.
Reminds me of the prince who wore no clothes.

Now they are following rules, soon they'l be making them. I don't support these nations, but I welcome any system that undermines the petrodollar and the financial advantage( read tyranny ) of the US.
edit on thAmerica/Chicago815uk2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: TritonTaranis

Really keep telling that to yourself. They are preparing, and once their system is in place you'l be surprised to see how many nations will be in line to get themselves removed from the central banking cartel.

These numbers mean nothing, its virtual, it doesn't exist and never did.
Reminds me of the prince who wore no clothes.

Now they are following rules, soon they'l be making them. I don't support these nations, but I welcome any system that undermines the petrodollar and the financial advantage( read tyranny ) of the US.


Ok I get it you hate the US, I'm not a big fan either

But as you said they are preparing.. And so is the western world, Of course this is no secret and the western world is clearly united in pulling out investment in BRIC nations who seek to rival western dominance, to crash the USD means to crash the entire western worlds economies and the global financial system..

I think that game was lost years ago and was immediately obvious since it's creation which is why the BRICS are contracting and slumping, year after year

It might have been a better move for the BRICS to have concealed this master plan until they at least controlled over 50% of world GDP and not 11%

Now all BRICS are slumping and Russia is falling into recession under sanctions, I don't see how they will recover or grow being isolated or do very well obeying to Russian plans to destroy the US

If either BRIC nation wants to grow they need to drop the R (Russia) from BRICS and do business directly with the west with no agenda... unless they feel they can grow together?, which I very much doubt but do what do you think?



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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A well thought post, star for you and some valid points! I think we will find out soon enough. Now about the Brics, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The brics share a common goal and that is to get rid of the US.

Russia is the frontman of the BRIC, and Putin has been the first to openly declare the war on the petrodollar. And Russia is in fact showing his partners the day of American supremacy is over.

Crimea had a bigger impact on our world then most people realize, Russia said **** you to the US and went in. America stood by and did nothing, if Russia would have done this 10 years ago it wouldn't have ended like this.

One of the first following events after Crimea was China putting their oil drill in those disputed seawaters. Because Russia showed them not to be afraid anymore. And they did, again with no retaliation from the US.


But for the record, I don't hate Americans, I just hate their government and their foreign policy. That and their monopoly because of the Petrodollar.
edit on thAmerica/Chicago815uk2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: MessageforAll

yea ive always noticed sitting from the south side staring up at those pristine sky scrappers some of them almost look like there flipping you the bird
edit on 15-8-2014 by TechniXcality because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2014 by TechniXcality because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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Here is the info regarding the convoy arriving at the border and Russian forces continuing in to Ukraine without the convoy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll

The brics share a common goal and that is to get rid of the US.


No, really they don't -

What is Brics?

Since people ignored my thread here is the info again.

I keep seeing people invoke BRICS yet apparently they have no clue as to what it is, its goals and its issues.

It is not a military alliance.
It is not a combined foreign policy.
It is not economically stable.
Being optimistic and assuming no wars were to occur, BRICS wont be influential until 2018 at the earliest and 2050 at the latest - again assuming nothing, like war, trade issues, disasters, etc, occur.




To those who are constantly invoking BRICS and for those who are not familiar with it. Here is a brief overview of what it is, what the potential is and what the difficulties will be in making it successful.

NATIONS THAT MAKE UP "BRICS"
BRICS Homepage

* - Russia - Vladimir Putin, President
* - China - Xi Jinping, President
* - Brazil - Dilma Rousseff, President
* - India - Narendra Modi, Prime Minister
* - South Africa - Jacob Zuma, President (joined in 2010)

BRICS NATIONS ACCOUNT FOR - AS OF 2014 -
* - almost 3 billion people which is 40% of the world population,
* - a combined nominal GDP of US$16.039 trillion (20% world GDP) and an estimated US$4 trillion in combined foreign reserves.
* - As of 2014, the BRICS nations represented 18 percent of the world economy.


BRICS CURRENT GOALS
* - The concept of BRIC started in 2006 when the 4 nations got together (S. Africa joined in 2010). Their first official meeting was in 2008.
* - Their specified goal was to push for reform in the IMF (Which all BRICS members are a part of).
* - The time to reform the IMF created a situation with BRICS where they decided to form a separate counter to the IMF system for developing nations and monetary loans.

* - The creation of a "bank" to counter the IMF - Member nations pledged a total of $100 Billion to the "bank" in 2013, with a goal of opening the bank in 2014. Due to disagreements between member nations on burden sharing, fund management, differing economic systems, the bank is, optimistically, looking to be in operation by 2015.

