Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

a reply to: stumason
You forgot to mention the much higher incomes.

a reply to: stumason
Cant believe I am typing this but agree with you on this one. Was not a default on government bonds.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: MortlitantiFMMJ

And massive taxation levels to boot - something you conveniently missed out there. Not to mention the prices for many things is so much higher than in the UK.

The UK could have those same levels, but it would require an enormous amount of spending with equally enormous tax hikes. As it stands, the UK isn't actually that far behind any of them and I'd rather decide how to spend my money myself, than have the Government take it off me before I've even had the chance.

It's a bit misleading to hold these countries up as some sort of shining beacon - they are not - it is simply the result of a population willing to accept extremely high taxation in return for those services. There is no appetite in the UK for those levels of taxation, regardless of any benefits it might bring.

Ireland is not a high tax country and consistently outperforms the UK and thats despite the current recession. But nevertheless, your argument is ridiculous. You'd rather live in a poorer country with worse health, education, happiness, safetyetc. if the government took slightly less tax off you?

a reply to: midicon

I don't want to be part of that set up either.

I don't blame you, neither do I.

We won't have the Euro though...

But maybe that's the price they will charge for admission?

.....although maybe that's why Salmond wants currency union.

Could well be.
But shouldn't he at least be coming clean about it?

There is so much confusion, misinformation and downright lies being spouted about the currency issue, by all sides, that no-one seems to have a clue just what may or may not be happening - surely more the reason to have a Plan B, C, D......

Hardly ideal circumstances for a newly independent country, certainly bit of a risk and definitely a leap into the dark unknown.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: stumason
You forgot to mention the much higher incomes.

Hmmm - GDP per capita is not really a good reflection on average incomes. Kuwait has average pay of $81k per person, but clearly not everyone gets this.

Going on media pay -where 50% earn more and 50% earn less - the UK actually is higher than Norway - £2080 vs £2053

a reply to: MortlitantiFMMJ

Ireland "outperforms" the UK on what, exactly?

I am genuinely interested, as we have massive immigration from Ireland - they have a major issue keeping their youth there - and actually more Irish live in England than Ireland.

If it was so good, why do they come?

a reply to: stumason
Source please as wikipedia gives Norway much higher mean and median.

a reply to: stumason
According to migration watch. The right wing group that keeps telling us we are being flooded by migrants there is net flow from the UK to Ireland. Admittedly does not break down by age.

a reply to: stumason

If the numbers of young people chasing work/living in the UK is higher then I would be interested in the source...just so I could see it for myself.
...I would still support Ireland over France or Italy in the 6Nations rugby.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I went to Wiki as well - the map implied the UK had a higher median income.

a reply to: grainofsand
Would support North Korea over Italy if they could play. Damn it even support England over Italy.
Haven't forgiven them for drubbing they gave us a few years back.

a reply to: stumason
To be fair the map does seem to give different data than the table. Can we agree wiki is a pants source?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: stumason
According to migration watch. The right wing group that keeps telling us we are being flooded by migrants there is net flow from the UK to Ireland. Admittedly does not break down by age.

Can I see this? I am curious as there is little tracking of Irish migration as many hold British passports and it is a free travel area, so there are no border checks. I am wandering how they have come to this conclusion, especially as Ireland#s economy is still a bit sick - maybe it is older Irish returning after making money here?

For the record, I am of Irish stock myself...they get everywhere...

a reply to: ScepticScot
Haha! Fair one fella, I remember it myself!
...but you surely get my point, we are a curious mix of islands to the West of mainland Europe.
We will always see our own links with each other between each other...I don't actually care when the ROI was created, I will alaways prefer to be sat at a bar with an Irishman over a Frenchman...and shared language is not my motivating reason.

*Edit*
I feel more 'Bro' with anyone from islands to the West of mainland Europe than anywhere else.
My island is large but many are not, so lets form a new union, and confidently, take the piss a bit in the EU with our shared self-belief from thousands of years working as a team on our different parts of the islands.

...if we embraced our 'Irish and British Isles' tribe a bit more I reckon we'd kick more arse than as individual tribes on neighbouring islands who happen to live next to each other.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: stumason
To be fair the map does seem to give different data than the table. Can we agree wiki is a pants source?

Fair enough

On most things, it is fine, but on this, it is confusing!

To be fair though, I have just checked the OCED site and it did show a higher median income of Norwegians over the UK, so I concede that point. It is still a squiffy stat to use mind you, as the populations are vastly different and it doesn't take much to shift averages in a small sample size.

a reply to: stumason
Cant post link as on phone. If you google net uk Ireland migration it should come up.
They do make same point re open borders and expain their calculation. Think it sounds unlikely to be honest unless is returning Irish as you say. Only skim read so let me know what you think as is interesting if true.

a reply to: stumason
True would need to see the sample size or if taken from tax data. A purchasing power index is probably best comparison will see if can find a good one.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I did do that search and didn't find much that really answered the question on the first pass - I'll dig more.

It would be interesting to see how it's worked out, as only a couple of years ago, young Irish were flooding the UK after Ireland's collapse.

a reply to: grainofsand
Depends on the topic of conversation.
Beer - Englishman
Wine - Frenchman
Rugby - Welshman
Women - Irishmen

a reply to: stumason
Suspect you are right and is cyclical migration. People moving back home.