THE USE OF BRICS IN THE UKRAINE CRISIS AND DIFFERING FREEDOMS OF MEDIA REPRESENTING A SHIFT IN BRICS GOALS - 2014
* - MARCH 2014 - BRICS foreign ministers (Russia's actually) raised the issue at a nuclear summit that the response of nations to the Ukraine issue, the language those nations used coupled with it being directed at Russia, and the apparent disregard for the UN charter, the use of sanctions / counter-sanctions and Australia's discussion about prohibiting Putin from attending the G-20 meeting in Australia.

* - APRIL 2014 - Russian Ambassador(at large) Vadim Lukov questioned the control of the IMF, "In the hands of western powers" and accused it of not being available in emergencies. The Ambassador then announced a push for a new reserve currency.

* - JULY 2014 - The Russian central bank specifically targets the US, specifically announcing plans to undermine the US dollar and to force it out of the global financial system.
* - BRICS organizes a BRICS "IMF" and "Development Bank" - The BIMF = $100 billion / The BDB = $50 billion
* - This BRICS meeting included military items, namely air defense.

In my opinion, Australia and Russia are both right and both wrong in their actions. It created an interesting development in both entities - The IMF / G-20 and BRICS and the path it created.


BRICS NATIONS AT A GLANCE


POTENTIAL MEMBERS
* - Indonesia
* - Turkey
* - Argentina
* - Egypt
* - Iran
* - Nigeria
* - Syria

WHAT BRICS IS NOT
* - A military entity
* - A military alliance
* - Economically stable
* - A unified foreign policy entity

PROBLEMS WITHIN BRICS
* - India-China disagreement over Tibet / Borders

* - BRICS discussed global monetary reform, not yuan -China exchange rates cause problems in Brazil

* - A problem with thinking in acronyms

No idea has done more to muddle thinking about the global economy than that of the BRICs. Other than being the largest economies in their respective regions, the big four emerging markets never had much in common. They generate growth in different and often competing ways-Brazil and Russia, for example, are major energy producers that benefit from high energy prices, whereas India, as a major energy consumer, suffers from them. Except in highly unusual circumstances, such as those of the last decade, they are unlikely to grow in unison. China apart, they have limited trade ties with one another, and they have few political or foreign policy interests in common.

A problem with thinking in acronyms is that once one catches on, it tends to lock analysts into a worldview that may soon be outdated. In recent years, Russia's economy and stock market have been among the weakest of the emerging markets, dominated by an oil-rich class of billionaires whose assets equal 20 percent of GDP, by far the largest share held by the superrich in any major economy.





* - China Loses Control of Its Frankenstein Economy

Mystery Data

How can anyone trust that China is growing at a rate of 7.7 percent, as the government claims, when crucial variables in its data tabulation are a mystery? Bank of America Corp. economist Lu Ting in Hong Kong risked China’s ire by alleging its trade surplus was 1/10 the $61 billion it reported as of mid-May. The nobody-knows character of China’s credit system -- quantity, quality or excesses -- is even more worrisome.



* - The problem with BRICS - CHINA

The economic profile of the BRICS, especially that of China, has continued to grow with suggestions that BRICS collectively could become bigger than the US by 2018 and by 2050 could even surpass the combined economies of G7 States.


* - A major challenge for ongoing influence from the BRICS is China’s dominance over the other four members.
* - The Chinese economy is now not only the second largest in the world but also larger than the economies of all the BRICS together.
* - The overweening presence of China makes the other members nervous, leading them to hedge their bets by investing in alternative alliances and partnerships .






edit on 15-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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* - China’s manipulation of its currency has resulted in significant problems for the manufacturing sectors of India, Brazil and South Africa.
* - Chinese exports have decimated a number of industries in Brazil, South Africa and India.
* - China’s dominance of the intra-South trade remains overwhelming with other emerging powers struggling to get a share of the pie.
* - Beijing's refusal to let the yuan appreciate has resulted in significant problems for the manufacturing industries of India, Brazil and South Africa.
* - China continues to keep the Yuan undervalued.

BRICS ISSUES - GLOBAL TERRITORIAL DISPUTES - BRICS NATIONS

* - China - Territorial disputes in the S. China Sea
* - China/India -Kashmir and Jammu.
* - China/India -Aksai Chin
* - China/India -Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal
* - China/India -Shaksgam Valley
* - China/India -South Tibet
* - Russia/ROC/PRC -Heixiazi / Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island - Eastern / Western half 2004.
* - Russia/ROC/PRC -Kutuzov Island
* - Russia/ROC/PRC -Tuva

Too many differences remain among BRICS nations - Transparency, foreign policy, economies, government type, civil liberties, etc.

While, in my opinion, India, Brazil and S. Africa view BRICS from an economic standpoint, Russia and China have the added view of something to eventually counter the UN.

It is not difficult to see Russia or China trying to dictate terms to Brazil, India or S. Africa in areas not covered by BRICS. The goals of BRICS nations are not unified and often times conflict with other BRICS nations.

The use of BRICS by Russia recently supports that theory in that Russia see's BRICS as more than just economics. To be honest, and again in my opinion, I think Russia see's BRICS as a new Warsaw Pact. Russia and China are looking at BRICS and are seeing a way to control large segments of the global economy by drawing in India, Brazil and S. Africa (giving Russia and China possible economic domination on all continents except for Australia and Antarctica).

The question is how will Brazil, S. Africa and India react if Russian or Chinese actions create a military response (Ukraine or Chinas territorial claims in the Pacific).

Can Russia and China "share" leadership of BRICS to the extent of sacrificing their national interests some to help the other BRICS members? Can Russia and China overcome the major differences the 2 countries have in global affairs?

Russia and China constantly demonstrate that they will not be dictated to by other countries - fair enough.
Can the 2 find common ground so they don't dictate to each other? - Nope.

This is a basic overview using sources cited above and from the BRICS Wikipedia page at the bottom. The reader can decide for themselves if BRICS is a significant player on the current international scene.




edit on 15-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes I read your thread. Didn't feel like posting, don't take this wrong way, but your threads are to biased for my taste.
You really think that they would put on their manifest " to abolish the US supremacy"

Your thread had a lot of info I hadn't seen before, for which I starred and flagged you. But Putin is doing just that, going after the Petrodollar, and the BIC's will follow him.

What happens after? Beats me.


EDIT: Aww man did you have to post that in this thread? The link to yours was enough, lets try to keep this on-topic, Like I said before, I really don't want to migrate to a new thread for updates lol.
edit on thAmerica/Chicago815uk2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)

edit on thAmerica/Chicago815uk2014 by MessageforAll because: Hadn't not haven't



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes I read your thread. Didn't feel like posting, don't take this wrong way, but your threads are to biased for my taste.
You really think that they would put on their manifest " to abolish the US supremacy"

Your thread had a lot of info I haven't seen before, for which I starred and flagged you. But Putin is doing just that, going after the Petrodollar, and the BIC's will follow him.

What happens after? Beats me.


Biased? The bulk of the info comes directly from BRICS own webpage.

The info is not biased and using that excuse to ignore the info does not make it so either.


To your last comment -
Yes I added it to this thread. Here is a novel concept to think about.

Don't lecture me on adding info to the thread when you yourself invoked BRICS. You don't get to invoke BRICS and make claims then bitch because you get called out. You opened the door, not me.

If the info is not relevant then why did you invoke it in the thread?


ETA - China removed those oil drills from disputed waters with Vietnam. All Russia showed China is how to act like a highway robber in the middle of the night.
edit on 15-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Wrong choice of words, call it your threads are very agenda driven? Better? Anywho thanks for the info again I meant it when I said they had a lot of info I didn't see before.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: Xcathdra

Wrong choice of words, call it your threads are very agenda driven? Better? Anywho thanks for the info again I meant it when I said they had a lot of info I didn't see before.


No problem.. I am more than happy to provide the facts and information other intentionally ignore because it does not support their agenda - Like invoking BRICS in this thread then not wanting to talk about it because the info does not support your agenda.

better?
edit on 15-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Like invoking BRICS in this thread then not wanting to talk about it because the info does not support your agenda.
better?


Now your just being rude, I replied to another member in this thread after he asked me something. You copied your entire thread here, which has nothing to do with OP.

If it didn't support my agenda I wouldn't have thanked you for posting the info. My agenda lol, read my comments I'l be the first to admit my mistakes or look at both sides. Unlike you who are hellbent on spreading one version of the conflict and never ever suggesting your truth might be flawed.

And now this thread is getting way off-topic, great.
edit on thAmerica/Chicago815uk2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: TritonTaranis

Really keep telling that to yourself. They are preparing, and once their system is in place you'l be surprised to see how many nations will be in line to get themselves removed from the central banking cartel.

These numbers mean nothing, its virtual, it doesn't exist and never did.
Reminds me of the prince who wore no clothes.

Now they are following rules, soon they'l be making them. I don't support these nations, but I welcome any system that undermines the petrodollar and the financial advantage( read tyranny ) of the US.


BRICS is going nowhere fast. If its members had any faith in it Brazil, South Africa and India would not have their own more succesful group IBSA without China or Russia. Something China complains about because it shows no faith in BRICS which China sees as its group.

As for Russian in Ukraine, I just wonder how many Russians Ukraine can kill before Russia admits they are there and does something about it. I suppose just pretending they do not exist keeps Russia from having to react and thus bringing more punishment from the west. And it is not like the Russian media is going be going to missing Russian soldiers familys and asking any questions.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Here is the info regarding the convoy arriving at the border and Russian forces continuing in to Ukraine without the convoy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


pics taken on the ukrainian soil or it didn't happen.

without hard proof such story is worth as much as a claim that obama is a lizard eating kittens. anyone can claim anything, including the journalists and politicians, which are more often than not a bunch of liars that should hang on the nearest tree.

but you already know that.
why your own thread then, and why bring it here? can we for once limit ourselves to the FACTS and consolidate them in one place, instead of spreading the fairytales of the powers that be, without pointing out the obvious BS?

right. pointing out the obvious BS doesn't fit your agenda.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: MessageforAll
Now your just being rude,

Rude was you accusing me of running an agenda when the info I posted comes directly from BRICS.



originally posted by: MessageforAll
I replied to another member in this thread after he asked me something. You copied your entire thread here, which has nothing to do with OP.

no you didn't. You invoked brics here - www.abovetopsecret.com... Prior to your first use of BRICS, no one else mentioned it.




originally posted by: MessageforAll
If it didn't support my agenda I wouldn't have thanked you for posting the info. My agenda lol, read my comments I'l be the first to admit my mistakes or look at both sides. Unlike you who are hellbent on spreading one version of the conflict and never ever suggesting your truth might be flawed.

And now this thread is getting way off-topic, great.


From the latest info update -

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine said on Friday it had destroyed part of a Russian military convoy that entered onto its territory in an incursion that has sent cross-border tensions rocketing.

NATO accused Russia of active involvement in the "destabilisation" of eastern Ukraine, where pro-Kremlin separatists have been fighting against Kiev for four months.

The two countries have also been wrangling for days over a Russian convoy that Moscow says is carrying humanitarian aid for besieged rebel-held cities but which Kiev suspects could be a "Trojan horse" to provide military help to the insurgents.

Fears that the border clash could spill into all-out war between Kiev and Moscow sent major share markets tumbling across Europe and the United States.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron that government artillery had destroyed a "considerable part" of a small military convoy that entered the country, the presidency said in a statement.

The European Union demanded that Russia "put an immediate stop to any form of border hostilities, in particular to the flow of arms, military advisers and armed personnel into the conflict region, and to withdraw its forces from the border."

French President Francois Hollande called on Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and for both sides to try to de-escalate the "very high tensions," while Britain summoned Moscow's ambassador to "clarify" the situation and a Cameron spokesman said Russia needs to show "a willingness to find a peaceful solution to the conflict".

Moscow's defence ministry dismissed the alleged convoy as a "phantom", its latest denial of Western accusations that it is funnelling weapons to the pro-Russia separatists who launched an insurgency against Kiev in April.


Info above is from link a few posts up.. To get it back on topic.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: Fylgje
The Zionists in Ukraine just made the stupidest move possible. Looks like their little coup that the US helped with is history. This could be a scary situation. And for what??


Wait.... Zionists? I thought they were "Nazi's"... Or have they now morphed into some super-Nazi regime that now loves Jews? The name calling of the Government of the Ukraine get's weirder every day...



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: jedi_hamster
Speaking of BS off topic comments feel free to point out in your post anything that is on topic...

As for your pics or it didn't happen bs its getting childish. Apparently its all pro Russian supporters have left when trying to dismiss relevant info.

Here is a concept - post facts which refute the claims being made. You have reports stating media personnel witnessed the Russian military vehicles crossing into Ukraine. You have the drivers of the convoys who are giving inconsistent statements about whether they are paid or are doing it for free, not to mention red cross officials who cant provide detailed info of Russia's supposed aid convoy.

You have Russia diverting the aid convoy to a border crossing controlled by rebels, which violated the agreement with Ukraine.

All on the record by both sides.

So feel free to support your no pics claims.



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